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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Jun 22, 2011 22:12:27 GMT -5
@swim: He made a trollish comment and then you responded with a relatively big post, which can be seen as overreacting. Being that it was partly (if not completely) made in response to a troll comment, it can be seen as a little bit ludicrious, although I think there is nothing wrong with you giving some information.
Ad hominem would be because you resorted to insults, but since I don't think they were part of an argument or lead up to any conclusion, they don't count as ad hominem, just gratious insulting (unless they actually were part of an argument...). Then again, Ray may also know this.
Oh, btw, welcome communist! Although you are coming for what seems to be the last of life of SPOTM, I hope you have a good time here. I don't really have much of a political position (not that I know of, at least)... so... yeah.
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Post by SwimFellow on Jun 22, 2011 22:28:38 GMT -5
Oh SHIRT, he's a troll?? This clears up so much.. Anyway, I wasn't overreacting, in fact I had already written most of that post on my computer, so it was really just copy/paste. Also, Asher.. I'm still confused. You said that Democratic could've been dropped from Socialism.. But the fact of the matter is that Democratic Socialism, and Socialism are two... Different things. (PLEASE LOOK TEH UP)TOTALLY READ THAT WRONG. The economy of America is more Democratic-Socialist than simply Socialist.. As long as you add in a bit more capitalism. Yes. Democratic-Socialism IS a form of economy. Oh.. And gov't too. Oh, and even though you're sort of a troll, I've been starting to like you. I still don't like Zang. Go away Zang. xD
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Post by bombmaniac on Jun 23, 2011 7:27:24 GMT -5
no...the term democratic socialism is used to distinguish between authoritarian or totalitarian socialist states and democratic...socialist states. for example...israel today is basically democratic socialist (not entirely...but very close) whereas nazi germany was not democratic in the sense that it was hitlers way or the highway. the "democratic" in democratic socialism does NOT refer to the type of economy...as democracy is not a form of economy. well...i suppose its nice to know that you dont endorse dictatorships...
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Linus
Star
Life is complex; it has both real and imaginary components
Posts: 614
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Post by Linus on Jun 23, 2011 7:53:59 GMT -5
Definition of Socialism: "The State or the people as a whole owning the means of production and distribution of goods, for the sake of equality or 'egalitarianism'. Socialists believe that the system of capitalism allows a small portion of society to have most of the power and wealth in a nation, and therefore perpetuates the unfair class struggle of 'proletariat' vs 'bourgeoisie'. If you hear the phrase 'distribution of wealth', that has to deal with socialism" I like how you interpreted that as a description of how socialists think the wealth should be distributed in an economy, which is a gross misinterpretation. Being from a country which have been heavily influenced by social democratic views (essentially socialism), for example in economy, I can tell you that it is the essence of what they want to prevent, not enforce. The american economic system is in not influenced by socialism. lol. It is not equal and the distribution of wealth is concentrated to a small portion. It is purely capitalist.
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Post by bombmaniac on Jun 23, 2011 8:39:35 GMT -5
its more that the core economy is letf on its own...but necessities are provided by the government...think universal healthcare and heavy subsidies of other necessities like food and housing etc...i think what swim means is that the US does have some entitlements and social programs...
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Post by SwimFellow on Jun 23, 2011 11:34:06 GMT -5
Definition of Socialism: "The State or the people as a whole owning the means of production and distribution of goods, for the sake of equality or 'egalitarianism'. Socialists believe that the system of capitalism allows a small portion of society to have most of the power and wealth in a nation, and therefore perpetuates the unfair class struggle of 'proletariat' vs 'bourgeoisie'. If you hear the phrase 'distribution of wealth', that has to deal with socialism" I like how you interpreted that as a description of how socialists think the wealth should be distributed in an economy, which is a gross misinterpretation. Being from a country which have been heavily influenced by social democratic views (essentially socialism), for example in economy, I can tell you that it is the essence of what they want to prevent, not enforce. The american economic system is in not influenced by socialism. lol. It is not equal and the distribution of wealth is concentrated to a small portion. It is purely capitalist. @linus: "Democratic socialism is a description used by various socialist movements and organizations, to emphasize the democratic character of their political orientation. Democratic socialism is contrasted with political movements that resort to authoritarian (Stalinist Communism) means to achieve a transition to socialism , instead advocating for the immediate creation of decentralized economic democracy from the grassroots level, undertaken by and for the working class itself." - Democratic Socialism (Pretty close to the US economy) (Also, Linus, look at the next definition) "A political and economic theory of that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." - Socialism (Further away from the US economy) "A political theory advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs." - Communism (Pls See Animal Farm - George Orwell For A Disaster Scenario Regarding Communism | Surprisingly Accurate View.. | It's not quite a criticism of communism, but more of how corruption can ruin it) "An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit." - Capitalism (Not COMPLETELY US economy, but pretty close description.) Note that the US economic system has state/people-run programs as well as privately-owned business-run.. Stuff. But that's not my point, my point is that the US economy IS in fact influenced by Socialism :OOOOOO But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Remember that socialism's definition nowadays is "SHIRTSTORMS and every dies" because of the media. Media likes fear.. It gets ratings. Well, that was a ramble, huh? asher 1st Post I guess we misunderstood each other.. I was trying to say that it was meant to.. You know, separate authoritarian socialism and.. Well, you said it. I was just saying that the entire term evolved into meaning the economic type as well as the gov't type. Wasn't trying to say "democratic" meant anything economically.. Well, it does, but it's not a type of economy. Democratic socialism as a term sort of evolved into.. Yeah. But misunderstandings suck. Oh, and dictators do too. asher 2nd Post And, yeah, I did mean that..
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Linus
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Life is complex; it has both real and imaginary components
Posts: 614
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Post by Linus on Jun 23, 2011 14:25:13 GMT -5
its more that the core economy is letf on its own...but necessities are provided by the government...think universal healthcare and heavy subsidies of other necessities like food and housing etc...i think what swim means is that the US does have some entitlements and social programs... Well yeah... fair enough. Also, @swim: I love how you made that epic post and then ended it in a way that rendered the whole post unnecessary
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Post by SwimFellow on Jun 23, 2011 16:00:24 GMT -5
xD
BUT IT WAS A RAMBLE!
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