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Post by mashuga31 on Jul 14, 2010 4:37:15 GMT -5
Asher is right, and I'll be damned if anyone trys to prove him wrong. We 'are' going to change the world. Those who are with me, we should start work immediately.
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Post by mashuga31 on Jul 14, 2010 4:39:36 GMT -5
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 4:42:34 GMT -5
thanks for telling us that bree, same to you. read my last post above. You reply tells me that you didn't actually do what I asked. Seriously, read the values and decide which ones you need to work on... because you definitely need some work.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 4:43:29 GMT -5
read my second to last post bree...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?
i'll stop nitpicking of you do...
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theeverbored
Meteor
if a nerd has no avatar, does she still have a face?
Posts: 81
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Post by theeverbored on Jul 14, 2010 4:43:58 GMT -5
lol I think we're fighting while somehow agreeing... I honestly just couldn't understand where you stood Bree. I'm glad I finally know where you are coming from. I do agree that we need to change ourselves before we change the world but what does that mean? I think changing ourselves is something we do privately, sort of in real life, but we're here on a forum of people. What's the point of being with people if all we're doing is focusing on ourselves? While we change ourselves we should be changing the community. That seems to be the point of coming together. So that's what I meant by, "why aren't we doing something?" As a community we've grown very far in the last few months but it feels like we've hit a wall and need to push for more change, more development, and more experimentation. Again I hope I didn't offend you. Steph Not everyone still needs to change themselves. Several people on this forum are at the point where they just need to help the community change, and help other individuals change. And helping the community change and other individuals will, in turn, help them change even more. What I'm saying is that people are together not to change themselves, that doesn't require anyone. While we're together we're a community. I understand if you don't feel like you should be helping change until you have changed yourself but then, why are you discouraging other? Even if you don't feel in like you're in the position to help change things couldn't you be a little more supportive of those who are?
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 4:57:33 GMT -5
community building is all well and good, and it is definitely important. but up to a point. building a community for the sake of building a community is circular. what is the point...we become a strong community...so we can become a stronger community...so we can become a stronger community so we can...? *coughchangetheworldcough* you see what i did there? i gave a reason for the community building. so while you may be right that we MAY need to continue building our community, you must understand that we DO need a goal, and a purpose to focus on. otherwise the community building is pointless. we are building this community. we have been building this community. you've been here for the past eight months. you've seen it. but we must not lose sight of our goal and purpose. what sets us apart from other online communities and forums? why are we working so hard to build this individual community? because we have this purpose and goal, because we want to change our world. after eight months of focusing only on the means and not the ends...who can blame people for becoming a little restless? who can blame people for wanting to begin acting upon our purpose? is it really inconceivable that we should want to achieve that goal? you may be satisfied in just building a community where it is fun to hang out, and where due to our bonds we may end up doing something amazing, but for some people it is simply not enough. for some people leaving that to chance is simply unacceptable. some of us feel a need to take an active role in the fulfillment of our purpose and goal. for some people, a short term focus is not enough. some people want more. that is why projects like the manifesto pop up. that is why people are upset with dan's project. these people are not content with simply building community for it's own sake. they want to build community for it's purpose. please try and understand this bree. as for your negative outlook...namely that so few cannot influence so many, do you really believe that to be true? can one person not change the world? have you never heard of Martin Luther King? have you never heard of Mohandas Gandhi? have you never heard of George washington? need i go on?!? one person CAN change their world. history has proven this point. we are more than one person, we are a community of thousands. while we may not all be as active as the next member, we are a large community, and our numbers have great potential. can one man influence the world? yes. can we not then assume that 20 can influence 3000? and by extension that 3000, the world? think impossibly big. do it. try it. as william arthur ward said, "if you can imagine it you can achieve it; if you can dream it you can become it". imagine it. dream it. we can achieve it. we can become it. i believe we are a community like no other on the internet. we have quite a collection of people here, of many ages, many backgrounds, many interests, and many abilities. if we cannot change our world...who can? (I'm replying to this post as I read. I'm reacting to little things as I read. If it's hard to understand what I'm reacting to, sorry. I don't feel like going through and quoting every line. <_<)WTF. I really hate when people don't read my posts. Did I not say, countless times, that we need to change/build the community SO WE CAN change the world? oh my god. Who has lost sight of our goal? what. I don't think anyone has. That's in your head. again, wtf... it's like you didn't read my post. Where in the heck did I say I want to build this community for the sake of building this community? Because I'm pretty sure I can quote myself about 10 times saying we should build this community so we can change the world. No one can change the world alone. If you seriously think any of those people did it completely alone, you need a srs reality check. They all had help. They all had friends. They all had people that believed in them. They all had people that instilled values and beliefs and goals into their heads. While, yes, they were the ones that did the a lot of the work, they never could have done that work without the help of others. Also, I think that's where one of your problems lie. You expected Dan Brown and his "Super Secret Project" to be an MLK or Ghandi or Washington (obviously not as big of proportions, but I'm just using your own examples). And then were disappointed when it wasn't... lolgetoverit.
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 5:00:37 GMT -5
I understand if you don't feel like you should be helping change until you have changed yourself but then, why are you discouraging other? Even if you don't feel in like you're in the position to help change things couldn't you be a little more supportive of those who are? Again, you're missing my point. I actually do feel I should be helping to change the world, if the opportunity is presented to me by this community. I obviously wouldn't pass it up if there was opportunity. That'd be crazy. And I'm not discouraging anyone from changing the world. Please, stop getting that impression or I'm going to punch a baby in the face. I'm discouraging anyone from COMPLAINING about NOT changing the world, when they could, instead... ACTUALLY be doing something.
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Post by swan on Jul 14, 2010 5:07:13 GMT -5
can one person not change the world? have you never heard of Martin Luther King? have you never heard of Mohandas Gandhi? have you never heard of George washington? need i go on?!? one person CAN change their world. history has proven this point. we are more than one person, we are a community of thousands. while we may not all be as active as the next member, we are a large community, and our numbers have great potential. Those are some remarkably charismatic individuals you mentioned and they all managed to develop a group of followers who were willing to listen to what they had to say. I mean no disrespect to any members of the Pogotribe, but I think I can safely assume that no one here currently meets those qualifications. The closest thing we have is Dan, and for the time being he has thrown that potential aside in favor of his big project (but that's a discussion for another thread). The point is that we are but one forum among hundreds of thousands. We have no influence outside our own community, and our connections to our most influential member (Dan) seem to be decreasing. We cannot expect to change the world in any significant fashion in such a short time frame, but to my knowledge no one here is saying that we will never be in a position to impact the world. I think the manifesto will be a big step in the right direction (although I have no idea what its contents are) but we will need to continue growing. So far we may have built a community that has not changed the world in the least, but the majority of our members want to change the world, I think the problem appears to be that some members feel more ready to do that then others. Even if our focus for now is simply to grow as a community, we are doing more then that. We are gathering more and more people who desire to change the world and by doing so we increase the pool of resources that the projects can draw upon. The creation of projects is important but so is the follow through, and it would appear that, for the time being, we do not have enough members to achieve this. This does not mean that we should sit around until our community grows to a certain number, as there is nothing wrong with creating projects, but do not allow your expectations to exceed what we are capable of as a community, as it ultimately just hinders what we are trying to achieve.
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Post by Speckley on Jul 14, 2010 5:08:42 GMT -5
Disclaimer: this post isn't directed at any one person in particular. Kthx. Hey bree, maybe you shouldn't be getting so worked up about this y'know? So we wanna change the world. So a little kid wanted to be an actor. So he did. So a man wanted to win the olympics. so he did. So a scientist dreamt of leading society into a better tomarrow. So he did. Let's face it. You can't stop those who dream from dreaming and you can't stop those who do from doing. I would like to point out something about the examples that you've given here... In order to get to that point, the actor, the olympic medalist, and the scientist had to figure out what their goal was. They had to figure out what they were passionate about, and what they needed to do to get to that point. And so do we. But we also need to stay connected as a community. When we are figuring out our goals, and our passions (the tribe's passions, not necessarily any individual's passions), we should not neglect community-building. We should hold our goals, and our community, in equal value. (And I realize that no one has said that we should forget about community building. This is just something that I want to say. This is something that I've been thinking about.) In regards to changing ourselves... I believe that change should happen on a personal level, and on a tribal level. The community can be inspired by the change that one person makes in themselves. At the same time, a person can be inspired by a change in the community. While it's true that some people may need time to think (on their own) about what kind of change they want to see in themselves, I believe that we can inspire each other to change. Hopefully, for the better. I don't see why we can't start working on small projects that help the world, and strengthen our community, at the same time. And I see where some of you are coming from, thinking that we are currently focussing on community-building too much, and not focussing on making steps towards bigger things. Well... let's take those first steps! Let's hike that path to the top of the mountain.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Jul 14, 2010 5:13:05 GMT -5
My question is: Why are we debating this now? The manifesto is almost done, and soon we'll have a noble cause. I think once we have those, then we can start changing things, and quite frankly, I have no idea why or what you're arguing over :/
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Post by Speckley on Jul 14, 2010 5:15:43 GMT -5
My question is: Why are we debating this now? The manifesto is almost done, and soon we'll have a noble cause. I think once we have those, then we can start changing things, and quite frankly, I have no idea why or what you're arguing over :/ For me? Personally? I think this is a worthwhile discussion/debate.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 5:18:23 GMT -5
obviously there is a difference between the short term and long term, however we must always focus on the long term as well.
as for charismatic people...do you really think we don't have any charismatic people on SPOTM?
when i say change the world, i MEAN in the long term, but that we should keep it in our sights while focusing on the short term. short term? we get the manifesto. we go from there.
bree...set aside dan's project for now, and focus on us. assume that we never had a secret project to look forward to, i think we would still be in the same p[lace. people feeling unfulfilled.
MLK, and washington had people to help them...and we don't...? 3000 people...that's people...
i know what you said bree, i know you said we should build community shile we change our world, but what if the process of building the perfect community is in fact intertwined with changing the world? what if that is the road we must take to BECOME the community we want to be? why must one be absolutely complete before we begin the other? why can they not complement each other?
as for what swan said about dan leaving affecting our ability to change the world, by cutting our connection to outside communities, this is something i have been discussing at great length with several of our strongest members. a community like ours DOES need a leader, and i DO believe it is wrong for dan to leave like this. i understand he wants us to become more independent, and make decisions as our own, but communities need a unifying force in addition to a unifying purpose. we do not have that unifying force...seeing as dan has left...or is leaving.
assuming dan does NOT come back...and keeps rejecting his responsibilities to the community, we will just have to go on without him. we will create our own networks, make our own contacts. maybe we will not achieve as much as we could have, but we still can achieve.
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theeverbored
Meteor
if a nerd has no avatar, does she still have a face?
Posts: 81
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Post by theeverbored on Jul 14, 2010 5:19:24 GMT -5
You're exactly right! but how did that community really grow? Did MLKJ start his community, wait until it grew, and then started the civil rights movement? No, the community formed when people fought for a common cause. We need a common goal, and a project to fight for before we as a community can start doing and stop talking. Without that we'll loose momentum and fade away in to the oblivion of the internet. We'll become a squabbling gossip club with no purpose other than our own entertainment. Personally I don't mind someone cussing me out over a debate that I believe in (don't take any hints anyone), but I don't want to waste my time on a forum that just fights. I think that's what's happening with the drama that's been starting up everywhere. In the beginning we were breaking new ground and that was a mission enough to keep us united, it's not any more... That's why I'm writing the manifesto, and in a collab channel, and in the skype calls, and on the forum.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Jul 14, 2010 5:23:39 GMT -5
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 5:24:52 GMT -5
My question is: Why are we debating this now? The manifesto is almost done, and soon we'll have a noble cause. I think once we have those, then we can start changing things, and quite frankly, I have no idea why or what you're arguing over :/ lol One person working on the Manifesto told me their guess is about two more months (this person also told me not to quote them on that, but they can get over it XD). I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm sitting around for two months (or even one month. or one week.) waiting for something OTHER PEOPLE claim is going to be awesome and change/fix everything. I thought it was a mistake for you guys to enter into that mindset before the Secret Project announcement, and I'm not going to make the same one. Unless this epicly amazing bound-to-fix-everything (DOUBT IT) Manifesto is being released tomorrow, this discussion is worth having. And what makes you so sure we'll have a Noble Cause soon? o.o
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Post by Insane_Zang on Jul 14, 2010 5:26:32 GMT -5
Did you like, not see the pogotok?
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 5:28:25 GMT -5
do something yourself then there are reasons the manifesto isn't done yet...writers quit, we got new ones...we redid the outline..that's irrelevant. quit complaining about the people who ARE doing something. you can join us if you want, there's plenty more work to do i would like to say something about the manifesto. it is not a magic book that will rise up and feed Africans. it is simply a definition of a goal. a definition, i believe, we sorely need.
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 5:32:19 GMT -5
You guys still seem to think that I'm suggesting we focus 100% on community building and completely forget about changing the world in the process. No. I'm suggesting we stop doing this: FREAKING THE FUCK OUT BECAUSE OMFG WE'VE BEEN HERE 8 FUCKING MONTHS AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED AND WE SHOULD CHANGE THE WORLD RIGHT NOW I'M SO IMPATIENT WHY ISN'T THIS EASIER WHY DO WE SUCK SO MUCH WHY ISN'T *THAT KID* DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT? WHY AREN'T *THE ADMINS* DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT? WHY ISN'T *DAN* DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT? WHY DO *I* HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT? WTF. The whole "change the world before you change yourself" was explaining the REASON we're having so much trouble changing the world in a satisfying amount of time.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jul 14, 2010 5:34:57 GMT -5
sooo...you never noticed any apathy on the moon...never? are you noticing a difference now? people motivated, and mobilizing to try and change the world any way they can? which would you rather, a motivated tribe? or an apathetic one? its not that we hadn't done it yet. its that no one was even thinking about it. people are thinking about it now. thats a good start!
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Post by Breepop on Jul 14, 2010 5:36:00 GMT -5
do something yourself then there are reasons the manifesto isn't done yet...writers quit, we got new ones...we redid the outline..that's irrelevant. quit complaining about the people who ARE doing something. you can join us if you want, there's plenty more work to do i would like to say something about the manifesto. it is not a magic book that will rise up and feed Africans. it is simply a definition of a goal. a definition, i believe, we sorely need. I am. I'm doing what I think it's important for me to do. Just because that doesn't reflect in massive amounts of world changing projects doesn't mean I'm not doing something. For the 78th time, I'm not complaining about anyone doing anything. I'm complaining about anyone complaining about not doing anything (<--lol'd). It's good to hear that you know that. Please stop acting or implying or suggesting that it will... people might get the wrong idea.
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