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Post by Flags_Forever on Dec 22, 2010 7:37:02 GMT -5
It is completely unnacceptable for 40% of the population of a nation as influental as the United States of America to reject demonstratable scientific fact in favor of a multi-millenium old Semitic mythology. This is not an issue of religious tolerance, but one of nearly half a nation failing to accept reality. If this doesn't frighten you, I don't know what will. What I do know is that this is an issue that cannot simply be ignored.
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Post by newschooled on Dec 22, 2010 9:27:44 GMT -5
Anyone ever see the movie "Idiocracy"?
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Dec 22, 2010 15:43:39 GMT -5
Educating people as to what exactly a scientific theory is would be helpful. It's so easy for the ignorant to dismiss evolution as "just a theory" because they don't understand what exactly a theory is in a scientific context. You know, I've always thought high school science education should focus a bit more on what science actually is than it currently does, and not just on evolution but all around. Around Science 10 (the year before science splits into more specific courses like Physics/Chem/Bio) it would be a good idea to teach things like the scientific method, empirical research, and some of the other most basic building blocks of science rather than just what we've learned from science. And education like that is useful even to people that never go into science -- it's the kind of tool that can be applied to nearly any problem, that can be used to learn any number of different things. |
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Post by krzych32 on Dec 22, 2010 17:06:49 GMT -5
The marginal benefit to the society of everyone knowing the same thing is low. The information is out there if they find it beneficial to look for it. We may find it ignorant for them not looking into this subject but look at it this way, they most likely have greater knowledge in more practical subjects and find us ignorant because of that. So Plz stop giving other people BS just because they are not you.
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Post by Flags_Forever on Dec 22, 2010 17:08:51 GMT -5
Educating people as to what exactly a scientific theory is would be helpful. It's so easy for the ignorant to dismiss evolution as "just a theory" because they don't understand what exactly a theory is in a scientific context. You know, I've always thought high school science education should focus a bit more on what science actually is than it currently does, and not just on evolution but all around. Around Science 10 (the year before science splits into more specific courses like Physics/Chem/Bio) it would be a good idea to teach things like the scientific method, empirical research, and some of the other most basic building blocks of science rather than just what we've learned from science. And education like that is useful even to people that never go into science -- it's the kind of tool that can be applied to nearly any problem, that can be used to learn any number of different things. I'd agree with that. The scientific method is one of the best ways we have of establishing truth. Teaching it in a clearer fashion will help to demonstrate how we have proved evolution, and that it's not just an educated guess. |
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Post by Flags_Forever on Dec 22, 2010 17:15:56 GMT -5
The marginal benefit to the society of everyone knowing the same thing is low. The information is out there if they find it beneficial to look for it. We may find it ignorant for them not looking into this subject but look at it this way, they most likely have greater knowledge in more practical subjects and find us ignorant because of that. So Plz stop giving other people BS just because they are not you. What are you talking about? If someone isn't willing to thoroughly research a subject, they are in no position to render a judgement regarding said subject. |
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Post by krzych32 on Dec 22, 2010 19:21:08 GMT -5
The marginal benefit to the society of everyone knowing the same thing is low. The information is out there if they find it beneficial to look for it. We may find it ignorant for them not looking into this subject but look at it this way, they most likely have greater knowledge in more practical subjects and find us ignorant because of that. So Plz stop giving other people BS just because they are not you. What are you talking about? If someone isn't willing to thoroughly research a subject, they are in no position to render a judgement regarding said subject. You mean like everyone on this forum (including myself) do all the time? Everyone has different interests and knows more or less about different subjects, that still doesn't stop people from making stupid statements. This forum is a good example, but we don't call each other stupid over it. |
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Post by James McClelland on Dec 22, 2010 21:46:41 GMT -5
Newsflash: 40% of Americans are morons Breaking story: We knew that already. Shut up. Most Western countries are made of morons, including precious Canada. But yeah, there's no logic behind Creationism. |
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Dec 22, 2010 22:36:22 GMT -5
Oh look, this discussion has become an argument. Go figure =P
But really, sure people can believe what they want, but it says something about their education when they don't understand the principles of science and therefore don't understand the evidence for the process of evolution. I mean it's just ignorance and I wouldn't want to live in a country full of such ignorant/close-minded people.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Dec 23, 2010 3:37:44 GMT -5
The difference between the evolution problem and people generally not knowing things outside their field is vast, but there's two major points worth addressing. First, even when it's pointed out as a mistake, such proof is blindly rejected. In other words, this isn't people not knowing about evolution, it's people actively and aggressively fighting against it. Second, people insist on indoctrinating others with these beliefs. When they can't do it in schools, they still do so in churches or in their own homes. While this doesn't yield the same direct damage as other indoctrinations (like the anti-GLBT sentiment of many churches), it's still a problem that should be addressed.
Furthermore, I fail to see how trying to find a way to improve people's general education about something is at all a negative thing. And methods like Lightsider and I were discussing before -- about changing the science curriculum to include the more general methodology of science -- certainly isn't a negative thing either. In this case it's not even just about a single topic, like evolution; it's about teaching people how to find out the truth.
And yeah, this isn't just in the US, but the US is pretty much the worst statistically when it comes to creationism believers. I'm not too happy with Canada's numbers either though, which off the top of my head I believe were roughly 20%... but don't take my word on that.
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Post by Flags_Forever on Dec 23, 2010 6:12:39 GMT -5
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Dec 23, 2010 15:17:53 GMT -5
This is interesting:
Kinda supports the point of better education, imo...
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Post by Flags_Forever on Dec 23, 2010 16:54:47 GMT -5
This is interesting: Kinda supports the point of better education, imo... Um, yeah. That does make it painfully obvious.  |
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Post by stephen5000 on Dec 26, 2010 1:03:18 GMT -5
It seems to me that these people only really "believe" what's spoon fed to them in the pulpit (or whatever their narrow source of info about the world). I don't really know how to deal with people like that. It's disturbing that there are so many of them. These people basically don't think for themselves and often don't want to. How do you reason with someone like that?
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Dec 26, 2010 1:57:55 GMT -5
You forget about them and try to teach their children to think with an open mind through education programs. That's what I would do...
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Post by krzych32 on Dec 26, 2010 10:16:13 GMT -5
You forget about them and try to teach their children to think with an open mind through education programs. That's what I would do... The funny thing is that we are still teaching children that matter cannot be created or destroyed, even if the newest andances in physics tells us something different. If looking at the bible it also tells us that matter and energy can be created out of nothing . Bible into physics classrooms? |
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Dec 27, 2010 2:34:28 GMT -5
That's a tricky topic. I mean, we also teach that you can't take the square root of a negative number. But, in fact, with imaginary numbers, you can. There are a number of advanced topics like that which are basically slagged off due to the advanced knowledge required to handle them. The best you can do is add "typically" to the statement (although in the math example, even that fails).
In your example, there is an easier way out; the actual law is that the amount of energy in the universe cannot change. The only difference is that we now know that mass can become energy and vice versa... but as long as mass is measured in energy the net total remains the same. Of course, matter is energy, and antimatter is negative energy, which gives you another way to maintain that balance. So in that case, a better wording may be all that's needed.
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ryan
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Post by ryan on Feb 13, 2011 12:22:25 GMT -5
And I'm not going to retract that statement. If you honestly believe that evolution does not happen, you are, frankly, in my opinion, stupid. what about....aristotle, copernicus, gelileo, etc....im asusuming there morons as well |
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Feb 13, 2011 14:18:45 GMT -5
^Bad analogy considering that, in their times, science was not nearly as advanced as it is now.
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Post by knowbodi on Feb 14, 2011 18:04:15 GMT -5
You tell me man went to the moon.
My preacher tells me they didn't.
You call me dumb if I don't agree with you.
My preacher tells me it's ok if I don't understand yet.
You point to evidence, facts, pictures, etc.
My preacher points to evidence, facts, and pictures etc.
You don't like me because I don't immediately follow you.
My preacher is at my side comforting me as my mother dies even though I'm an atheist.
You are never around except to tell me what a backward thinker I am.
My preacher tells me to have faith in God like he, my mother and father, family and friends do.
You tell me that is garbage, a myth, and a lie.
He tells me it's ok to be yell at. He is understanding of my hurt.
You yell and froth at the mouth.
I believe him. He is kind. He is patient. He ministers to my needs.
You I don't believe. You hate. You belittle. You mistreat.
While this is not directed at anyone in this thread, this is what a creationist gets in the world. This is how they are treated. So the question is not "why do they believe that" the proper question is "why do they behave so poorly"
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