Flappy
Star
Grrr! But not really....
Posts: 577
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Post by Flappy on Jan 16, 2011 16:20:47 GMT -5
Where did the dinosaurs come from that were stomping around? There should be a lot of stuff you don't understand. Look Sean and trinton , there are a lot of things we cant explain. That's why it's called faith. It's what the catholic religion is based on. We don't need proof of anything because there CAN'T be proof of everything. I know there is a God. He helps me everyday even when i don't realize it, and i thank him. God loves you, and you will have to listen for him. If you listen hard enough he will call. Just look out for him.n God Bless. NMS-Mix your reasoning is extremely flawed. Explain how you know there is a god. Because you felt his presence? Because you believe? Sorry, try again. The fact is, god is one of those things that can't be proven. Furthermore, god is one of those things that doesn't need to exist. In fact, if religion was completely abolished, and everyone was an atheist, our society, our earth, would most-likely be far more advanced than it is today. Religion, by definition, is the stopping of progression. Religion says that we don't need to look for answers, that we don't need to look for truth, that we don't need to think. We have a book to think for us.
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Post by krzych32 on Jan 16, 2011 19:13:44 GMT -5
Where did the dinosaurs come from that were stomping around? There should be a lot of stuff you don't understand. Look Sean and trinton , there are a lot of things we cant explain. That's why it's called faith. It's what the catholic religion is based on. We don't need proof of anything because there CAN'T be proof of everything. I know there is a God. He helps me everyday even when i don't realize it, and i thank him. God loves you, and you will have to listen for him. If you listen hard enough he will call. Just look out for him.n God Bless. NMS-Mix your reasoning is extremely flawed. Explain how you know there is a god. Because you felt his presence? Because you believe? Sorry, try again. The fact is, god is one of those things that can't be proven. Furthermore, god is one of those things that doesn't need to exist. In fact, if religion was completely abolished, and everyone was an atheist, our society, our earth, would most-likely be far more advanced than it is today. Religion, by definition, is the stopping of progression. Religion says that we don't need to look for answers, that we don't need to look for truth, that we don't need to think. We have a book to think for us. Your second paragraph is highly inaccurate. Many times in history religion have pushed civilizations forward.
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Post by Captain Giggle Squash on Jan 18, 2011 16:58:38 GMT -5
How do you explain nature? During the big bang all of the matter just happened to form into trees, water, air, earth? Yes mathematically there has to be many places in the universe that supports life, but how many have life on them? Animals, with so many unique abilities. Humans, with so much, and thier brain, which is an amazing thing in of itself. There's my proof that god exists. There is math to prove that. Have you ever heard of the Drake equation? It is an equation, based off of theories and predictions and may not be accurate, that calculates the number of intelligent civilizations possibly trying to communicate in the world. It does this by taking the number of stars that are created each year, and multiplies it by the number of stars with planets, number of those planets able to hold life, number of those planets that DO have life, by the amount of that life that is intelligent, by the number of that intelligent life that is trying to communicate, by the length of time that will happen: N=R X fP X nE X fE X fI X fC X L. N= Communicating Intelligent Life R= Rate of star formation in this galaxy a year based on years of observations fP= Fraction of those stars that have planets nE= Number of those planets that can hold life based on observations, calculations and hypotheses fE= Fraction of those planets that HAVE life fI= Fraction of that life that is Intelligent fC= Fraction of that life trying to communicate with other intelligent life L= Length of time that communication will continue Y= Universal variable for "Year" when used in the context of talking about lengths of time By this equation replacing the variables with numbers that are gathered by observations and hypotheses: N=10 X .5 X 2 X 1 X 0.01 X 0.01 X 10,000Y, then the math calculates that N=10. There are approximately 10 planets in our known galaxy that have intelligent life that is trying to communicate with us. Now one would think that just the thought of that disproves God all together. But how did they get there? How did we get here? How can intelligent, self aware, conscious beings come into existence by the random nature (according to my biology teacher evolution is random and that things don't evolve because they need to adapt) of evolution? There is a theory in science that you have a better chance to get a tornado to randomly pass through a junk yard, and with the random parts flying around, assemble a full sized, fully operational jumbo jet airplane, than you have to randomly assemble the DNA structure that would evolve into the humans we are today in any primordial pond. Doesn't that alone suggest either one or both of two things: A.) Humans are an alien colony brought here from a distant galaxy 500 Million years ago? or B.) That God or any other Supreme Omnipotent being created the entire universe and decided to create the human DNA strand along with other DNA samples for other aliens? Wouldn't it? I believe in both God and Science. How is this possible? You might ask. It is possible because I have no bias to either god or science. I have not fully read the bible. AND I have a very open mind about these things. I say, God and science work together EVERY day to create the world we know. That god stepped down on his place on high and created the universe a little differently than we know it in a spectacular show of lights and colors. He examined how it formed and shaped and decided to change it ever so slightly. He said "Let there be light." And suddenly our sun that was only a ball of gas, dust and ice, formed and ignited, casting light into that cloud. The clouds then formed into several different orbs in the sky, trapped in an elliptical path around the pull of this newly formed star. And as it was God stepped down onto the third planet and began to create life. He started with the lands and the oceans then created plant life and animal life. Birds in the skies, fish in the seas. He still wasn't done with it. He then created man in one more rotation of the planet he aptly named Earth. And who is to say that god didn't create several different versions of this "Man" to see how they would react to the environment they were in? Who is to say god wasn't curious and having some fun when he created this different versions? Who is to say that after several versions he finally created us? And we survived all this time and interpreted these different versions as our evolutionary progress? If you keep an open mind when exploring these theories you may find that they are actually quite possible. So I say God is real, and although this isn't proving it, it is my rationale as to why he is real, and why God and science are co-existing and working together.
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Post by Flags_Forever on Jan 18, 2011 18:29:01 GMT -5
But we know that the Earth and all it's life did not develop in only a week. Believing otherwise is, quite frankly, idiotic. No offense.
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Post by Captain Giggle Squash on Jan 18, 2011 19:41:59 GMT -5
It states specifically in the bible that human time is not God's time. As stated in 2 Peter 3:8 "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." So who is to say that it didn't happen in 7 "days" in God's time. You can't take the bible literally at times, you have to know when to read it symbolically. Where did the dinosaurs come from that were stomping around? There should be a lot of stuff you don't understand. Look Sean and trinton , there are a lot of things we cant explain. That's why it's called faith. It's what the catholic religion is based on. We don't need proof of anything because there CAN'T be proof of everything. I know there is a God. He helps me everyday even when i don't realize it, and i thank him. God loves you, and you will have to listen for him. If you listen hard enough he will call. Just look out for him.n God Bless. NMS-Mix your reasoning is extremely flawed. Explain how you know there is a god. Because you felt his presence? Because you believe? Sorry, try again. The fact is, god is one of those things that can't be proven. Furthermore, god is one of those things that doesn't need to exist. In fact, if religion was completely abolished, and everyone was an atheist, our society, our earth, would most-likely be far more advanced than it is today. Religion, by definition, is the stopping of progression. Religion says that we don't need to look for answers, that we don't need to look for truth, that we don't need to think. We have a book to think for us. And in reply to this. You can't prove god DOESN'T exist either. Give me one prime example of proof god doesn't exist. And it has to be something I can't support using a religious explanation as well as scientific.
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vichilux
Star
Hatsune Miku LALALALALA :D
Posts: 699
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Post by vichilux on Jan 18, 2011 21:50:27 GMT -5
So let's just say that if god exists (that I don't think so, but it'd be cool because I'm such a big Supernatural fan), he (or it) is a big selfish jerk. I mean, he (or it) could really just move a finger to make our lives better if he (or it) "loved us so much" (lol, catholics)... but I'm just saying... Well, my point is: god exists=good, I don't give a shirt / god doesn't exist=even better, I was right all the time...
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Nakor
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Non-Prophet
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Post by Nakor on Jan 18, 2011 23:58:00 GMT -5
First, survivingtheworld.net/Lesson859.htmlSecond, if you can successfully make an argument that the concept of God is undisprovable, and then further can make an argument that even if God truly did not exist, his existence would be undisprovable, then you have come up against a concept that is known as "unfalsifiability." Falsifiability (the opposite) is the state such that if an idea or hypothesis was incorrect, it would be possible to show that it was incorrect. For example, if gravity on earth did not have an acceleration of approximately 9.8m/s², it would be quite easy to take some measurements and demonstrate it -- it wouldn't even really require much science education, though you'd need something that could measure an object's falling speed. It should be noted for clarity that proving something is "falsifiable" (as I just did with the gravity example) does not prove it "false," which is a totally different concept. So why care about falsifiability? A concept isn't considered scientific if it isn't falsifiable, so it must be pretty important. Falsifiability implies testability. Similarly, unfalsifiability implies that it is not possible to test an idea. Ideas that are unfalsifiable tend to be useless, as one could come up with any number of them, including sets of several contradictory ones, and of course none of them could be formally shown to be false even though (in a contradictory set) all but one of them would have to be. Therefore, the claim that you can't disprove God not only is a very poor argument for God's existence, if it's paired with the ability to show you could not disprove God even if God did not exist, then it happens to also be a very good argument against God's existence.
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Jan 19, 2011 13:16:23 GMT -5
@captain Giggle Squash: (To the post with the Drake Equation). About the last long paragraph: I think science has a decent understanding of most the processes described there, so I don't think you need a god to interefere with that. If anyting, I'd say that if there was a god, he/she/it just started the universe and then let everything else to the universe. I also have some concerns about your creative, curious god that experiments with life and has fun with it, but since I don't know how you exactly define your god I can't really do much with that. About the Jumbo jet in a junkyard VS DNA that would evolve into humans thing: I know there is something wrong with that, but I cannot quite explan it 0.0 *Googles* I found some articles in support of that or that mentioned that, but the wording of the theory was different from this and different from each other, and the articles weren't that good either or reliable... still not trusting this thing. But I found some other interesting stuff: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoyle%27s_fallacy and www.ebonmusings.org/evolution/tornado.html But even so, 7000 years are still not enough, even 14000 would be not enough time. Also, if you read the creation in 7 days thing and take it literal, it doesn't make much sense really. That can work both ways too, how do you know that this or that part weren't supposed to be literal and therefore made nonsensical, thus decreasing the bible's credibility? You can't just say "oh you see, this was literal and that not" to accommodate to what you believe. *sigh*. It reminds me of this: pogotribe.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=debateclub&thread=5658 ... iIrc page 5 is where al the fuss about the interpretation of the bible starts. And as Nakor said, the fact that you cannot prove that God doesn't exist is proof of nothing. Stating otherwise and say something like "if you can't prove it doesn't exist, then it must be true" is a logical fallacy.
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Flappy
Star
Grrr! But not really....
Posts: 577
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Post by Flappy on Jan 19, 2011 15:17:47 GMT -5
It states specifically in the bible that human time is not God's time. As stated in 2 Peter 3:8 "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." So who is to say that it didn't happen in 7 "days" in God's time. You can't take the bible literally at times, you have to know when to read it symbolically. NMS-Mix your reasoning is extremely flawed. Explain how you know there is a god. Because you felt his presence? Because you believe? Sorry, try again. The fact is, god is one of those things that can't be proven. Furthermore, god is one of those things that doesn't need to exist. In fact, if religion was completely abolished, and everyone was an atheist, our society, our earth, would most-likely be far more advanced than it is today. Religion, by definition, is the stopping of progression. Religion says that we don't need to look for answers, that we don't need to look for truth, that we don't need to think. We have a book to think for us. And in reply to this. You can't prove god DOESN'T exist either. Give me one prime example of proof god doesn't exist. And it has to be something I can't support using a religious explanation as well as scientific. I have no reason to prove that god(s) doesn't exist. I never claimed that god didn't exist, nor do I claim that. My argument is that Christianity and other religions do not bring us any closer to knowing whether or not a god(s) exist, and that they are full of flaws and inaccuracy's. I do not believe in god(s). This doesn't mean I claim they don't exist, I simply choose not to believe. Your second paragraph is highly inaccurate. Many times in history religion have pushed civilizations forward. I did mean if it was abolished today. Not meaning if it never existed. Perhaps I should have made that clear. It was also just an idea. But take into consideration the number of people living on this planet who believe in a religion and reject science. If even a fraction of these people stopped believing and dedicated their lives to the progression of science, do you not think society would advance faster? (it's just an assumption. I don't have any statistics or anything to back up that it would, for sure, be the case, I'm just saying it probably would be.)
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Post by rndnproductions on Jan 19, 2011 18:39:10 GMT -5
im not here to disagree, i agree completely.
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Post by Captain Giggle Squash on Jan 19, 2011 20:42:55 GMT -5
Your second paragraph is highly inaccurate. Many times in history religion have pushed civilizations forward. Actually, Christianity brought us back about several hundred years. Which is what I don't like about my religion. If Christianity never became the Authority of the time period, we might be colonizing space by now.
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0netnet0
Meteor
The things I do for love...
Posts: 50
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Post by 0netnet0 on Jan 22, 2011 16:30:38 GMT -5
I don't believe he exists because there's no proof. But I also do not believe he does not exit because there is no disproof. Gimme proof - I'll believe, but for now, I don't think so.
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0netnet0
Meteor
The things I do for love...
Posts: 50
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Post by 0netnet0 on Mar 3, 2011 8:59:50 GMT -5
Let's say it like this. Give me proof. You claim God exists, it's on you to give me hard science to explain it.
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Post by Flags_Forever on Mar 3, 2011 12:38:28 GMT -5
Let's say it like this. Give me proof. You claim God exists, it's on you to give me hard science to explain it. Ya know, I like you more with every post you make, 0netnet0.
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Post by elanetto on Apr 15, 2011 16:44:10 GMT -5
I believe in The Big Bang Theory. (And yes, I like the TV series as well) The creation of all elements came from a super nova - the death of a great star. I love the thought of how the gold in a golden ring was forged in the middle of a dying star in the universe. The Wonders Of The World series from BBC explains this theory: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEw6X2BhIy8
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Post by Draemora on Apr 15, 2011 16:53:50 GMT -5
Dogma is arguable, but a God entity is unprovable and un-disprovable at the moment with our current knowledge. There is no point in arguing on the existence of such an entity, for it will get nowhere. Nevertheless, dogma and its connection to the potential existence of such an entity is very debatable.
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Flappy
Star
Grrr! But not really....
Posts: 577
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Post by Flappy on Apr 15, 2011 20:01:41 GMT -5
I don't think dogma holds any connections to the potential existence of a deity, hence my sig. If anything, I think it only keeps us further away from knowing whether or not a deity or deity's exist.
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Post by Draemora on Apr 15, 2011 22:42:28 GMT -5
That's my stance as well.
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Post by krzych32 on Apr 16, 2011 12:39:21 GMT -5
Your second paragraph is highly inaccurate. Many times in history religion have pushed civilizations forward. Actually, Christianity brought us back about several hundred years. Which is what I don't like about my religion. If Christianity never became the Authority of the time period, we might be colonizing space by now. Sorry for being so late but I just saw that and since someone is bringing this debate back..... Medieval times are for some reason highly misunderstood by the modern society. You are simply wrong by making the statement you made. The Catholic church was the only institution of learning in Europe at that time, there was no alternative, without the church the dark ages would be even darker. Without the church we would most likely loose the connection to the great Greek philosophers. Considering that they created the only class that could write and read at the time says something about them. You are doing something I really hate when people do. You are judging people of the past by your own, modern standards. This is just ignorant.
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