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Post by click3tyclick on Jul 13, 2010 11:05:05 GMT -5
Meh... I'm tired of all the complaints about us changing the world. Why do you guys think we need to change the world right now? Why do you have to force it so much? I didn't come here to change the world, personally. Maybe some of you did. I think you probably came to the wrong place. We're less than a hundred KIDS on an Internet forum. If you think we can change the world on some massive scale, you're out of your freaking mind. Good to know. Fuck this place.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 13, 2010 11:25:35 GMT -5
why are you here bree? more importantly, why are you an admin? seriously, are you just in to because you're bored? why would you want to be an admin on a forum you care nothing about?
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Post by krzych32 on Jul 13, 2010 15:13:30 GMT -5
any other group of people that wants to change the world first have a goal, then they form themselves around it, and then do something about it. Here, we have a group of people already formed, but no real goal to go after. And I don't see "changing the world" or "ending world suck" as any realistic goal.
"Give me liberty, or give me any other cause to fight for" -Me, right now
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Post by Breepop on Jul 13, 2010 15:14:50 GMT -5
Changing the world isn't the sort of thing that just happens. It has to be forced, or it can't happen. That may be true, but it's far from what I meant. You can't /force/ a group of people not able or ready to change the world to change the world. They have to be willing to do it... I think it's clear that, unless someone comes up with some brilliant solution where we can all EASILY change the world, not many people here are willing. Think impossibly big! I really think that we can do something great, especially with how zealous some of our members are. And even if there's less than 100 of us, so what? I was in an organization that was less than 50 members and raised $15,000 for charity in 7 months. Why can't we do something great as well? And I'm not saying that we need to do something HUGE right now.. But we should be working on small ways to change the world. Yeah, it's great to think impossibly big and all, but when thinking impossibly big is the actual thing discouraging us from getting anything done (no one wants to do any project unless it's some sort of instant solution to world hunger), that's not good. Okay, you addressed the number of us. Cool. What about the fact that we're, for the most part, a bunch of kids? The majority of which can't even VOTE yet? What about the fact that we connect through the Internet? Am I incorrect in assuming this group you speak of was a local thing? Part of your high school or something? Am I incorrect in assuming that the members of this group got some sort of benefit from being in the organization (receiving a salary or a cool little note on a future resume or application to college)? Am I incorrect in assuming that there were several designated, adult leaders? Am I incorrect in assuming that it was part of these leader's JOBS to rally people to raise money? Yeah, pretty sure I'm right somewhere in there. :/ Again, I'm not saying we need to do something huge right away. But we could start doing small things to make a difference. I'm not overestimating us. Such as...? I am doing something. This is me doing something. There's only so much I can do on my own. But if this doesn't work out, I'll make sure to remember your direction. Fair enough. I can see how this might encourage others to get into shape and do something. But I think you can do something more, even if you are just one person. Why aren't you off scouring the Interwebs for things we might be able to do? Or racking your brain about a cool idea that we are capable of? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if you ACTUALLY have some world changing project, that would inspire a lot more people than writing a rather long letter just complaining... why are you here bree? more importantly, why are you an admin? seriously, are you just in to because you're bored? why would you want to be an admin on a forum you care nothing about? Why do you assume so much!? O____O I'm here because I love forums. I love community. I love the Internet and the people I meet on it. I love the diversity. I love the knowledge and the opportunity to absorb that knowledge. I love the values. I love the idea that maybe, just maybe, I'll have a sort of epiphany that changes my outlook on life completely, and makes me a better person. I'm here because I want to be changed. I'm an admin because I'm awesome. Silly question is silly, wittle bomb! I am quite bored. Raise your hand if you frequent this forum when you're bored! owait, that's everyone! And seriously? I don't care? lol your assuming makes me want to stab a baby. How is saying, "I didn't come here to change the world" translate to "I don't care about this forum." to you? YOU NO SENSE MAKE.
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Post by chelseeyuh on Jul 13, 2010 15:38:09 GMT -5
That may be true, but it's far from what I meant. You can't /force/ a group of people not able or ready to change the world to change the world. They have to be willing to do it... I think it's clear that, unless someone comes up with some brilliant solution where we can all EASILY change the world, not many people here are willing. This is a fair claim. There are many people who will only help if they can easily do it. But I'm not one of those people, and I know there are other people who are also willing to put in the effort to make a difference. This post was for those people, to try to remind and inspire them to work towards our goal. Okay, you addressed the number of us. Cool. What about the fact that we're, for the most part, a bunch of kids? The majority of which can't even VOTE yet? What about the fact that we connect through the Internet? Am I incorrect in assuming this group you speak of was a local thing? Part of your high school or something? Am I incorrect in assuming that the members of this group got some sort of benefit from being in the organization (receiving a salary or a cool little note on a future resume or application to college)? Am I incorrect in assuming that there were several designated, adult leaders? Am I incorrect in assuming that it was part of these leader's JOBS to rally people to raise money? Yeah, pretty sure I'm right somewhere in there. :/ Most of your assumptions were wrong. It's true that we had some adult leaders, but that's not to say that they did all of the work. A lot of the kids did a lot more than I ever could have imagined. No one got any sort of reward for doing it. We all did it because we felt adamantly about the cause and wanted to make a difference. Such as...? Fair enough. I can see how this might encourage others to get into shape and do something. But I think you can do something more, even if you are just one person. Why aren't you off scouring the Interwebs for things we might be able to do? Or racking your brain about a cool idea that we are capable of? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if you ACTUALLY have some world changing project, that would inspire a lot more people than writing a rather long letter just complaining... For both of these, right now I'm working on the manifesto. I want to use that as a basis for what to do next, what issue to address with whatever project we choose to create. And if I'm making a project for the Moon, I'd like other people to have input in what the project is so they'll support it and help out. I have some ideas, but I'm not going to actually start a project until I'm done with the manifesto and have time to dedicate to a project.
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Post by Sean on Jul 13, 2010 15:56:50 GMT -5
I will most certainly be taking a bigger role in the community soon,
lets get this ball rolling.
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Post by Benyamin on Jul 13, 2010 16:31:01 GMT -5
It's kind of funny, chelsea's sig, what chelsea and bree are debating about...
Get it?It's funny cuz it says... never mind that's overused
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 13, 2010 18:19:10 GMT -5
well...thanks for clearing that up then...i'm just a little amazed at your indifference. the impression i got was that if we never did jack SHIRT...ever...you wouldn't care.
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theeverbored
Meteor
if a nerd has no avatar, does she still have a face?
Posts: 81
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Post by theeverbored on Jul 14, 2010 3:08:02 GMT -5
Meh... I'm tired of all the complaints about us changing the world. Why do you guys think we need to change the world right now? Why do you have to force it so much? I didn't come here to change the world, personally. Maybe some of you did. I think you probably came to the wrong place. We're less than a hundred KIDS on an Internet forum. If you think we can change the world on some massive scale, you're out of your freaking mind. However, with the unusually high percentage of members who DO have intentions to change the world, I think we will be able to one day. I doubt that will be any time soon... if that doubt pisses you off, leave. You're over estimating us. "Change yourself before you change the world." Hate to break it to you, but we haven't changed yet. We're not ready to change the world. I feel like a lot of you are looking for a quick, easy way to ZOMG CHANGE ZE WORLD. Are you freaking kidding me? Changing the world is neither quick nor easy. 8 months is nothing. Stop being so gorram impatient... it will happen when it happens. If you can't wait, seriously... just do something about it (BESIDES COMPLAINING), or leave. Really? I mean really, isn't that what SPOTM was created for? "We, the PogoTribe, will... 1. Use our awesomeness for good. 2. Embrace our "inner weird". 3. Have fun. 4. Think impossibly big. 5. Grow out. 6. Grow strong. 7. Stand by what we know to be true. 8. Accept that we don't know everything. 9. Welcome ALL who stand by these values." --Dan Brown www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRzpQrZo-TEwww.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPnLRxblSUActually just skip down to this video and watch it, really... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8gKvYoQPMI believe in this ^ video and what it stands for. I believe in the purpose and ideals Dan was fighting for. It was crazy, and we are just a bunch of kids on the internet, but what the hell is wrong with that? Why can't a bunch of crazy kids on the internet do something world changing? I'm in fact trying to do so. I also want the tribe on SPOTM to help because that's kinda the reason a lot of us are here. I don't understand why you don't seem to like it Bree. I understand if you don't have the time or whatever, but why do you seem so against it?
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Post by Speckley on Jul 14, 2010 3:21:09 GMT -5
theeverbored: Hey, there. Bree's not saying that "a bunch of crazy kids on the internet" can't do anything world changing. She's saying that she doesn't think that we can do a HUGE WORLD-CHANGING PROJECT right now. Please don't take it the wrong way... Speaking from personal experience, Bree can be somewhat critical about these sorts of things. However, that does not mean that she cares nothing about the tribe, its values, or its (eventual) goals. I mean, look! Look at this: I'm here because I love forums. I love community. I love the Internet and the people I meet on it. I love the diversity. I love the knowledge and the opportunity to absorb that knowledge. I love the values. I love the idea that maybe, just maybe, I'll have a sort of epiphany that changes my outlook on life completely, and makes me a better person. I'm here because I want to be changed. Also, just for the record: However, with the unusually high percentage of members who DO have intentions to change the world, I think we will be able to one day. I doubt that will be any time soon...
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theeverbored
Meteor
if a nerd has no avatar, does she still have a face?
Posts: 81
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Post by theeverbored on Jul 14, 2010 3:49:14 GMT -5
But if we keep thinking like this nothing will get done. I we're getting more momentum towards doing something but it's not going to get anywhere with the negativity. I want to understand where people are coming from. Why someone would join a forum about making a difference if they don't seem to want to be apart of this change. Bree, I'm not saying it's going to be easy, or that we're guaranteed to succeed, I'm saying we really can do something. We NEED to pull together and try. If someone doesn't want to help, or doesn't have the time, or doesn't think that this is their thing it's fine, but enough with the negativity.
I'm really not trying to come across as mean, really. I just believe we can do something here.
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Post by mashuga31 on Jul 14, 2010 4:00:55 GMT -5
I feel like lately the Moon has been in a state of total disarray and I wanted to address all of the problems that I see in the hopes that everyone will take a critical look at the tribe and be motivated to try to fix these things. let's (: Firstly, there’s the matter of doing something to change the world. Frankly, in the 8 months that SPOTM has existed, we have done nothing to change the world. Most projects here are just something fun to pass time or try to bring the community closer. Sure, there are many people who just sort of joined the Moon out of curiosity or because it sounded fun, but there are also many of us who are here because we want to make a difference in the world and for whatever reason, this place seemed like it would enable us to do so. And now, looking back at all of the time we’ve been here, and realizing that nothing has been achieved, we’re disappointed. Some of us aren’t even sure whether or not we want to stay here any longer because of how disappointed we are in this community. And yes, I do mean “we,” because I’m not the only one who feels this way. I’m not trying to point fingers or blame anyone for the fact that we haven’t done anything to change the world yet; I just want to remind this community has a goal, and as of right now, we have done nothing to reach that goal. This is what I've been trying to work towards, but every time I suggest a worldly project no one seems interested. We have to start small. In a not-so-obvious segue, this brings me to the triads. As some of you may know, I really dislike the triads. Maybe I would like them more if they were run differently, but as of right now, I don’t think they are contributing as much as Dan had expected them to. I will admit that the triads are useful because they help assimilate people into the tribe and make people feel like they belong, but even this is a stretch, as most triads fail, and even those that succeed don’t usually stay as close as they should. But my main issue with the triads is the triad projects. When I was in the first generation of triads, our instructions were to make a project which would benefit the Moon. If you consider only the number of active members, SPOTM isn’t that big, and there’s only so much we can do to make it better. Most projects just end up being creative, but not really useful. Even projects that benefit the Moon by bringing people together are of limited usefulness. If we’re here to change the world, we need projects that will benefit the world, not the Moon. These projects shouldn’t be so insular; they should do something to reach out and make a difference in the world. I’m not trying to single out the triads. As I said before, all projects have been like this. But with the triads, they are specifically directed to do this, and I really dislike that. I've never put any faith in the triads so i agree with you 100% on that one. I also dislike that the triads are so formal. I know that usually you need structure in order to make things succeed, but I honestly think the triads could be more effective if they didn’t. The structure of the triads makes it so that all of the triads in one generation are releasing projects at the same time. If these projects need volunteers to help out, it is likely that they will all fail. It’s just not possible for 6 or 8 or however many projects there are to all get the number of volunteers they need. There are only so many people who can help out, and we can’t expect everyone to be a part of every project. Once again, i've never reall put too much faith in the triads. I’ve said this many times, and I still stand by my assertion that people should be forming unofficial triads. I feel like these would be infinitely more successful than the official triads. An unofficial triad will be doing what they do because they truly want to, not just because they feel like they need to be in a triad. And if they can set their own deadlines, they won’t feel stressed and end up hating the process, as, at least from my own experience, I know can happen. You seem really down to earth in a sense and I was actually hoping to form some kind of super tag team extraordinaire thing with you. Maybe we could find a third person and start now? Or just do it by ourselves. I also want to address the recent drama that has been going on on the Moon. I’m fully aware that we can’t all love each other and we don’t all want to hold hands and sing “Kumbaya.” That’s fine. But that doesn’t mean we need to constantly attack each other, either. If you don’t like someone else’s ideas, you can politely disagree. We don’t need to lower ourselves to name-calling and mindless insults. We don’t need to revive old conflicts. We don’t need to judge each other based on a few poor choices they’ve made. The way some people have been conducting themselves lately has shocked me. We don’t need to like each other, but we do need to be civil. Every family has drama. =P Lastly, I want to address the secret project. I’m not going to say my opinion, because this isn’t the place for that, and if you really care you can go find it. But I just want to say that if you don’t like the project, you’re disappointed, you feel like it won’t be effective, etc., you don’t need to throw a hissy fit. You’re on SPOTM and you don’t like Dan Brown’s secret project? Big freakin’ deal. This isn’t a Dan Brown fan club. We’re going to continue to exist as a community regardless of what Dan does. I didn’t join the Moon so that I could be a part of his project. His project shouldn’t have a major effect on your activity on the Moon, so get over your disappointment and move on with whatever else you have going on here. Even if you absolutely despise the project, you should respect Dan’s attempt to show the world a new way of doing things and not try to bring him down. But really, I don’t think anyone hates the project. The people that are really against it have said that they completely agree with me. I’m being civil and respectful despite my opinion of the project. Why does anyone else need to start drama just because they don’t like what some video blogger plans to do for the next year? Getting angry about it is completely futile. Absolutely. Edit: Hey Sean, you wanna join mine and chelsea's unofficial super group?
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 4:00:57 GMT -5
Really? I mean really, isn't that what SPOTM was created for? "We, the PogoTribe, will... 1. Use our awesomeness for good. 2. Embrace our "inner weird". 3. Have fun. 4. Think impossibly big. 5. Grow out. 6. Grow strong. 7. Stand by what we know to be true. 8. Accept that we don't know everything. 9. Welcome ALL who stand by these values." --Dan Brown www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRzpQrZo-TEwww.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPnLRxblSUActually just skip down to this video and watch it, really... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8gKvYoQPMI believe in this ^ video and what it stands for. I believe in the purpose and ideals Dan was fighting for. It was crazy, and we are just a bunch of kids on the internet, but what the hell is wrong with that? Why can't a bunch of crazy kids on the internet do something world changing? I'm in fact trying to do so. I also want the tribe on SPOTM to help because that's kinda the reason a lot of us are here. I don't understand why you don't seem to like it Bree. I understand if you don't have the time or whatever, but why do you seem so against it? I really feel like you didn't read my post, and instead just took a couple of negative lines and ran with them, making bad assumptions along the way. but k. SPOTM was created so we could all communicate to better define ourselves. Not sure why you're linking to ancient videos by Dan (who's opinion I hold no higher than my own, your's, or Chelsea's, I might add) where he attempts to define us. No. We're defining us. And we're not done... clearly. I see nothing in the values that says we should be epicly changing the world...? In fact, what I see is a bunch of values that are aimed at making our COMMUNITY stronger. And that's what I'm interested in. When we change ourselves, we change our community, and then we can change the world (if the community so desires, which it does). There's nothing wrong with being a bunch of kids on the Internet. In fact, I'm a firm believer that a bunch of kids on the Internet can do... well... anything (look at 4chan!). Unfortunately, we're not that bunch yet. We still need to change ourselves and our community. Um... I'm not anti-world changing or anything. I'm anti-FREAKING THE FUCK OUT BECAUSE OMFG WE'VE BEEN HERE 8 FUCKING MONTHS AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED AND WE SHOULD CHANGE THE WORLD RIGHT NOW I'M SO IMPATIENT WHY ISN'T THIS EASIER WHY DO WE SUCK SO MUCH WHY ISN'T *THAT KID* DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT? WHY AREN'T *THE ADMINS* DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT? WHY ISN'T *DAN* DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT? WHY DO *I* HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT? WTF. Yeah. I really freaking hate that. I didn't join this forum to change the world. I'm not even on this forum right now to change the world. I'm not ready to change the world. I know this. Maybe, with the help of this community, I can one day be ready to change the world. But this community isn't ready to change the world right now, either. This community needs to recognize that. The only way we're going to change the world without first changing ourselves is if someone finds an incredibly easy way to do so. Good luck. Keep in mind, though: I am not saying we need some sort of massive, unthinkable change (we're actually way, way closer than a lot of other communities). The change could be as small as gaining one member (a member that would no doubt have to be ready to change the world themselves, and equipped with the tools and ideas to do so). I have no clue. But I know there needs to be some sort of change. I know this because people here DO want to change the world... but just can't. And haven't. Since the point of my last post completely flew over your head, let me sum it up for you (for like the eight time) so it does not happen again: Change yourself before you change the world. Change yourself before you change the world. Change yourself before you change the world.
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 4:03:51 GMT -5
But if we keep thinking like this nothing will get done. I we're getting more momentum towards doing something but it's not going to get anywhere with the negativity. I want to understand where people are coming from. Why someone would join a forum about making a difference if they don't seem to want to be apart of this change. Bree, I'm not saying it's going to be easy, or that we're guaranteed to succeed, I'm saying we really can do something. We NEED to pull together and try. If someone doesn't want to help, or doesn't have the time, or doesn't think that this is their thing it's fine, but enough with the negativity. I'm really not trying to come across as mean, really. I just believe we can do something here. Um, it sounds like you agree with me? I'm going on about how annoying it is that everyone is so negative and complainy about us not changing the world RIGHT NOW. ... what is this i don't even
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 4:08:13 GMT -5
be specific.
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Post by mashuga31 on Jul 14, 2010 4:09:21 GMT -5
Hey bree, maybe you shouldn't be getting so worked up about this y'know? So we wanna change the world. So a little kid wanted to be an actor. So he did. So a man wanted to win the olympics. so he did. So a scientist dreamt of leading society into a better tomarrow. So he did. Let's face it. You can't stop those who dream from dreaming and you can't stop those who do from doing.
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theeverbored
Meteor
if a nerd has no avatar, does she still have a face?
Posts: 81
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Post by theeverbored on Jul 14, 2010 4:17:24 GMT -5
lol I think we're fighting while somehow agreeing...
I honestly just couldn't understand where you stood Bree. I'm glad I finally know where you are coming from. I do agree that we need to change ourselves before we change the world but what does that mean? I think changing ourselves is something we do privately, sort of in real life, but we're here on a forum of people. What's the point of being with people if all we're doing is focusing on ourselves? While we change ourselves we should be changing the community. That seems to be the point of coming together. So that's what I meant by, "why aren't we doing something?" As a community we've grown very far in the last few months but it feels like we've hit a wall and need to push for more change, more development, and more experimentation.
Again I hope I didn't offend you. Steph
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 4:27:29 GMT -5
community building is all well and good, and it is definitely important. but up to a point. building a community for the sake of building a community is circular. what is the point...we become a strong community...so we can become a stronger community...so we can become a stronger community so we can...? *coughchangetheworldcough* you see what i did there? i gave a reason for the community building. so while you may be right that we MAY need to continue building our community, you must understand that we DO need a goal, and a purpose to focus on. otherwise the community building is pointless.
we are building this community. we have been building this community. you've been here for the past eight months. you've seen it. but we must not lose sight of our goal and purpose. what sets us apart from other online communities and forums? why are we working so hard to build this individual community? because we have this purpose and goal, because we want to change our world. after eight months of focusing only on the means and not the ends...who can blame people for becoming a little restless? who can blame people for wanting to begin acting upon our purpose? is it really inconceivable that we should want to achieve that goal?
you may be satisfied in just building a community where it is fun to hang out, and where due to our bonds we may end up doing something amazing, but for some people it is simply not enough. for some people leaving that to chance is simply unacceptable. some of us feel a need to take an active role in the fulfillment of our purpose and goal. for some people, a short term focus is not enough. some people want more.
that is why projects like the manifesto pop up. that is why people are upset with dan's project. these people are not content with simply building community for it's own sake. they want to build community for it's purpose. please try and understand this bree.
as for your negative outlook...namely that so few cannot influence so many, do you really believe that to be true? can one person not change the world? have you never heard of Martin Luther King? have you never heard of Mohandas Gandhi? have you never heard of George washington? need i go on?!? one person CAN change their world. history has proven this point. we are more than one person, we are a community of thousands. while we may not all be as active as the next member, we are a large community, and our numbers have great potential.
can one man influence the world? yes. can we not then assume that 20 can influence 3000? and by extension that 3000, the world? think impossibly big. do it. try it. as william arthur ward said, "if you can imagine it you can achieve it; if you can dream it you can become it". imagine it. dream it. we can achieve it. we can become it. i believe we are a community like no other on the internet. we have quite a collection of people here, of many ages, many backgrounds, many interests, and many abilities. if we cannot change our world...who can?
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 4:33:50 GMT -5
Use our awesomeness for good. Embrace our inner weird. Have fun. Think IMPOSSIBLY big. Grow out. Grow strong. Stand by what we know to be true. Accept that we don't know everything. Welcome ALL who stand by these values. I honestly can't think of one person (not that I've racked my brain about it...) who truly lives and posts strictly by these values. When we can do that, I think we'll be ready to change the world. (I want it to be noted that I used a lot of restraint when replying to this post. I'd be very, very, very easy to personally attack bomb, but I'm going to trust that he can figure out which ones he needs to work on on his own, just like I can.)Hey bree, maybe you shouldn't be getting so worked up about this y'know? Hey. no. I like getting worked up about this. That's who I am. That's how I roll. lol I think we're fighting while somehow agreeing... I honestly just couldn't understand where you stood Bree. I'm glad I finally know where you are coming from. I do agree that we need to change ourselves before we change the world but what does that mean? I think changing ourselves is something we do privately, sort of in real life, but we're here on a forum of people. What's the point of being with people if all we're doing is focusing on ourselves? While we change ourselves we should be changing the community. That seems to be the point of coming together. So that's what I meant by, "why aren't we doing something?" As a community we've grown very far in the last few months but it feels like we've hit a wall and need to push for more change, more development, and more experimentation. Again I hope I didn't offend you. Steph Not everyone still needs to change themselves. Several people on this forum are at the point where they just need to help the community change, and help other individuals change. And helping the community change and other individuals will, in turn, help them change even more.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 4:36:06 GMT -5
thanks for telling us that bree, same to you. read my last post above.
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