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Post by hutchy on Mar 25, 2010 15:55:02 GMT -5
Are you religious? not one bit
Which religion are you? None.
Do you think religion is a necessary part of society? We'll there is a million and one arguments i can give at this, but here is the one i believe in.
Religion, as said earlier, is a very tetchy subject and when people have followed, (blindly or not) a religion for 20/30 years they are very unlikely to admit that they were wrong for those 20/30 years and convert back. They will make no end of rationalisations to keep fooling themselves into believing in their religion and staying close to their faith. This may not entirely be a bad thing. However it will eventually in the future get to the point where religion blocks society from moving forward. A bit like when out of control churches locked scientists in towers to block progress, im not saying this will happen again, im saying that christian or muslim or islmaic (not trying to single out any particular religion, forgive me if you mis-interpretate, and forgive me for my spelling) will at some point begin to question scientific re-search if it clashes with their beliefs. It is going to happen science and religion have been two subjects that will clash, you may say that some science proved god but that will take another thread to argue. The difference between science and religion is science is allways moving forward, science is making the breakthroughs and putting man on the moon. Has god done this? no, science has.
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Post by iwishiwasincollege on Mar 25, 2010 19:09:30 GMT -5
Although religion is extraordinarily simple, it is extremely misinterpreted.
Be kind to yourself and others. Make attempts to understand your friends, foes, and everyone else. Forgive, forgive, and forgive. Love everyone. Forget your differences. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. No matter who your God is, he loves EVERYONE, and so should you. No God or religion wants you to hurt others in any way, shape, or form.
Peace and Love
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Post by Dimstow on Mar 25, 2010 20:04:02 GMT -5
@iwishiwasincollage Finally! someone who understands!!
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Nakor
Star
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Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 25, 2010 20:22:29 GMT -5
To handle this one on a point-by-point basis:
- Be kind to yourself and others. - Make attempts to understand your friends, foes, and everyone else. - Forgive, forgive, and forgive. - Love everyone. - Forget your differences. - Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
These are morals. Some religions have them, some religions don't. People without religions sometimes have them too. They exist independent of religion.
- No matter who your God is, he loves EVERYONE, and so should you.
If he exists, which some of us doubt. Moreover, not all religions agree that god (or that some of the gods, depending) are particularly nice.
- No God or religion wants you to hurt others in any way, shape, or form.
The crusades, terrorism, Israel and Palestine, pretty much everything Scientology does... the list goes on. Whether or not God wants it (assuming he exists) some religions certainly seem to enjoy playing nasty.
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Post by iwishiwasincollege on Mar 25, 2010 20:29:30 GMT -5
Dear Nakor,
In response I would like to say that you forgot my first point, that religion's purpose and role in society is extremely misinterpreted, leading to all of those flaws that you pointed out in my definition of what I believe religion to be: a doctrine of beliefs to live your life by if you wish to be a "good person".
P.s. Thanks, I like your debate.
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Post by Lex on Mar 25, 2010 20:45:50 GMT -5
Although religion is extraordinarily simple, it is extremely misinterpreted. Be kind to yourself and others. Make attempts to understand your friends, foes, and everyone else. Forgive, forgive, and forgive. Love everyone. Forget your differences. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. No matter who your God is, he loves EVERYONE, and so should you. No God or religion wants you to hurt others in any way, shape, or form. Peace and Love YES! This settles it. For the next WBC protest, someone ought to counterprotest with a giant demotivational something like this: Because they are doing it very wrong indeed.
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Post by swan on Mar 25, 2010 20:50:15 GMT -5
my definition of what I believe religion to be: a doctrine of beliefs to live your life by if you wish to be a "good person". I guess it depends on how you define religion because what you just said can exist independently of god, and from what I understand there is a grey area around whether or not a group has to believe in a god for them to be considered religious (ie. Buddhism).
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 26, 2010 2:53:09 GMT -5
Dear Nakor, In response I would like to say that you forgot my first point, that religion's purpose and role in society is extremely misinterpreted, leading to all of those flaws that you pointed out in my definition of what I believe religion to be: a doctrine of beliefs to live your life by if you wish to be a "good person". P.s. Thanks, I like your debate. It's less that I missed the point and more that I think you're off the mark. I have a set of beliefs (if you call them that I suppose... ethics or morals anyway) I live by to be a good person. It hardly constitutes a religion, it's merely what I think is right to do. What you speak of is a way of life, or lifestyle, not a religion. As I've pointed out before, if you're not precise with vocabulary things can very quickly become very confused and inaccurate. It's vital to have things defined as close to exactly as possible. You state: "I believe religion to be: a doctrine of beliefs to live your life by if you wish to be a "good person"." [sic] Well, doing good unto others isn't in and of itself religion, although it's what some religions claim to do. Religions are a whole lot more than what you pointed out in your post. For something to be a religion it must go beyond the natural and have some level of belief in the supernatural -- spirits, gods, reincarnation or some other metaphysical belief. Otherwise it isn't religion, it's just lifestyle. Even described as a doctrine it is not religion; a doctrine is simply "something that is taught" and even to the extreme sense of the word 'doctrine,' dogma isn't limited to religion. You state that "religion's main role and purpose in society is misinterpreted," but I have to reject that. I assume you're either referring to atheists misinterpreting it, or more likely you're referring to the people who do things you disagree with based on their religion misinterpreting its role in society, so I'll counter both points just to cover my bases. Atheists misinterpreting religion's role in society is pretty easy to argue against. Religion is a set of beliefs in anything supernatural. This is usually also theism, but not always. Its role in society tends to be one of attempting to spread its indoctrination and beliefs, imposing as best it can its values and rules upon society. While in many cases the rules religion wishes to impose are perfectly fine (thou shalt not kill), many of them are not (gays can't marry). From an atheist's perspective religion is unnecessary, because we know for a fact that the morals and ethics humans live by would exist in its absence. If you mean that those who act in ways you disagree with based on their religion are misinterpreting religion, again I feel that you're wrong. After all, Christian fundamentalists (fundamentalists defined as those who hold to a strict and literal adherence to a set of principals, rejecting any attempt to change or improve on them) are quite correct when they point out that the bible speaks against homosexuality and gay marriage; it doesn't appear to be a misinterpretation of their religion at all. Scientology certainly isn't misinterpreting their religion when they use it to extort and blackmail. Thus, acting in an 'evil' manner is not inherently a misinterpretation of religion at all; some religions simply are that way. The better religious people of course do not follow such poor morals, but it cannot be said that those who do use religion as their reasoning for acting amorally are not necessarily misinterpreting their religion by doing so. In fact, if I use the Christian fundamentalists arguing against gay marriage as an example, they probably think that those Christians who are okay with gay marriage are the ones misinterpreting their religion. It's all a matter of perspective. So I conclude that religion's 'role in society' is neither necessary nor misinterpreted by anyone. You disagree -- and rightly so -- with the role some religious people try to play in society, but that does not mean they are misinterpreting religion, it merely means they are amoral or subscribe to an amoral religion (or perhaps just one you personally disagree with that is not amoral, depending on the exact situation in question). @swan: The definition of religion can certainly be hazy, though I think it's safe to apply it to atheistic religions such as Buddhism, because they still believe in a spirituality outside of the physical world. It's safe to refer to any practice or set of beliefs that accounts for spirituality beyond the physical (anything 'metaphysical' or 'supernatural' I suppose), any sort of eternal life or reincarnation, and of course any form of theism as religion. So I would define religion as a collected set of beliefs at least some of which deal in the existence of the supernatural (and any variation(s) thereof).
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Philosoraptor
Moon
dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
Posts: 145
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Post by Philosoraptor on Mar 26, 2010 16:57:32 GMT -5
These are some of the core ideas of humanism, actually. Which does pretty well on its own without deities.
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Post by swan on Mar 26, 2010 17:50:35 GMT -5
So I would define religion as a collected set of beliefs at least some of which deal in the existence of the supernatural (and any variation(s) thereof). Yeah I agree with that definition.
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Post by stephen5000 on Mar 30, 2010 22:07:22 GMT -5
Generally speaking I don't believe that the supernatural exists. (You could call me a metaphysical naturalist) If this means I'm not religious, then so be it.
To some extent this is a pragmatic view: why believe in somethings that can't be shown to exist scientifically, and thus has no real impact on our lives?
People should have some notion of what the world is and how it works; I just don't see why this explanation has to include supernatural elements.
Ultimately there is much about the world we don't understand. Given the limitations of human science and the human intellect, there will be much about the world we will never understand. Does that mean we should just accept ancient stories about how a God or a mystical force made or controls the world to fill in those gaps? Some people would think so, but I don't.
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korojo01
Meteorite
We are all just a pawn in this game of life.
Posts: 21
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Post by korojo01 on Mar 31, 2010 14:06:45 GMT -5
So i saw this thread and i got really interested. Just to give a little bit of a background of where i am coming from on my thinking about religion I used to be a strong follower of the christian faith. I was born and raised in a christian family. I ended up being basically a zombie for that religion because that was what i was raised to believe. I never questioned my belief untill i got into high school where i had to make a decision of becoming a leader of a youth group and leading other students to believe this religion i was believing or question why i believe and tempt falling away from faith. I ended up making the decision to do some soul searching and try to understand this religion that i have followed for over 16 years. Basically for me everything in the religion makes sense for the most part after a certain point. I kept coming back to one point where no where does it explain why it happened or what the purpose of it was. But ignoring that one point in time everything after it kind of makes sense. Know before i go anyfuther i have to say i am sorry if i make anyone mad by what i am saying i am just searching for a better understanding of religion and am open to being proven wrong. The one point i am talking about is what was the purpose of God to create the angles. If God is an all knowing all powerful, and this perfect being. Wouldnt he not need anything or one to make him happy. wouldnt just the existence of himself be enough. Some people say to me that well since god is all loving he would want to share his love with others. But this skips the question i just asked. why would god need anything or anyone to make himself happy. would the feeling of want or need deam you to be not perfect (keep in mind we are talking about God and not a human). Like i said before after the angles were created things make sense in the fact that God would rather have them love him on their own free will then by him forcing them to love him. So there we have free will and from that Lucifer fell from the heavens and so on and so forth into the creating of earth and where we are today. So for me to understand why the religion of Christianity exists that one point would have to be defined. Now after explaining where my beliefs are on christianity i should explain where i am today on religion. I do believe that there is something out there bigger then our explanation that created everything in existence (a god of some sort). As for Jesus and the tails that are described in the bible i do not believe that because for example you learn about moses and him leading the Israelites to freedom. But where in the bible does it talk about the thousands of people that moses and the Israelites had to kill to get to where they would be free. It never talkes about how moses was a commander and that the Israelites were his army. Things like that are just to inconsistent for me to fully understand and believe what it has to say. So again this is just my view on religion and i am 100% open to being proven wrong or just to have a discussion on your own view points on religion. The only way to better understand something is to discuss with others and see as many viewpoints as possible to fully understand the question at hand.
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Post by omgpokemon on Apr 2, 2010 15:23:01 GMT -5
I'm Christan but I'm starting to question if God really does exist, is that bad?
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Post by Lex on Apr 2, 2010 15:24:32 GMT -5
I'm Christan but I'm starting to question if God really does exist, is that bad? No, because it really doesn't matter. I mean, if it's going to completely devastate you or ruin your life in some way by being rejected by your family or something, then it's probably a bad thing. But if it's not, then who really cares?
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Apr 2, 2010 18:53:50 GMT -5
In the case that a change in religion would result in rejection from one's family (be that a change to, from or between religions) then it is not the change that is bad so much as the rejection that is. There's nothing wrong with looking at things objectively and trying to come to your own conclusions. This is called "thinking" and we all have a right to that.
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eileen1992
Meteorite
In this world you must be oh so smart , or oh so pleasant
Posts: 34
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Post by eileen1992 on Apr 2, 2010 19:03:30 GMT -5
Although religion is extraordinarily simple, it is extremely misinterpreted. Be kind to yourself and others. Make attempts to understand your friends, foes, and everyone else. Forgive, forgive, and forgive. Love everyone. Forget your differences. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. No matter who your God is, he loves EVERYONE, and so should you. No God or religion wants you to hurt others in any way, shape, or form. Peace and Love If there was a 'like' button I would press it =D (LOTS) All you people seem to have really informed , intelligent views on religion....lucky so and sos Might as well fill this out: Are you religious? ....actually if I think about it , I am pretty religious Which religion are you? Catholic Do you think religion is a necessary part of society? ....tricky one...I guess it has some nice morals that can be put into society (I'm talking along the whole 'respect and be nice to everyone' lines....there's some...'morals'...especially in Catholicism that could use a wee bit of updating) Why do we have religion? Or, if you are religious, what purpose does it serve in your life? I don't really know what purpose it serves...I mean I guess when I'm feeling pretty pretty sad and upset I just find it nice to know someone's there (... clichéd much?). And I do alot of spiritual therapy religously courses with younger kids and you can sorta see religion...or at least the sort of help it offers them making them feel a little better about some problems they have.... In short I don't really know , it just....helps me out...alot.... Though I'm sure its all relative and lots of people can function perfectly without religion.
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Post by Gafro on Apr 3, 2010 17:23:54 GMT -5
As an agnostic, it strikes me that religion was necessary, but no longer is. As children of the post-enlightenment era, we can function without mythology, since mythology served a purpose for which it is no longer needed (teaching fact and custom), and religious morality does not need to be taken with the other aspects of the religion it comes in. Religion, then, should be a very personal thing, of a simple set of beliefs, if at all, and should play no social, economic or political role. And we have religion because parents teach it, and a select few are converted.
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imtwenty
Meteor
Can I put anything here and it will go underneath my name everywhere?
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Post by imtwenty on Apr 3, 2010 17:34:07 GMT -5
Although religion is extraordinarily simple, it is extremely misinterpreted. Be kind to yourself and others. Make attempts to understand your friends, foes, and everyone else. Forgive, forgive, and forgive. Love everyone. Forget your differences. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. No matter who your God is, he loves EVERYONE, and so should you. No God or religion wants you to hurt others in any way, shape, or form. Peace and Love I wish that everyone acted like this. I AM LOOKING AT YOU WESTBORO BATIST CHURCH.
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Post by bunnyfulwanderer on Apr 3, 2010 23:16:12 GMT -5
Although religion is extraordinarily simple, it is extremely misinterpreted. Be kind to yourself and others. Make attempts to understand your friends, foes, and everyone else. Forgive, forgive, and forgive. Love everyone. Forget your differences. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. No matter who your God is, he loves EVERYONE, and so should you. No God or religion wants you to hurt others in any way, shape, or form. Peace and Love I wish that everyone acted like this. I AM LOOKING AT YOU WESTBORO BATIST CHURCH. indeed. there are some faiths that are entirely benign. but people will people
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Post by notsuretobeme on Apr 4, 2010 12:26:32 GMT -5
When I first stumbled upon this discussion, I was a bit frightened....Mostly because there was talk of only one male deity (and everything was like a paragraph long). But the whole idea of this discussion is to put one's ideas out there and then kinda talk about it, right?? Well, here I go....answering the basic questions.... Are you religious? Well, kind of....It's tough to explain why I'm not entirely sure if I'm religious... Which religion are you? When I am religious, I pray to the Goddess of night, Nyx Do you think religion is a necessary part of society? Oo, that's a tough one to answer....As much as I hate to say this, I think if it wasn't for religion being such a huge part of society in the past, then we may have never evolved into the society we are today. Why do we have religion? Or, if you are religious, what purpose does it serve in your life? I look at religion as 2 things: 1) An explanation of how things are created (how man came to be, what created the universe) 2) As someone to talk to when it feels like there's no one that will listen to your cries
Alrighty then.....(how do I end this?)
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