Should the Pledge of Allegiance be revised?

[Flappy]

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Let's break it down.

I pledge allegiance to the flag.
-Okay, no, why would anyone pledge their allegiance to an inanimate object?

Of the United States of America.
-No problem here.

And to the republic for which it stands.
-I dunno if the U.S. is, in fact, still a republic. This could also be debated.

One nation
-Well yeah, I guess it still is one nation.

Under God
-Yeah, this really needs to go. It's offensive and down right inaccurate. The Treaty of Tripoli makes it pretty clear that the U.S. is not a country founded on or by ("the Chirstian") religion. Furthermore, not everyone in the country believes in god or believes that god should be a part of their country's practices. I also find it interesting that the line "under God" wasn't added until 1954, 62 years after the pledge was written, not to mention that it didn't show up until the 4th revision.

Indivisible
-Which I find a little strange, considering we are a nation of states, states who are allowed to make their own laws. I dunno if it's just me, but it seems like it is divisible, and has been for quite some time. Sure, they're all part of the same nation, but it is definitely dividing rights and freedoms between states.

With Liberty and Justice for all
-Except for the homosexuals.

What do you think?

[vichilux]

Well, there are some wrong things there, but I don't really see a point on changing them... but Idk...

SPOILER: Click to show

Confused Costa Rican is still confused? xD

[Flags_Forever]

I'll go one step further and say we abolish the whole damned thing. It's... kinda like brainwashing, if you ask me.

[Flappy]

Jan 28, 2011 17:50:35 GMT -5 Flags_Forever said:

I'll go one step further and say we abolish the whole damned thing. It's... kinda like brainwashing, if you ask me.

You have a point.

[Lex]

Here in Canada we have an anthem... and that's it.

Honestly, I don't see the point of your pledge. It's really a bizarre custom to us, and it actually seems kind of dictatorial.

[Alex]

I hate it. I have to say it every day in class, staring at the flag, with my hand over my heart. Plus the whole "Under god" part irks me. It should just be thrown out.

Kids also get in trouble if they don't say it.

[austkyzor]

Jan 28, 2011 18:35:52 GMT -5 Lex said:

Here in Canada we have an anthem... and that's it.

Honestly, I don't see the point of your pledge. It's really a bizarre custom to us, and it actually seems kind of dictatorial.

We have a pledge of allegiance too
Well - technically it's the Oath of Citizenship, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same thing.

The difference is, you only ever have to say it once, and only if you're not a born citizen

[vichilux]

Jan 28, 2011 18:47:31 GMT -5 Alex said:

Plus the whole "Under god" part irks me. It should just be thrown out.

Ikr... in my high school we have to pray every morning! I hate that...

...but I guess that's what I get for going to a catholic high school xD what can I say, it's like the best in the whole country AND it's not expensive, so yeah, there had to be something wrong with it... =P

[Flappy]

Jan 28, 2011 18:47:31 GMT -5 Alex said:

I hate it. I have to say it every day in class, staring at the flag, with my hand over my heart. Plus the whole "Under god" part irks me. It should just be thrown out.

Kids also get in trouble if they don't say it.

You should protest (Don't say "under God") you are legally obliged to not say it if you feel it offensive. (Or "against your beliefs")

I find it to be a pretty stupid custom as well, and I also feel it is bad that they make people do it in school. It is, as was stated before, dictatorial.

[vichilux]

^That and pointless... saying something every day won't keep you from doing otherwise. So yeah, makes no sense.

[Freddy]

We also have kinda a Pledge of Allegiance, but it's toward the flag, not the country (wtf), although no one knows it, and it's pretty non-standard (everyone's got their own messed up version), but there is no reference to God whatsoever in it.

Now, about the anthem, it has some lines about God, and it's pretty weird

Do you actually have to say that each and every day? We only do so each Monday, and only in elementary school.

[Insane_Zang]

I can not participate in this debate because it would get religious very very quickly

[SwimFellow]

Hmm.. Well then we would have to refine the declaration. I think it's fine. We DO have freedom of speech. Just add what you want, and skip all you don't.

[Lex]

Can you just, like, not say the pledge at all and call it freedom of expression? I would SO do that if I was an American.

[SwimFellow]

Yeah. I do that.

[Flags_Forever]

That's what I did.

[Alex]

I read a whole book about this called "Nothing but the Truth". It was pretty dumb... I'll try not saying it Monday.

[0netnet0]

Jan 28, 2011 17:07:47 GMT -5 Flappy said:

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Let's break it down.

I pledge allegiance to the flag.
-Okay, no, why would anyone pledge their allegiance to an inanimate object?

Of the United States of America.
-No problem here.

And to the republic for which it stands.
-I dunno if the U.S. is, in fact, still a republic. This could also be debated.

One nation
-Well yeah, I guess it still is one nation.

Under God
-Yeah, this really needs to go. It's offensive and down right inaccurate. The Treaty of Tripoli makes it pretty clear that the U.S. is not a country founded on or by ("the Chirstian") religion. Furthermore, not everyone in the country believes in god or believes that god should be a part of their country's practices. I also find it interesting that the line "under God" wasn't added until 1954, 62 years after the pledge was written, not to mention that it didn't show up until the 4th revision.

Indivisible
-Which I find a little strange, considering we are a nation of states, states who are allowed to make their own laws. I dunno if it's just me, but it seems like it is divisible, and has been for quite some time. Sure, they're all part of the same nation, but it is definitely dividing rights and freedoms between states.

With Liberty and Justice for all
-Except for the homosexuals.

What do you think?

True

[Ryan]

The original Pledge of Allegiance did not have the phrase "under god" in it.

The phrase was added as a testament to the Gettysburg address in which president Lincoln said the following: "that this nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom" At the time when Lincoln said it, the majority of the Union was Christian, and while not the national religion (for there is no such religion) the phrase was not deemed offensive, nor would anyone at the time had taken offense to the phrase.

The phrase was added in 1948 (officially in 1954), during a time when again no one would take offense to the religious meaning of it, and the representative meaning (in honor of the statement professed in the Gettysburg Address) was quite important.

Now, since the phrase "under god" has lost it's representative meaning, and is entirely focussed on the religious aspect (if you ask anyone about the "under god" in the PoA, most will say it's religious), it should be discarded, returning us to the PoA we had in 1924.


In regards to the rest:

1. we pledge allegiance to the flag for the same reason we: salute the flag, raise the flag, and sing anthems to the flag. The flag is the sole representative of our nation and what it stands for. Yes it is an inanimate object, but more important than that it is a symbol and symbols are more important than objects or people.

2. USA.

3. The USA is a democratic republic. If it were not a republic, there would be no Senate, or House of Representatives. We elect them, they make decisions - thats how a republic works. It's democratic because of how we elect them. We are NOT a democracy. (We will refer to the USA peoples here, b/c I know several of you are not from US, just ignore that and insert "the US")

4. One Nation - ok

5. Addressed earlier in this post

6. We are indivisible, yes the states make their own laws, but they still abide by the laws of the federal government, and the federal government can impose new laws at any time to overturn state rules. States are simply regions. All regions are governed by sets of rules, we break them down as follows. Your neighborhood - Home Owners Association sets the rules for your neighborhood. Town - you have a mayor, and town council (sometimes even a senate). They make town-wide rules. County - again, more rules. State - here we have a governor and state senate that impose more rules. And lastly the Federal Government. Guess what - there's another: The UN and NATO. Since the USA is part of these organizations, they must follow their rules as well. If you live in Europe, once you get to the country level, you also have the EU to deal with. There are always separations based on how to govern, but the indivisibility of a nation is based on the unity of the people of that nation, and not on how many regions it has.

7. This part is a peeve of mine. The country was founded on this principle - it is the soul purpose for this nation. And the people and government have apparently forsaken it. Either this part should be appended to demonstrate how many people do not have liberty and justice, or the government should get their act together.

[Flappy]

Jan 30, 2011 0:32:55 GMT -5 Ryan said:

The original Pledge of Allegiance did not have the phrase "under god" in it.

I made mention of that.

The phrase was added as a testament to the Gettysburg address in which president Lincoln said the following: "that this nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom" At the time when Lincoln said it, the majority of the Union was Christian, and while not the national religion (for there is no such religion) the phrase was not deemed offensive, nor would anyone at the time had taken offense to the phrase.

I would argue that at the time Robert Ingersol was offended. Or at least upset about this fact. I'd also like to say that, you have a point. "At the time". But times have changed, and it has been revised before. Why not today?

The phrase was added in 1948 (officially in 1954), during a time when again no one would take offense to the religious meaning of it, and the representative meaning (in honor of the statement professed in the Gettysburg Address) was quite important.

Again, Ingersol. He may have been just one person, but he made public speaches stating his opinions on the matter. He even wrote a book on Abraham Lincoln (I haven't read it, so I don't really know if he talks about religious stuff, but it's highly likely).

Now, since the phrase "under god" has lost it's representative meaning, and is entirely focussed on the religious aspect (if you ask anyone about the "under god" in the PoA, most will say it's religious), it should be discarded, returning us to the PoA we had in 1924.

Yeah, agreed.

In regards to the rest:

1. we pledge allegiance to the flag for the same reason we: salute the flag, raise the flag, and sing anthems to the flag. The flag is the sole representative of our nation and what it stands for. Yes it is an inanimate object, but more important than that it is a symbol and symbols are more important than objects or people.

In my opinion, symbols are only a distraction from what they represent. I mean, how often have you asked someone "why do you salute to the flag?" probably not very often. I just think out country has became more attached to the flag, rather than the actual meaning.

2. USA.

3. The USA is a democratic republic. If it were not a republic, there would be no Senate, or House of Representatives. We elect them, they make decisions - thats how a republic works. It's democratic because of how we elect them. We are NOT a democracy. (We will refer to the USA peoples here, b/c I know several of you are not from US, just ignore that and insert "the US")

Okay. Thank you for clearing that up.

4. One Nation - ok

5. Addressed earlier in this post

6. We are indivisible, yes the states make their own laws, but they still abide by the laws of the federal government, and the federal government can impose new laws at any time to overturn state rules. States are simply regions. All regions are governed by sets of rules, we break them down as follows. Your neighborhood - Home Owners Association sets the rules for your neighborhood. Town - you have a mayor, and town council (sometimes even a senate). They make town-wide rules. County - again, more rules. State - here we have a governor and state senate that impose more rules. And lastly the Federal Government. Guess what - there's another: The UN and NATO. Since the USA is part of these organizations, they must follow their rules as well. If you live in Europe, once you get to the country level, you also have the EU to deal with. There are always separations based on how to govern, but the indivisibility of a nation is based on the unity of the people of that nation, and not on how many regions it has.

Okay.

7. This part is a peeve of mine. The country was founded on this principle - it is the soul purpose for this nation. And the people and government have apparently forsaken it. Either this part should be appended to demonstrate how many people do not have liberty and justice, or the government should get their act together.

Yeah, I mean, at the time, you could add "women", "blacks", "slaves", and a whole array of other people who weren't given liberty and justice.