RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 3, 2010 22:12:08 GMT -5
Yeah, that goes back to the whole "everything happens for a reason" idea that many people (including me) believe. purcsh. You wouldn't say that if it was someone you loved he killed. All the attitudes that changed and all of the good things that resulted wouldn't have justified the loss of one human life. And besides things haven't changed, we've had a few genocides since. And what about Stalin? What good did his existence result in for the world? Russia is still suffering because of that, they didn't recover like Germany. I'm not saying I'd go back and kill baby Stalin (with his little mustache) because I too have that "ultimate fact" /moral idea / golden rule / closed mind that I couldnt possibly think of killing an innocent. I'm just saying that I don't feel that happened "for a reason." It just happened, because the world allowed it to happen or because he and his supporters wanted it to happen and a lot of people suffered unimaginable pain because of it. And there is still Putin and there are still Russian journalists being murdered so it's not free yet (I'm not saying those things are related, please don't kill me Putin, i think you're cute) why kill hitler anyways? I'd kill stalin. Stalin killed aprox 60 million people while hitler killed a measly (in comparison) 17 million in the holocaust. Stalin starved people to death, while hitler poured gasoline on them and burned them. I'd rather have a quick and bloody death than a long dreary and bloodless death. 17 million? Surely 11 million? 6 million jews and 5 million gypsies, homosexuals, political prisoners, mentally ill, mentally handicapped etc. (I hate that all the other groups get bunched in together, but at least I'm counting them, usually you hear "6 million people died in the holocaust, as if the others weren't people too.)
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 3, 2010 22:17:26 GMT -5
Yeah, that goes back to the whole "everything happens for a reason" idea that many people (including me) believe. purcsh. You wouldn't say that if it was someone you loved he killed. Sure I would. I'd certainly be very depressed and angry if he killed someone I loved, but I wouldn't seek revenge. And the reason I wouldn't kill someone has much more to do with the fact that I find it morally wrong, and I couldn't possibly bring myself to do it in the first place, than it has to do with the fact that I think everything happens for a reason.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 3, 2010 22:20:12 GMT -5
purcsh. You wouldn't say that if it was someone you loved he killed. Sure I would. I'd certainly be very depressed and angry if he killed someone I loved, but I wouldn't seek revenge. . If someone belonging to you was killed you'd say "Well, it happened for a reason." and get some solace from that? If that's true then we're very different people! That's what I said, I mustn't have expressed myself properly.
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Cortney
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[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
The Bown
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Post by Cortney on Apr 3, 2010 22:21:20 GMT -5
I firmly DISAGREE with the idea that everything happens for a reason. That implies that there is some sort of planner or plan for life, and I don't believe that at all.
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 3, 2010 22:22:43 GMT -5
Sure I would. I'd certainly be very depressed and angry if he killed someone I loved, but I wouldn't seek revenge. . If someone belonging to you was killed you'd say "Well, it happened for a reason." and get some solace from that? If that's true then we're very different people! That's what I said, I mustn't have expressed myself properly. No, no, you did express yourself properly, I was agreeing with what you said. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. x| I would probably pray to God about it, confident that there was some reason for it happening. There's nothing wrong with being different people.
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Post by Andy Glover on Apr 3, 2010 22:38:07 GMT -5
I do think everything happens for a reason. I think the present reality that we live in is the combined product of our past, the past of everything and everyone around us, and the grand orchestration of a story much larger than any individual person, tribe, or nation. This is not to say that I like when terrible things happen, or you shouldn't be upset if something terrible happens to you. Worldsuck does exist. And bad things happen to good people. But I do believe that everything, even bad things, have the potential to "backfire" into something good. Some of these things seem senseless and terrible, like genocide. But I really do believe that it's the universe, or a higher intelligence, orchestrating something that is too broad for us to understand.
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 4, 2010 6:44:24 GMT -5
Wow, that's very well stated. That completely describes it exactly as I believe it. I guess I have a difficult time putting things into words other people can understand. ;D
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 4, 2010 7:26:18 GMT -5
I guess it can be something to say when something bad happens - to make yourself feel better. But I hate the "Well my friend had cancer and is fine, your friend had cancer and is dead. Everything happens for a reason, chin up." it suggests to me the idea that one person has more of a right to be here than another. And that if say the people in Haiti died for a reason, that we are alive for a reason, that we were somehow chosen in some way to have the right to life but not them.
Andy I think what you said could be true, but I wouldn't call it "Everything happens for a reason." I'd call it "Everything happens because of something (else)." There's a huge difference.
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 4, 2010 7:31:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed that about Andy's description as well. He did seem to be explaining (perhaps without knowing it) that everything happens because of something else. But if you just flip around his explanation, such that one thing happened because of what it will eventually lead to, then that is "everything happens for a reason," and I do believe that.
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Post by Sean on Apr 4, 2010 10:12:59 GMT -5
No, I couldn't kill him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 11:31:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed that about Andy's description as well. He did seem to be explaining (perhaps without knowing it) that everything happens because of something else. But if you just flip around his explanation, such that one thing happened because of what it will eventually lead to, then that is "everything happens for a reason," and I do believe that. that's not true... You're saying the basic law of action reaction implies that everything happens for a reason.. The action reaction law doesn't say that action (in it's literal meaning) is always required to achieve reaction..
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 4, 2010 13:42:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed that about Andy's description as well. He did seem to be explaining (perhaps without knowing it) that everything happens because of something else. But if you just flip around his explanation, such that one thing happened because of what it will eventually lead to, then that is "everything happens for a reason," and I do believe that. You can believe that, but the two things are completely different. "Everything happens for a reason" suggests some intent, or at the very least some purpose. It says to me "You are sad because you are meant to be said and I am happy because I am meant to be happy." "Everything happens because of something" is what he spoke about up until the very last unrelated sentence which began with "but". "Because of something" just says that everything reacts to everything else. It doesn't suggest anything like the other. Perhaps there is an ultimate end, but it doesn't have to be positive or negative or anything, it's just what happens in the end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 13:48:08 GMT -5
anyway, if I have to give my opinion, I would have to say that I believe this:
By pure coincidence certain situations arise which lead animals (yes, we too are animals) to react to certain events in a certain way. None of this is planned by a higher being. If you combine that with the (limited) free will of the human species, an endless amount of different outcomes for a certain problem are possible, which makes this world as interesting as it is.
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Post by Andy Glover on Apr 4, 2010 14:04:57 GMT -5
To calarify, I do believe there is a higher intelligence that does have a greater purpose, or reason for everything. Anything that is left up to chance will always tip in the favor of this higher purpose. You can call it God, the Universe, Higher Intelligence, or whatever you want to. I don't have proof for this. It's just what I put my faith in. It gives my life meaning, even in the most meaningless of circumstances. It's my motivation to stick by my values, which I think is what we're all about, here on the south pole of the moon!
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 4, 2010 16:03:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed that about Andy's description as well. He did seem to be explaining (perhaps without knowing it) that everything happens because of something else. But if you just flip around his explanation, such that one thing happened because of what it will eventually lead to, then that is "everything happens for a reason," and I do believe that. that's not true... It's my opinion. How can it be "not true," if it is my opinion? (by the way, don't bother arguing with that, because nothing you say is going to change my mind anyway so you might as well save your breath ) And by the way rabbitwho, the first half of Andy's post did seem to explain the "everything happens because of something," but then the second half certainly did reveal very plainly that he believed "everything happens for a reason."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 17:46:57 GMT -5
It's my opinion. How can it be "not true," if it is my opinion? (by the way, don't bother arguing with that, because nothing you say is going to change my mind anyway so you might as well save your breath ) you're correct, that was a really bad reply from me. I apologise. But, I stand by what I said, your logic is flawed when you say that the fact that things happen because of other events we should assume that things happen for a reason..
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Post by Joeknowsjello on Apr 5, 2010 5:58:38 GMT -5
I think to help many people with what constitutes using awesome for good or bad would be to think about it like this. "Would your mother approve of that?" Now of course, if you want to be ignorant and say yeah on things a civilized mother would say no to, this would not be using your awesomeness for good in the first place. So try to stay awesome for good using that frame of mind. Of course it isn't as easy as that, but again if you are in a tough spot, think of the decision which would be the most awesome and be the best possible good option you can carry out.
Hope my insight/advice helps a bit.
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 5, 2010 8:38:07 GMT -5
I think to help many people with what constitutes using awesome for good or bad would be to think about it like this. "Would your mother approve of that?" Now of course, if you want to be ignorant and say yeah on things a civilized mother would say no to, this would not be using your awesomeness for good in the first place. So try to stay awesome for good using that frame of mind. Of course it isn't as easy as that, but again if you are in a tough spot, think of the decision which would be the most awesome and be the best possible good option you can carry out. Hope my insight/advice helps a bit. Well it certainly got the thread back to its original topic. That is a good way of looking at it, for now at least, but I do think that eventually we need to be able to determine for ourselves if something we can put effort into would be beneficial for the world, rather than having to think "Would my mother be okay with this?" or something like that. It's completely fine, and it wasn't a bad reply just because of that. And I am comfortable accepting that that is what you believe, and it is different from what I believe. (:
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