Helmet
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Post by Helmet on Apr 21, 2010 17:39:14 GMT -5
How will I know when I enter this "Dream World"? I was wondering the same thing...... A few ways to find out that you are dreaming is to get into the habit of counting your fingers, looking away from the hand, then counting them again. In "dream world" if you look away you hand could have an extra finger or might be holding something, which is a clear sign you are dreaming.
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Post by kspons on Apr 21, 2010 20:11:54 GMT -5
one question that i have about lucid dreaming is how long are you actually dreaming for. both in real life and in the dreaming world. also, does lucid dreaming detract from the recommended eight hours of sleep? if your not actually entirely asleep, does it still count as sleeping?
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Helmet
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Post by Helmet on Apr 21, 2010 20:53:25 GMT -5
There are around 5 stages of dreaming, the most important one is REM sleep. REM stands for Rapid Eye Movement, which is when your eyes move very fast (hence "Rapid Movement"). The REM state is when you actually get "un-restified," if you didn't have REM stage, you would always be tired. The cool thing is, REM is when you are actually most awake, strange huh? I've heard of sleep diets where you force your body to go instantly into REM sleep, giving you 4 extra hours of non-sleep time while never being tired. It's called the Uberman Sleep diet: dustincurtis.com/sleep.html
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 22, 2010 5:52:12 GMT -5
I will say, I disagree with the methods of testing whether you are dreaming of not. I've had dreams where I've turned on a light by flipping the switch, and ones where I've seen my reflection. Therefore, I do not trust it. . True, i can turn lights on and off in dreams and see reflections and read signs on walls and do all the things they claim i shouldn't be able to do. However i find in a dream if i look at i bright light it is never that bright, it never hurts my eyes and i'm never left with a negative image. (that pink or green left in front of your eyes after you look at a bulb and then look away) Also you can't feel pain if you pinch yourself. But the fact is if you have to check you're dreaming either something really bad has happened and you're hoping to god you're dreaming or you actually are dreaming. Normally in our waking life we're reasonably sure all the time we're awake, of course we could be in the matrix, but we're awake in the matrix at least. Anyway guys, seriously, non-lucid dreams are way better. Trust me. Knowing its not real ruins everything. It becomes no better than day dreaming or painting a picture. It used to be in almost all of my dreams i'd realize I was dreaming, fortunately it rarely happens now, but it's not fun after the first few times it's just frustrating. I have no idea why anyone would try to have one, unless their dreamworld was a horrible place normally. Does anyone know a sure fire way of waking up from a lucid dream? Like if you're having a terrifying nightmare that you can't do anything to control but you know it's a dream... I repeatedly lurch forward as violently as i can until eventually my real body does the same and the movement wakes me up. But it doesn't always work, or it takes too long. When i was a kid i used to pull out my eyelashes and for some reason that would wake me up. And also sometimes whenever I realized I was dreaming I'd look down and be wearing this big heavy coat with huge really tight buttons, if i could un-do all the buttons I would wake up every time, but the buttons were sooo tight. (remember how often when you were a kid there were buttons you couldn't open? Was it that kids have weak hands or that my mom sucked at making button holes?)
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Post by low on Apr 22, 2010 8:18:57 GMT -5
I will say, I disagree with the methods of testing whether you are dreaming of not. I've had dreams where I've turned on a light by flipping the switch, and ones where I've seen my reflection. Therefore, I do not trust it. . True, i can turn lights on and off in dreams and see reflections and read signs on walls and do all the things they claim i shouldn't be able to do. However i find in a dream if i look at i bright light it is never that bright, it never hurts my eyes and i'm never left with a negative image. (that pink or green left in front of your eyes after you look at a bulb and then look away) Also you can't feel pain if you pinch yourself. This is actually not true and is a myth carried from generations of false knowledge the same way "we only use 10% of our brains" is. (Most of) Your brain is active during dreams. Looking at text, turning your head, and then looking at the text again to see if it changed, is your best option. But the fact is if you have to check you're dreaming either something really bad has happened and you're hoping to god you're dreaming or you actually are dreaming. Normally in our waking life we're reasonably sure all the time we're awake, of course we could be in the matrix, but we're awake in the matrix at least. --And the point is that you don't think to question it while you're dreaming for two reasons: 1. Logic and other higher functioning tends to be shut off in a dream, 2. you don't receive new sensory input to correct mistakes. If you hallucinate something out the corner of your eye, then you look over, see the correct sensory input, and realize it was a hallucination. Without the correct sensory input of waking life, your hallucinations run wild and seem perfectly natural. Anyway guys, seriously, non-lucid dreams are way better. Trust me. Knowing its not real ruins everything. It becomes no better than day dreaming or painting a picture. I can't speak for your personal experiences, but here's Stephen LaBerge answering a letter from someone saying virtually the same thing: Q. Since I believe that dreams are messages from the unconscious mind, I am afraid that consciously controlling my dreams would interfere with this important process and deprive me of the benefits of dream interpretation.
A. As Chapter 5 will explain, dreams are not letters from the unconscious mind, but experiences created through the interactions of the unconscious and conscious mind. In dreams, more unconscious knowledge is available to our conscious experience. However, the dream is not at all the exclusive realm of the unconscious mind. If it were, people would never remember their dreams, because we do not have waking access to what is not conscious. The person, or dream ego, that we experience being in the dream is the same as our waking consciousness. It constantly influences the events of the dream through its expectations and biases, just as it does in waking life. The essential difference in the lucid dream is that the ego is aware that the experience is a dream. This allows the ego much more freedom of choice and creative responsibility to find the best way to act in the dream. I don’t think that you should always be conscious that you are dreaming any more than I think that you should always be conscious of whatever you are doing in waking life. Sometimes self-consciousness can interfere with effective performance; if you are in a situation (dream or waking) in which your habits are working smoothly, you don’t need to direct your action consciously. However, if your habits are taking you in the wrong direction (whether dreaming or waking), you should be able to “wake up” to what you are doing wrong and consciously redirect your approach. As for the benefits of dream interpretation, lucid dreams can be examined as fruitfully as nonlucid ones. Indeed, lucid dreamers sometimes interpret their dreams while they are happening. Becoming lucid is likely to alter what would have otherwise happened, but the dreams can still be interpreted.
Stephen LaBerge Ph.D. & Howard Rheingold, Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming (New York: Ballantine, 1990), 26-7.Does anyone know a sure fire way of waking up from a lucid dream? Like if you're having a terrifying nightmare that you can't do anything to control but you know it's a dream... I repeatedly lurch forward as violently as i can until eventually my real body does the same and the movement wakes me up. But it doesn't always work, or it takes too long. Well I say there are 4 options you have: 1. Freak out, squirm, and panic until you wake up in terror. 2. Dream spinning (put arms to side and spin like a top)--This will only change the scene of your dream and might result in a false awakening (thinking you just woke up, when you're actually still in a dream), 3. Doing nothing--if the dream ceases to get your attention, then you can wake up. 4. Realize that it's a dream and that you have a great opportunity to confront your nightmare. If you're being chased, for example, ask your pursuer "Who are you?" and they may even instantly transform into someone you know.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 22, 2010 9:19:14 GMT -5
True, i can turn lights on and off in dreams and see reflections and read signs on walls and do all the things they claim i shouldn't be able to do. However i find in a dream if i look at i bright light it is never that bright, it never hurts my eyes and i'm never left with a negative image. (that pink or green left in front of your eyes after you look at a bulb and then look away) Also you can't feel pain if you pinch yourself. This is actually not true and is a myth carried from generations of false knowledge the same way "we only use 10% of our brains" is. (Most of) Your brain is active during dreams. Looking at text, turning your head, and then looking at the text again to see if it changed, is your best option. What is not true? That we can't read in dreams? I saw it in a batman cartoon. I've met some people who really can't. I will try the text thing next time out of curiosity, but i never need to prove to myself that something is a dream because once i ask is it a dream I know it is, the idea just needs to occur to me, and I usually hate when it does. That's the exact opposite of what I was saying. When I'm awake I never ask myself if I'm dreaming (unless something bad is happened and i want it to be a dream). When I'm dreaming I do all the time, so I think that what you're saying can't be true or if it is it can't be for everyone. This is why i have lucid dreams far more than I would like I suppose. I would agree with that except to add that I feel dream interpretation is nonsense. Does anyone know a sure fire way of waking up from a lucid dream? Like if you're having a terrifying nightmare that you can't do anything to control but you know it's a dream... I repeatedly lurch forward as violently as i can until eventually my real body does the same and the movement wakes me up. But it doesn't always work, or it takes too long. Well I say there are 4 options you have: 1. Freak out, squirm, and panic until you wake up in terror. 2. Dream spinning (put arms to side and spin like a top)--This will only change the scene of your dream and might result in a false awakening (thinking you just woke up, when you're actually still in a dream), 3. Doing nothing--if the dream ceases to get your attention, then you can wake up. 4. Realize that it's a dream and that you have a great opportunity to confront your nightmare. If you're being chased, for example, ask your pursuer "Who are you?" and they may even instantly transform into someone you know. [/quote] Does asking "who are you?" work if you know exactly who the person is? or if there is no person there at all? I could try dream-spinning but I imagine a scene change won't really help because a nightmare isn't about events it's about feelings. Doing nothing doesn't work because when you close your eyes things emerge through the darkness again. There's no way to ignore it. I guess squirming and violently pushing forward is the only option.
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Post by Leo McGinnis on Apr 22, 2010 13:43:56 GMT -5
How will I know when I enter this "Dream World"? I was wondering the same thing...... Well, it's different for everyone. But the "transitional stage" as I like to call it should be very noticeable for most. I get weird visions and those body sensations (light/heavy at the same time, falling and floating) and my senses start acting weird. Usually it starts out with colors that become patterns that then turn into scenes. One way that it happened for me was that I was starting to float through a starry tunnel, after which I was kind of dropped in a dream scene (i.e. a world that looked as real as the waking world). Another time the scenery around me just started to go from green colors to becoming sort of a forest. The other times there was no color or noticeable transition, just darkness. But I still got the floating feeling, as if I lifted out of my body and was later (what felt like 20 seconds) "dropped" into my bed again, but in a dream version. I stood up and did a reality test and I was dreaming. Short answer: it's different for everyone, but it should be noticeable. Also you can't feel pain if you pinch yourself. Actually, you can. For most people (not everyone), pinching yourself in a dream produces the very convincing feeling of an actual pinch. That's a gross over-generalization and one I think most lucid dreamers would heartily disagree with. If you'd pay a visit to either LD4all or Dreamviews you'd notice that thousands of people are very excited about lucid dreams. Also, for most, it's hard to just have a few every month. People who have lucid dreams, unwillingly, all the time, sure, I can understand. But you're talking about a very, VERY small percentage of people. For the vast majority of people, lucid dreams are a rarity. Even when they become good at it, they'll only have a few a week. Even at my peak, when I had about 5 lucid dreams a week, I still had plenty of normal dreams, and awesome ones at that. I remembered at least 4-6 dreams a night. On a good night, one or two of those would be lucid. I don't see how I'm losing out. Being good at lucid dreaming does not mean forfeiting the ability to get normal dreams. On the contrary. Because I became involved in lucid dreaming, I remembered that much more of my normal dreams. I have written down hundreds of dreams in my dream journal. Again, I'm not saying it's the same for you, but for most people, lucid dreams are rare, and they are exciting and limitless when it comes to what you can do. Even if I had a thousand lucid dreams, I wouldn't run out of new stuff to try. And one thing daydreams and painted pictures can't give me is the sense of reality. Lucid dreams feel absolutely REAL. They are vivid. Other than the fact that you KNOW that you're dreaming, there is no way to tell that anything in the dream isn't real. For instance, I absolutely LOVE flying. Love it. I do it all the time in normal dreams. The difference between flying in a normal dream and a lucid one is that I'm so much more aware of the fun sensation of flying in the lucid one. Lastly, it's relatively easy to "lose control" of a lucid dream and have it go back to a normal one. Sometimes I'll realize that I'm dreaming, but if the dream is particularly awesome, I'll just "let go" of my lucidity. Even before I learned how to lucid dream, I did something I called X-cancel. In a nightmare, when the "worst part" happened, I would cross my index fingers and yell "cancel!". I did this subconsciously, without intending to do it, but it woke me up every time. Later I used this as a way to gain control over the dream. Every time I got the urge to want to wake up, I'd just stop and turn around. Example: I was being chased by a huge mountain of a man (he kinda looked like Zangief from Street Fighter). He wanted to kill me. When I got the urge to use X-cancel (this was after I learned what lucid dreaming was) I just stopped, turned around and beat him up. Bye, bye nightmare. If you really become lucid during a nightmare, then just "wanting" to wake up should do the trick. Create your own trick if you want to. But if you really know you're dreaming, you should also realize that nothing can possibly hurt you. Bottom line is, I can understand why you may be tired of lucid dreams, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't try it. For most people it's an exhilarating and rewarding experience. Even most people who master lucid dreaming (meaning they can have them whenever they want) it doesn't get old, so please don't tell others not to pursue it just because you don't like them. My tip for you would be to learn to lose lucidity in a dream. Don't know how, though. I just "do it." one question that i have about lucid dreaming is how long are you actually dreaming for. both in real life and in the dreaming world. Very elaborate tests (performed in sleep laboratories) over the last twenty-odd years have proven that dream time and real life time are the same. There are reasons why your dreams might feel longer: - You don't have any memory of what happened before the dream, but you feel/know you were alive before then. - You're in a second dream (perhaps even much later in the night or on a different day!) but it builds from a dream you've had before, giving you the illusion of a much longer dream. No, it does not detract from your sleep. Again, extensive lab tests over the last decades have proved this. The only reason lucid dreaming would detract from your normal eight hours of sleep is if it actually keeps you awake at night. (like when trying to WILD or use other induction techniques). If you sleep normally, it doesn't matter if none of your dreams were lucid or if all of them were.
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Post by Trey on Apr 22, 2010 16:43:01 GMT -5
Leo, you're my new best friend xD
I'm doing this again tonight! I wasn't able to perform a WILD last night (Too TIRED), but I was able to have two dreams that I could recall! I feel like I'm making a LOT of progress because I'm lucky if I can recall one dream a month.
I look forward to my first successful Lucid Dream!
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Helmet
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Post by Helmet on Apr 22, 2010 17:24:38 GMT -5
The first time I seriously tried extreme lucid dreaming, I had about three different dreams. While trying the WILD last night i went into sleep paralysis, but forgot to open my eyes, causing me to fall asleep. :-(
But I've been trying every night....
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Post by Trey on Apr 22, 2010 18:04:56 GMT -5
I read that a way to get into a lucid dream after achieving sleep paralysis is to imagine that your spirit is climbing a rope to get out of your body.
Another is to imagine your spirit laying on its back a few feet above you. Pretend you are the spirit, and imagine that you're rocking from side to side in the air. When you get enough momentum, pretend to roll over off your bed (As the spirit). Then you will supposedly be standing next to your bed as the spirit (Your body is still on the bed).
Can anyone confirm these methods of separation working?
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Post by cooltiger413 on Apr 22, 2010 19:39:04 GMT -5
While trying the WILD last night i went into sleep paralysis, but forgot to open my eyes, causing me to fall asleep. :-( I tried the method for the first time last night and the same exact thing happened to me. However, I found it fairly easy to do and will hopfully not mess up this time. Anyway, as with trey, I am also now remembering me dreams, which is huge progress me for me.
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Post by DubiousKing on Apr 23, 2010 8:05:28 GMT -5
I got ridiculously close to getting the WILD method to work last night! On about my third try I began to feel extremely light, and it felt like with every breath I took my body was starting to float. I could feel REM setting in and it felt kind of like an invisible force was pulling on something behind my face (I almost want to say the force was pulling on my "soul"). I didn't know what to do and panicked, which abruptly ended the experience.
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Post by Trey on Apr 23, 2010 8:23:42 GMT -5
O.O Simply amazing.
Lol, Leo is looking at us like, "n00bs don't know how to WILD" xD
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Helmet
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Post by Helmet on Apr 23, 2010 10:20:15 GMT -5
I've been having a lot of trouble getting into dreaming. I would do the sleep paralysis technique and would always fall asleep without any dreams, my whole body will feel tingly and heavy, but I would always fall asleep.
Any idea's on how to help?
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Post by Leo McGinnis on Apr 23, 2010 12:00:45 GMT -5
O.O Simply amazing. Lol, Leo is looking at us like, "n00bs don't know how to WILD" xD Well, if you'd read my post more carefully you'd have noticed that I said I only successfully did it like 6 times before. It's simply a hard trick to use to induce lucid dreams. I have gotten to the transitional stage many times before, but either fell asleep or woke up from thinking too much. I know HOW to, but I can't do it very well (yet). Once you succeed for the first time, you start to understand how your subconscious works. Trust me, I'm by no means an experienced WILD'er. I've been having a lot of trouble getting into dreaming. I would do the sleep paralysis technique and would always fall asleep without any dreams, my whole body will feel tingly and heavy, but I would always fall asleep. Any idea's on how to help? Well, when you're WILD'ing (and failing), generally one of two things happens: 1. Not being awake enough.If you've slept for 5-7 hours already (best time to WILD), you're bound to be very sleepy. If you're not awake enough you'll simply fall asleep normally while trying to WILD. 2. You're too awake.You're so awake that your body doesn't fall asleep. So, some general WILD tips (note: I did not invent these, I learned these from various lucid dreaming forums, and I take no credit for them): - Be sure to have already slept for 5-7 hours. This is because REM stages get longer as the night goes on. WILD very rarely works when you go to bed at night, because most of your dreaming happens much, much later. - Wake yourself up a little when about to WILD (but not too much). Like, go to the bathroom, drink some water. Don't do anything too active. You can try reading for 10 minutes or so. This is to help your mind be a little more awake, while keeping your body relaxed (this is key! body needs to be relaxed!) - When actually starting to WILD, use some mental trick to keep yourself occupied. Something light, that doesn't take much brain power. The most common advice is to simply count (in your head, not out loud) "1, I'm dreaming... 2, I'm dreaming..." and so on. Or you can count your breaths. Alternately, if you just woke up from a dream, you could keep picturing the dream in your mind's eye. When you WILD you might enter the same dream again, only now you know you're dreaming! - Be comfortable. Sometimes I skip the waking myself up part and just remain in the position I woke up in (risk of falling asleep is greater, but for some it works better). Don't move after you start to WILD. Remember, your body needs to fall asleep, but your mind needs to stay "awake." I got ridiculously close to getting the WILD method to work last night! On about my third try I began to feel extremely light, and it felt like with every breath I took my body was starting to float. I could feel REM setting in and it felt kind of like an invisible force was pulling on something behind my face (I almost want to say the force was pulling on my "soul"). I didn't know what to do and panicked, which abruptly ended the experience. Well, in the future, keep in mind that all that you sense and feel is "not real". I can understand the panic, because many people never experience this, as their mind falls asleep before their body does, and so they miss this bit. Nothing can happen. This stage does not last very long (the sensations). For me it sometimes feels like I'm being electrocuted (not in a painful way, but I feel shocks all over my body). This is all normal. In some cases it's just sleep paralysis setting in. Important:If you fail the first time, or even for several days in a row, DO NOT GIVE UP. This takes time. You need to get a feel for yourself. You need to "learn" how your body falling asleep works. Don't stay awake too long trying to WILD. For example, let's say you use this schedule: 11:00pm - go to sleep 05:00am - wake up to WILD 05:05am - start the process 05:25am - still awake <--- just stop here and go to sleep normally, it's not worth losing too much sleep over However, if you wake up later at, say, 6:30 and you know you can still sleep for a few more hours, feel free to give it another go. Finally, if you get to the point where you feel you're in the transitional stage (let's say you're starting to see colors moving to visual patterns, and you might hear some sounds), watch/listen passively. Just let the visions and sounds do what they must. Don't try to force things (this, more often than not, will just wake you up). Funny storyThis one time I woke up from some dream and went straight back to sleep. However, in my mind's eye I saw a kind of loading bar (like a download progress bar or something) in DOS style. It slowly went to completion and when the bar was full I was in a lucid dream. I didn't even intend for this to happen. WILDs can happen accidentally, too. General lucid dreaming tipMake sure you can actually recall dreams. Get to the point where you remember at least one or two dreams a night. Lucid dreams can be forgotten just like normal ones! You may have already had a lucid dream that you simply don't remember. For this reason, many keep a dream journal. In general, just go to bed with the intention to remember your dreams. Good luck!
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Helmet
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Post by Helmet on Apr 23, 2010 21:39:50 GMT -5
Yo Leo, one question: Can you WILD without getting the 5-7 hours of sleep? Is it possible to be very, very tired and WILD?
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Post by Trey on Apr 23, 2010 21:59:10 GMT -5
HelmetAfter some research I've acquired some tips that might help us. 1. Eat LIGHT. Don't do this on a full stomach. Notice that you can't breathe normally on a full stomach? 2. Don't use heavy blankets. Something nice and light 3. wear comfortable pajamas. 4. Don't drink caffeine at least 6 hours before. 12 hours is ideal Some of these tips make a lot of sense! With some of them, I don't think I'd ever think of it, lol; Such as the caffeine thing and blankets thing Well, I'm going to bed. I'll let you know my results in the morning
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Helmet
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Post by Helmet on Apr 24, 2010 9:43:27 GMT -5
MORNING EVERYONE!
I woke up remembering a semi-vivid dream. I was talking to my mom over the phone, she seemed to be on vacation, over the phone, my mom taught me how to make a folder protected with a password. I went over to my computer and did it. Soon my dad showed me an application that's kind of like Google earth except it just shows a long line bouncing around. Soon I started to write a letter to my mother, and so did my dad. Mine was one page, and his was two. For some reason we had to write our passwords on the pieces of paper (I guess it had something to do with the password folder)
...Then I woke up
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Post by Leo McGinnis on Apr 24, 2010 18:01:22 GMT -5
Yo Leo, one question: Can you WILD without getting the 5-7 hours of sleep? Is it possible to be very, very tired and WILD? I wrote a very nice and detailed post, but it got lost or something. Ugh... To answer the question: it's not technically impossible to WILD without first getting a few hours of sleep. However, it's exponentially more difficult. To understand why you need to know what the stages of sleep are: www.dreamviews.com/sleepstages.phpLong story short: REM periods (where you dream) are too short and infrequent when you first go to bed. The first is only about 10 minutes long and doesn't come until after 90 minutes of deep sleep. After a few sleep cycles (each lasting about 100 minutes), the REM stage is longer (up to an hour), and you dream more. This is the stage you need to be close to in order to WILD. Let's say you're in a REM phase, after having slept for a few hours. You wake up from a dream 20 minutes into the REM phase. When you go back to sleep, you pick up from where you left off (your brain "saves" where you were in your sleep cycle unless you're awake for several hours). That means about 40 minutes of REM sleep. When you WILD at this point, as soon as you begin falling asleep, you'll immediately go back to dreaming. So, do yourself a favor, and don't try to WILD unless you've already slept for a few hours. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely that, frankly, it's not worth spending a lot of time on. Also, gratz on the nice dream. Keep "intending" to remember them from now on. Just say to yourself, before you go to sleep "tonight I will remember all my dreams" for a minute or two.
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