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Post by Joey on Apr 5, 2010 9:11:29 GMT -5
Okay this is my own personal belief, and I have tried to stay out of the religion discussion as much as possible, but I have decided that I will no longer do that. So without further ado, why I think Jesus is God, based on a scietific way of thinking, deduction.
To start off, this is not the thread to discuss if there is a God. I firmly believe that there is a God and thats what I'm going off.
Jesus was a great teacher, and he often preached about being the Son of God. He died and supposedly raised from the dead three days later. Okay we have the basics down.
Now from that we can say three truthful things, that Jesus was either God, a liar(and his Apostles were too for that matter), or he was crazy. Now I hope we can all agree that whatever Jesus was, he was not crazy. No crazy man could become the single greatest leader in history, gathering so many people with his SENISIBLE teachings. So now we have God, liar, Crazyman.
The idea goes that after christ died, a few of his apostels ran to his tomb, attacked the guards, and took the body away. This would mean that Jesus and his apostels were all liars. This could make sense, except for one thing. If Jesus really hadn't risen, and all the apostles hadn't seen him, as scripture says, then why did they do this? They wanted to pull the biggest hoax in history, and start a religion off of a lie? Well that might be possible, but why would they die for it? All of the apostels died a maryter's death, except for John who was exiled to an island. The apostle Peter was hung on a cross upside down, as he asked to be. Why would a man ask for more pain and suffering to die for a joke? And Bartholomew, he was skinned alive. I dont know about you but I think most people would tell the truth at the first shave. You can live up to 24 hours after being skinned, with all of that muscle and other things exposed to the air. Why would a man go through this horrible death for a joke? Thats not the end, the others were beheaded, hung on crosses. All for a joke? If it was a joke one of them would have surely told the truth. But there was no truth. Becuase they all died for Christ, who, according to our options we started out with, and using deduction has come down to God, Liar, Crazyman.
So thats why I believe that Jesus Christ is God. Now what do you think?
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boprock
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Embracing the weird
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Post by boprock on Apr 5, 2010 10:24:41 GMT -5
All your "facts" come from the bible, a bible written after the death of Jesus Also you claim no crazy man could lead people well... Stalin suffered severe paranoia. And Hitler had alzheimer's both lead millions of people
Also its quite possible Jesus tricked everyone the average IQ 2000 years ago was way below our own and people were gullible, very gullible If a man told you he had talked to a burning bush and that the bush was god, you'd think he was drunk Jesus a clever conman could have fooled hundreds
Many possibilities i dare say Also claiming Jesus is god isn't exactly new
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Post by newschooled on Apr 5, 2010 12:05:09 GMT -5
Oddly enough, the divinity of Christ is a concept that wasn't even proposed until hundreds of years after his death. It was ultimately 'decided' upon after many council debates of the early version of what we know know as the Vatican. (Similar to the council of trent)
...Ultimately, the decision to legislate the divinity of Christ coincided with the councils of the time that also chose (over time) the books that would make up the current bible.
I'm just saying, implications suggest that the idea of Christ being divine was largely in part, a politically driven campaign.
I'm not arguing the point one way or another, just citing some finer points of Roman Catholic history.
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Post by Lex on Apr 5, 2010 12:20:55 GMT -5
Jesus was a great teacher, but he wasn't God. There's no evidence for it. All you do is set up a false trichotomy.
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Post by Joey on Apr 5, 2010 12:23:34 GMT -5
And there's no evidence that you're not a computer.
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Post by newschooled on Apr 5, 2010 12:24:15 GMT -5
Jesus is referred to in context, as a prophet in both Islamic and Jewish scripture, but not as divine.
Please correct me if I'm wrong; I know the Bible a little bit, but I'm no expert - I don't recall anywhere in the Bible that says "JESUS IS GOD." Son of God, granted - But not GOD.
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Post by Joey on Apr 5, 2010 12:27:04 GMT -5
Yes but where is Mohammad in the Jewish and catholic bible, does that mean he didn't exist?
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Post by newschooled on Apr 5, 2010 12:29:35 GMT -5
Not necessarily, Muhammad lived 600 years after the death of Jesus. It was just different timing.
For example, you and I aren't in the Bible, but we exist, right?
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Post by Lex on Apr 5, 2010 12:31:22 GMT -5
And there's no evidence that you're not a computer. Actually there is, you're just unable to access it at the moment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 12:34:13 GMT -5
Yes but where is Mohammad in the Jewish and catholic bible, does that mean he didn't exist? heh, sorry, but I gotta say FAIL here The Quran (is that right spelling?) was written about 500 years after our timecount (Christ if you will), so naturally it would be impossible for him to be mentioned in either the Bible or the Thora. There is evidence of Mohammed's existance, don't ask me what exactly, I'm not sure. The only "evidence" of Jesus' existance is the Shroud of Turin and while that shows an image of a man, there's no way to tell that it was Jesus, there are even more indications that it isn't than that it is (certain rests of plants etc which didn't exist in Jesus' time in Israël). But, I do believe he existed, but was nothing more than a good prophet..
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Yokailo
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Post by Yokailo on Apr 5, 2010 12:44:28 GMT -5
I do believe Jesus existed, and most people do. But does it really matter that much, whether Jesus was divine or not? He was a brilliant speaker, a great teacher and a good man. He is inspiring nonetheless- does it matter if he could transform water into wine? Whether he could walk on water? It's just stuff that is impossible, for everyone, and there's just no reason to believe he could do things like that.. I think his incredible "be GOOD"-talent is enough to follow him, without all the stories - true or not - around him.
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Post by Joey on Apr 5, 2010 12:50:46 GMT -5
I do believe Jesus existed, and most people do. But does it really matter that much, whether Jesus was divine or not? He was a brilliant speaker, a great teacher and a good man. He is inspiring nonetheless- does it matter if he could transform water into wine? Whether he could walk on water? It's just stuff that is impossible, for everyone, and there's just no reason to believe he could do things like that.. I think his incredible "be GOOD"-talent is enough to follow him, without all the stories - true or not - around him. I agree, you don't beleive he was god, and I do. That's it. I believe it was Thomas Aquinas that said something along the lines of "even if it wasn't true(jesus's divinity) it has lead a whole group of people to live virtuous lives."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 12:58:10 GMT -5
but sadly it also leads to extremism in this day and age..
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Yokailo
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Post by Yokailo on Apr 5, 2010 13:00:22 GMT -5
I do believe Jesus existed, and most people do. But does it really matter that much, whether Jesus was divine or not? He was a brilliant speaker, a great teacher and a good man. He is inspiring nonetheless- does it matter if he could transform water into wine? Whether he could walk on water? It's just stuff that is impossible, for everyone, and there's just no reason to believe he could do things like that.. I think his incredible "be GOOD"-talent is enough to follow him, without all the stories - true or not - around him. I agree, you don't beleive he was god, and I do. That's it. I believe it was Thomas Aquinas that said something along the lines of "even if it wasn't true(jesus's divinity) it has lead a whole group of people to live virtuous lives." Then there's no reason for a debate, is there? It's just something you know you won't start thinking differently about, the people who don't believe he is have absolutely no reason to start thinking Jesus is God, so there's no way anything's going to change. Nobody's feelings should be hurt.
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Post by Joey on Apr 5, 2010 13:01:09 GMT -5
And Athiests don't have extremists too?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 13:06:06 GMT -5
And Athiests don't have extremists too? where did I say that? dude chill out ok, I'm not against religion or anything.. I'm just saying that it's not like Jesus was perfect, those were just the things written down about him.. If you worship someone, you're not gonna say "Hey, look he's so ugly" or "Dude he sucks at bowling" but you are going to say "Oh he's such a friendly person" and that's what people will remember..
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Yokailo
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Post by Yokailo on Apr 5, 2010 13:10:07 GMT -5
And Athiests don't have extremists too? where did I say that? dude chill out ok, I'm not against religion or anything.. I'm just saying that it's not like Jesus was perfect, those were just the things written down about him.. If you worship someone, you're not gonna say "Hey, look he's so ugly" or "Dude he sucks at bowling" but you are going to say "Oh he's such a friendly person" and that's what people will remember.. Lol. I do think he sucked at bowling, though. 1. He lived in times when they didn't know bowling. 2. Even if he was God's Son, he wouldn't know something as trivial as BOWLING. o.O You do have a point, though. You only write down the good stuff, and you leave out anything 'human' - because that's the things people know already. If you want to write a successful book, you shouldn't write down: "And then He went to the toilet, and the disciples waited for him to return".. Because that'd just be awkward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 13:20:18 GMT -5
where did I say that? dude chill out ok, I'm not against religion or anything.. I'm just saying that it's not like Jesus was perfect, those were just the things written down about him.. If you worship someone, you're not gonna say "Hey, look he's so ugly" or "Dude he sucks at bowling" but you are going to say "Oh he's such a friendly person" and that's what people will remember.. Lol. I do think he sucked at bowling, though. 1. He lived in times when they didn't know bowling. 2. Even if he was God's Son, he wouldn't know something as trivial as BOWLING. o.O You do have a point, though. You only write down the good stuff, and you leave out anything 'human' - because that's the things people know already. If you want to write a successful book, you shouldn't write down: "And then He went to the toilet, and the disciples waited for him to return".. Because that'd just be awkward. exactly
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boprock
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Post by boprock on Apr 5, 2010 13:31:50 GMT -5
Name one atheist whos blown up a building in the name of the big bang
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Post by Joey on Apr 5, 2010 13:33:25 GMT -5
And Athiests don't have extremists too? where did I say that? dude chill out ok, I'm not against religion or anything.. I'm just saying that it's not like Jesus was perfect, those were just the things written down about him.. If you worship someone, you're not gonna say "Hey, look he's so ugly" or "Dude he sucks at bowling" but you are going to say "Oh he's such a friendly person" and that's what people will remember.. I'm not mad at anyone, and I was just stating what I believe and hoping to start a civilized discussion.
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