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Post by Lex on Jul 8, 2010 19:27:49 GMT -5
Alex, what's so hard about that question? Can't you just anwser it? For the SECOND time. I already answered your question. Please read. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I think I backed up my claim, but just for you I will do it one more time. Here is a definition of a mental disorder : "•(psychiatry) a psychological disorder of thought or emotion; a more neutral term than mental illness" Okayy.... Now what is the difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual? The difference is that a homosexual is looking for a pertner of the same sex, heterosexual is looking for someone of an opposite sex. Both of them do it for the same to reproduce. No. You are taking it as though homosexuals or bisexuals INTEND to reproduce with their partners. The answer is no: we are not stupid. We might be different, but we're not STUPID. Now what is the point of having sex? Its to reproduce. Pleasure is just what gets us to do it, but the point is to reproduce. As a homosexual, you will most likely never end up reproducing as opposide sex is not what you desire. How is that not a disorder of thought or emotion? This is going agains what keeps a given species alive. Technically, given this standpoint, it would be a mental disorder to like eating candy -- as it gives little-to-no nutritional value. This brings me to one more point if this is not a dissorder, then what would happen if everyone on the planet would be homosexual? We would die out, and this is not something that is considered normal. The point is that we're NOT. As a species, we are not entirely made up of homosexuals, obviously. Think of it as a natural form of population control if you will... It may not be a brain scan, but how can you say this is not a valid point that I'm making here? Because you neglect the MAJOR factor here, which is making you look like an ignorant fool to everyone here: HUMAN EMOTION AND PREFERENCE. This has little to nothing to do with reproduction. I don't INTEND to have children of my own if I end up marrying another guy. The main point is that unless you have some sort of conclusive evidence other than convoluted logic that denies the human persona, thought process and ultimately emotion -- then there is NOTHING you can use to prove your point. You're looking at everything as though you're a walking science lab, and a flawed one at that. You're denying emotion, which is, after all, WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. I conclude my discussion with something else: Dolphins have sex for pleasure, they're one of the known species other than humans that do. They also are known to have homosexual relations, and to band together with the same dolphins as life partners. We are not alone in this love business. It isn't such an anomaly, after all.
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Post by krzych32 on Jul 8, 2010 20:16:44 GMT -5
"For the SECOND time. I already answered your question. Please read. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall."
You anwsered my question by saying:"Let's not get into paedophilia.".
"No. You are taking it as though homosexuals or bisexuals INTEND to reproduce with their partners. The answer is no: we are not stupid. We might be different, but we're not STUPID."
Intensions are of no importance, what matterts is what you do and the effect of your actions. We are just machines of the nature.
"Technically, given this standpoint, it would be a mental disorder to like eating candy -- as it gives little-to-no nutritional value."
That is just plain wrong, we want to eat candy because our body crave suger. Suger gives you a quick boost in energy, our ancestors we programmed to crave for it because it is one of the things that is very hard to find in nature. The problem now is that there is more suger then we can/should consume, but our primary instincts are still the same.
"The point is that we're NOT. As a species, we are not entirely made up of homosexuals, obviously. Think of it as a natural form of population control if you will..."
We all have blue hair (nothing happens), we all are shorter(nothing happens) we all are homosexual (the haumanity is over). Also your last sentace is so wrong, if that was true then % of homosexuals in society would be in some kind of a relationsip to the overall populations.
"You're denying emotion, which is, after all, WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT."
No, we are programmed by nature to perform tasks, emotions is only what makes us do them.
"I conclude my discussion with something else: Dolphins have sex for pleasure, they're one of the known species other than humans that do. They also are known to have homosexual relations, and to band together with the same dolphins as life partners. "
Not sure where you are going with this one, animals don't have mental disorders?
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Post by Lex on Jul 8, 2010 20:26:54 GMT -5
Look, I know you somehow think you're all high and mighty in your tower of all-knowingness, but your assertions are blatantly flawed and they demonstrate a terrible misunderstanding of human sociology, emotion and mentality. You can say whatever you want, but I guarantee that not too many people are listening and accepting what you're saying.
Please tell me, how old are you? What grade level are you in, or are you an adult?
And for the THIRD TIME. I DID answer your question. I prefaced the statement with "Let's not get into paedophilia." because I had no desire to derail the topic. Get a new thread if you want to discuss that.
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Post by Ryan on Jul 8, 2010 20:33:01 GMT -5
>.<
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 20:37:39 GMT -5
krzych, you are starting to look more like a douche bag than people who say gays are going to hell.
Now, Ego-Dystonic Homosexuality, where anxiety is brought to high levels due to wanting to change ones own sexual orientation, may be a mental disorder, but normal homosexuality is not.
By your logic, people who are unable to reproduce due to physical ailments have a mental disorder if they still have sex.
Either way, your point is not followed at all by professionals. The American Psychiatric Association declassified Homosexuality as a "mental disorder" in 1973, and the American Psychological Association did the same in 1975.
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Post by krzych32 on Jul 8, 2010 21:48:03 GMT -5
"krzych, you are starting to look more like a douche bag than people who say gays are going to hell."
Aren't you being bias? If you read the whole conversation you will notice that Alex did attack me on a personal level, he actually deleted the worst stuff shortly after.
" By your logic, people who are unable to reproduce due to physical ailments have a mental disorder if they still have sex."
No, they still do it because their mind works in a proper way, how it was programmed.
"Either way, your point is not followed at all by professionals. The American Psychiatric Association declassified Homosexuality as a "mental disorder" in 1973, and the American Psychological Association did the same in 1975. "
This is why I brought up the "Greece", if something is considered a standard, we have no reason to question it. I could find half a dozen threads like that on this forum, but for some reason only here this argument is being used.
Alex, I'm 20, studying accounting (don't see how this has to do anything with this conversation).
"You can say whatever you want, but I guarantee that not too many people are listening and accepting what you're saying."
Ok, try going into a church and advocating your agenda there. See if they listen. My point is that I realize that this is a forum dominated by progressive teens, but this is why I''m here, its no fun discussing a topic with people who agree with you.
And with noone listening, when I came here the poll was like 42 yes 0 No 2 (or3) I don't know (its not correct, but I think that was it) Now there are people that actually voted no, just saying....
And my question was an Yes or NO question. I could also talk about how I fell about a given topic but not really anwsering a simple question.
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Post by Lex on Jul 8, 2010 21:55:42 GMT -5
You're 20 and you study accounting, do you? And that makes you a psychologist how?
Again, until you provide evidence for your extraordinary claims rather than just pinning it on some medical conspiracy and the homosexual agenda, there is NO discussion whatsoever. Your so-called points are laughable, because you fundamentally misunderstand the term "mental disorder". It isn't something YOU define, it's something medical professionals define after examining evidence. Do not ask for anyone to prove a negative.
My God, I think that's the fourth time I've said that, and yet you keep on babbling.
And don't you DARE pull the "oh, I'm offended" card on me. Your posts have been nothing but blatant attacks on the homosexual and bisexual community. You can sugar coat it with "I don't have a problem with them" and everything, but you're directly painting me and several other members of this forum as mentally ill just because we HAPPEN to like something else than you.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 8, 2010 22:01:21 GMT -5
You're 20 and you study accounting, do you? And that makes you a psychologist how? and what may i ask is your age and profession?
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Post by Lex on Jul 8, 2010 22:03:44 GMT -5
You're 20 and you study accounting, do you? And that makes you a psychologist how? and what may i ask is your age and profession? I am 16 and unemployed. My point was that he was making an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence, which made me assume that he could, perhaps, be a psychologist with actual background on proving his claims. Instead, he is attempting to have me prove a negative whilst rejecting my request for evidence.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 8, 2010 22:15:39 GMT -5
krzych32 your arguments may be valid...you are just presenting them wrong. i know what you mean to say...think about your arguments and repost them. operative word being "think". i do not think it is necessarily a mental illness. it is simply a preference based on several reasons. i do not believe it is genetic, however it is not a mental illness. honestly the only arguments against homosexuality, can be religious ones. once you set aside religion, there really is no reason to be against homosexuality. from a religious standpoint i disapprove of homosexuality, or more specifically, gay sex to be crude, however it's not a matter of liking or disliking gay PEOPLE. everyone has things they do wrong, and being gay, to a religious person, is just a person doing something wrong. that does NOT mean that the PERSON is to be hated, looked down upon, or ostracized, simply the practice. i don't have the energy to present, and defend the philosophical religious reasons why homosexuality is wrong, but i assure you there are reasons other than just "the bible says so. krzych32 came close, his arguments were just quite flawed. if anyone else knows the reasons, or can figure them out, then post them. alex Christopher you are taking this personally, and i completely understand that. however, if you want to have a proper debate, you must disassociate yourself from the topic. do not take anything said here personally. present your rebuttals, arguments, and ideas as if you are a third party observer, completely disassociated from the issue. you're doing a good job, just try to set aside the personal aspect. it will get you nowhere. /me wanders back out of the debate.
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Post by krzych32 on Jul 8, 2010 22:22:52 GMT -5
don't care if I am rightDude, I really do not. If I am wrong I am wrong, that's all. I just voiced my opinion, you attacked me that I have no backing for it, I stated my reasoning and you just keep attacking me because I refuse to agree with you. I could call you "not an expert" at every topic that you go into, but I don't do that, like everything on this forum this is just a debate between random people. Why was this thread here in the first place if arguing against it is WRONG?
"And don't you DARE pull the "oh, I'm offended" card on me. Your posts have been nothing but blatant attacks on the homosexual and bisexual community. You can sugar coat it with "I don't have a problem with them" and everything, but you're directly painting me and several other members of this forum as mentally ill just because we HAPPEN to like something else than you. "
Calm down, I said I have nothing agains gay's because I don't.
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Post by krzych32 on Jul 8, 2010 22:27:57 GMT -5
One more thing Alex, there may actually be something wrong with you, its called immaturity.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 8, 2010 22:28:31 GMT -5
seriously...get back to proper debating...you two are accomplishing nothing like this.
first of all, allow for the age difference. second of all, this is completely uncalled for. third of all, you say that to a sixteen year old...you are 20 apparently...act as such. thank you.
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Post by Rob on Jul 8, 2010 22:29:52 GMT -5
I think it's best if you two heed bombmaniac's advice and stay away from making this too personal. You have a decent debate going and it's headed down a shady road here. The personal/character assaults add nothing to the debate and work to only make it more hostile (for no reason).
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Post by Lex on Jul 8, 2010 22:40:58 GMT -5
I was just asking for evidence, which is something that I have not been provided. I am not about to prove a negative, which is what I've been asked to do. I'm still waiting on him to provide any medical evidence to support his claims. I don't want the conspiracy theory of "it's just part of the homosexual agenda to make it not classified as a mental disorder". No. I want facts. That's all I've asked for. I haven't gotten any.
I apologize that I have made this a bit personal, but could you imagine a black man trying to argue that being black is perfectly normal to a Conservative Mormon who believes that black people are cursed?
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faeryx
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Probably not.
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Post by faeryx on Jul 8, 2010 22:47:27 GMT -5
In sort of a succinct and basic view on the subject. I am a Christian and it is biblically incorrect for people to be homosexual. I am however okay with it. It does not bother me in anyway, and my oldest sister is a lesbian, so I am around it every day. I find it unfathomable how people can argue so long about such a mundane thing as this. It has existed for years and I find it hard to believe that now, of all times in history, people are beginning to have a problem with it. Except Muslims, they stone homosexuals, which even for most Christians is extreme behavior.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 8, 2010 23:12:13 GMT -5
oh, i completely understand WHY it happened, Alex, and there is no need to apologize, I'm just giving sound debating advice.
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Post by James McClelland on Jul 8, 2010 23:14:14 GMT -5
homosexuality is something ur born with you are either gay or straight thts just how it goes. you cant be straight fora 20 years of ur life and switch to homosexuality. You aren't born with a sexual preference. Also, some people do chance in their life. My mom's side of the family has quite the history of being straight, then gay, then straight again, etc. Also, I am perfectly fine with people being homosexual. Unless they start hitting on a straight guy, that's a little too far.
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Post by Toygerzrock on Jul 8, 2010 23:19:28 GMT -5
I have little more than minimal knowledge of Christianity and the like, but my thinking is that the whole point that Jesus was trying to make is love over everything else. Love is love, and we need more of it. That's why I don't understand people who are homophobic or otherwise gay-bashing. I get that some people don't agree with the lifestyle, but that doesn't make a homosexual person a bad person. Just my 2 cents. (:
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Post by krzych32 on Jul 8, 2010 23:22:54 GMT -5
The questionI have asked was not anwsered also Alex.
And don't compare yourself to a black minority, even nazis were playing a victim card. But that last comment was uncalled for, I apologise. .
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