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Post by Joey on Dec 4, 2010 11:25:24 GMT -5
I think that we should re-do the tribal values. Why? Because we are a tribe of our own. Dan created the values without us growing, knowing what we do believe in. Instead of it being what the tribe believes and lives by, its what Dan thought we should. Its not his fault, its just now that he's gone, we need to make it ours. Dan isnt even our Tribe Leader, he's just a guy who took some suggestions and made values. Why should we be living by something that wasnt even made for us?
Discuss.
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Post by Breepop on Dec 4, 2010 12:30:58 GMT -5
I'd be all for this if the values were, like, bad... but they're not? We shouldn't change them to just to spite Dan.
I think they encompass what we want this community to be very well. They cover all the grounds.
The only one I've never really been 100% behind is "Think impossibly big." Sometimes it can be ridiculously stupid to think "impossibly" big. Sometimes it's a very, very good idea to think realistically. If we had an amazingly supply of resources to do lots of seemingly impossible things, this value would be more suiting. But it's just plain stupid to try and aim for literally impossible goals. At the same time, though, you can think of it in a different way. Lots of things seem impossible now, but when we incorporate the other values (such as Grow Out), one day, those thoughts won't be impossible.
You're supposed to think of the value, not literally, but as a way of saying, "Don't be afraid to think bigger than what seems possible right now."
So I don't necessarily want to remove that value. I like it, I just dislike how some people have interpreted it in the past.
Added: Wow, after typing up this post, I decided to check out Dan's video on this value, and he... basically said the exact same thing I did.
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Post by Joey on Dec 4, 2010 17:57:50 GMT -5
I'm not saying that they are bad at all. I think they can do fine. But I really believe that a tribe should chose its own values, deciding for itself. Hell, if they are the same as they were before, thats great. At least we chose them as a tribe.
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Post by Rob on Dec 4, 2010 18:29:35 GMT -5
We, um, DID choose them as a tribe. Dan (and several other people) just compiled the list of the ones most people said.
I could understand maybe revisiting them, but we definitely don't need to to scrap what we have and start over.
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Post by Joey on Dec 4, 2010 18:44:29 GMT -5
We, um, DID choose them as a tribe. Dan (and several other people) just compiled the list of the ones most people said. I could understand maybe revisiting them, but we definitely don't need to to scrap what we have and start over. But we chose them before we had really become a tribe, we didnt know who we were. Now that we do, we can decide on what our values are. And I didnt mean just scrap them, maybe let anyone offer ideas, then vote on them. The originals being offered as well. So revisiting sounds like the right word.
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Dec 4, 2010 21:22:21 GMT -5
I like them as they are. And we were a tribe, just that we hadn't realised, or at least didn't know the exact concept of "tribe". Maybe the thing is that tribes are not necessarily supposed to chose the values, maybe the tribe is just supposed to be and act freely and move as a tribe and the values would form by themselves. But Idk, I wouldn't change them unless someone gives a very very good explanation of what is wrong with any of the values or maybe why we should add one.
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Dec 4, 2010 21:46:42 GMT -5
Here are the traits I've observed in the tribe:
1) Inability to design completable projects (become overwhelmed with the seeming impossibility of big tasks) 2) Low participation rates in projects 3) Give up when the things get tough 4) Don't care about reducing worldsuck 5) Immature and naive (level 3 in tribe stage)
Of course, not everyone exhibits each and every trait or even most of these traits, but as a whole that is what I see in our tribe. So our values should try to counteract these traits as much as possible.
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Post by bombmaniac on Dec 4, 2010 22:09:11 GMT -5
oh fuck this tribal bullshit
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Post by Freddy on Dec 4, 2010 22:10:21 GMT -5
fuck your pessimism.
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Post by bombmaniac on Dec 4, 2010 22:13:21 GMT -5
oh im not being pessimistic, im just saying that the tribal aspect is bullshit
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Dec 4, 2010 22:25:14 GMT -5
this place itself is bullshit
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Post by Freddy on Dec 4, 2010 22:33:10 GMT -5
That isn't constructive criticism. You're just saying "this place is SHIRT" but you aren't contributing anything to solve it. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
You may as well go away if you dislike this place so much. :/
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Dec 5, 2010 2:04:05 GMT -5
You must have no idea how much I have voiced my (constructive) criticism. Only to be met with, "I hate hearing about this!!!" And "Meh, we'll do something about this when we have time."
Again, this place is bullshit.
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Post by Freddy on Dec 5, 2010 2:17:23 GMT -5
Then change your approach to it!
My point is that it's ok to say "This place sucks, but x, y and z should be done, and I'm in to help!", but not go around the forum simply posting "SPOTM sucks".
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Post by bombmaniac on Dec 5, 2010 2:28:04 GMT -5
meh ive tried too many times to turn things around...this place has no drive whatsoever, and those of you who do are a very rare exception.
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Post by kdphilosophy on Dec 5, 2010 2:30:31 GMT -5
I personally like the values. If any are lacking, lets discuss it, if none are unacceptable but it feels incomplete somehow why not add? for instance, one member has already posted a short list about some perceived shortcoming of the tribe, if we beleive these to be accurate, why not make values that emphasizes avoiding these pitfalls if they don't already exist, or create a means of which these values can be flushed out of our community. Everything takes time. I've found that as a group we haven't even come to the point we can really say "were great and you suck" only "I'm great and you suck" there is sometimes not an appreciation of others and their differences of opinion. We've missed the mark of even having the cohesion of a group. at least in a gang there's unity. Even if they look at the world through a tainted lens. I think this cohesion should be our top priority.
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Post by bombmaniac on Dec 5, 2010 2:36:10 GMT -5
i discussed this with a few people a couple of months ago. i dont think people want the values to be changed because they are flawed, they want the values changed because they want it to come from within. there is a significant difference between values that are dictated then accepted and values that are self generated by the people who will be accepting them.
again, there isnt anything particularly wrong with the current values, but i think they will hold more...well...value to the people of this forum if they chose it themselves.
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Post by kdphilosophy on Dec 5, 2010 2:39:49 GMT -5
i discussed this with a few people a couple of months ago. i dont think people want the values to be changed because they are flawed, they want the values changed because they want it to come from within. there is a significant difference between values that are dictated then accepted and values that are self generated by the people who will be accepting them. again, there isnt anything particularly wrong with the current values, but i think they will hold more...well...value to the people of this forum if they chose it themselves. I was never under the impression that DB ever say these values as the be all end all to hold us forever and all time against our will, but more as placeholders to inspire us, (and as said before these were generated greatly in part by the member base) and if the members wanted to add/subtract/reinterpret a value as a group I don't see that as negative in any way. So long as it's done as a group and for the betterment of the group.
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Post by bombmaniac on Dec 5, 2010 3:03:18 GMT -5
i disagree. coming up with values as a "tribe" mis a rather time consuming and arduous process. it's way easier to take what is given and go with it than to start from scratch. however if made from scratch, they are more effective, more electrifying, more binding. people are more serious about what they created than what they adopted.
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Post by Joey on Dec 5, 2010 11:52:22 GMT -5
i disagree. coming up with values as a "tribe" mis a rather time consuming and arduous process. it's way easier to take what is given and go with it than to start from scratch. however if made from scratch, they are more effective, more electrifying, more binding. people are more serious about what they created than what they adopted. Exactly.
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