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Post by Lex on Apr 7, 2010 17:24:11 GMT -5
This topic is about Infant Genital Mutilation, or as it's more commonly known as: Circumcision.
I notice that people get all riled up when females (babies, children and adults) are subjected to genital cutting in foreign countries, however it's a completely normal procedure to cut part of a baby boy's penis off.
It's an old tradition and it needs to be gotten rid of. It's part of the whole Jewish and Muslim society, yet male children who aren't Jewish or Muslim receive circumcision on a day-to-day basis.
If we back up and take a look at this, does it really make sense? Why the hell would we cut off part of a male's most sensitive body part? What's worse is that because they're still infants, there is no use of anaesthetics - so they're awake and experiencing the removal of part of their body, pain and all.
But OF COURSE it's okay, because nobody remembers their infancy, right? (that's sarcasm by the way). If one pulls that argument, then we might as well allow other routine forms of torture to newborns.
I seriously believe that all parents who have their sons circumcised are to be considered child abusers. Seriously, it's a form of mostly irreversible body modification that has no use. There is no proof that it prevents against AIDS (as most pro-circumcision groups say).
Even if it DID help prevent AIDS, that would be like saying that cutting off a kid's left arm at birth would have prevented him from punching someone to death later in life. Then, later, it happens that he does beat someone to death with his remaining arm. You can still get AIDS if you're circumcised and you can still transfer it.
And in the religious field, I think that parents should be sensible enough to not perform some procedure upon the kids who may not end up supporting the religion in the end. I know it's some ridiculous time honoured tradition, but would you remove a kid's limbs at birth because YOUR religion said that you had to?
Then there's the whole "well, it looks better" or "it's more aesthetically pleasing". It's a total lie and completely subjective. Personally, I think it looks awful - like some botched surgery. Anyways, who would logically remove the foreskin from their child for the reason that "it looks better". You might as well pierce and stretch their earlobes as well! If they want body modification done, they can get it done themselves when they're older. Why the hell would YOU do it for them?
I remember that several months ago, I had to explain the whole process of circumcision to one of my friends because he didn't understand exactly what it was. Nearing end of the discussion, he was sickened and wanted me to stop explaining.
This is probably one of the issues that makes me the angriest. Like, I'm completely enraged and I think that everyone should be. I've even refrained from posting about it so far because I know that once I get going about the topic, I get even more frustrated with it all - which usually puts me in a pissy mood for the rest of the day. I'm absolutely appalled by every parent out there who decides to circumcise their children. Personally, because of that choice, I don't think that they deserve to be parents. Clearly, they'd be too stupid to realize how utterly ridiculous the whole procedure is. I can cut the religious people some slack, but the non-religious folk (and even the Christians) circumcising their children is utterly disgusting. They don't deserve to even have children.
Discuss.
- I'd prefer to stay off the religious end of this discussion here. -
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Post by Jake on Apr 7, 2010 17:37:21 GMT -5
...This is a topic I've definitely never thought of! I'll come post in a bit once I've thought about it and what I believe!
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Post by Joey on Apr 7, 2010 17:42:50 GMT -5
Whoa, dang man you have some opinions on this! I have never really thought about this so like jake I will wait abit.
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Post by helenwk on Apr 7, 2010 18:00:26 GMT -5
I happen to agree with you. If I had a baby boy, I wouldn't circumcise him for the same reasons you said. However, I think it's a little harsh to say that people who have circumcised their children don't deserve to have kids. My boyfriend was circumcised, and when I asked his parents why they did it they said that it was because the doctor had recommended the procedure because it's more cleanly and would help keep him from getting infections. It was their doctor, they trusted his professional opinion, and of course they wanted to do what they thought was best for their kid. I'm sure that a lot of people who circumcised their kid did it for the same reason. I just think the battle here isn't solely against parents, but doctors who don't tell it exactly as it is. Also I think it's important to talk about to raise awareness, so that people take the time to research it before they make their decision.
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Post by Jake on Apr 7, 2010 18:08:51 GMT -5
Okay, I've come to some decisions. I agree with you on the pain part - if circumcision is carried out, it should be with anesthetic. However, I wouldn't go as far to say what is done is "Infant Genital Mutilation", because taking the example you used of "stretching the earlobes" - that's modification, yes, but not mutilation.
Before I continue further I'd be interested if you could tell me what it specifically is you hate so much about it. You made some good points on why it's not a good thing, but not anything on why it's a bad thing.
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Post by Lex on Apr 7, 2010 18:13:23 GMT -5
Okay, I've come to some decisions. I agree with you on the pain part - if circumcision is carried out, it should be with anesthetic. However, I wouldn't go as far to say what is done is "Infant Genital Mutilation", because taking the example you used of "stretching the earlobes" - that's modification, yes, but not mutilation. Before I continue further I'd be interested if you could tell me what it specifically is you hate so much about it. You made some good points on why it's not a good thing, but not anything on why it's a bad thing. The foreskin has the purpose of keeping the glans of the penis moist and sensitive. Removal of the foreskin is a purposelessness desensitization of the most sensitive part of the male body. Circumcised males will eventually find the sensitivity of their privates to decrease as they age (as the foreskin is no longer there to keep the glans moist, the glans is exposed to every other weathering that the rest of the body is exposed to). And you don't think it's mutilation? Look at this (it is graphic, so I do warn you): www.doulapattiramos.com/2009/11/circumcision-warning-very-graphic.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2010 18:18:47 GMT -5
I used to have a Muslim friend in elementary school and he explained to me why he thought it was a good thing he was circumcised He said that it would indeed prevent infections. I've never heard the aids thing before, but that's ridiculous. However, I think it's fairly possible that it would prevent regular infections, as there's no skin that dirt can get stuck under and it's easier to wash. He also told me that his circumcision was done with the aid of anesthetics, so I don't know where you got your information, but it's certainly not like that everywhere.
I agree that there's no reason whatsoever for non-Islamic or non-Judaic people to make such a decision for their child, but I don't think it makes them less good parents. At least not when their reason to do so is hygiene, the "it looks better" argument would just make them idiots.
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Post by Lex on Apr 7, 2010 18:23:36 GMT -5
I used to have a Muslim friend in elementary school and he explained to me why he thought it was a good thing he was circumcised He said that it would indeed prevent infections. I've never heard the aids thing before, but that's ridiculous. However, I think it's fairly possible that it would prevent regular infections, as there's no skin that dirt can get stuck under and it's easier to wash. He also told me that his circumcision was done with the aid of anesthetics, so I don't know where you got your information, but it's certainly not like that everywhere. With newborns (when it is most commonly performed), anesthetic cannot be used for health reasons with the newborn. It's not safe to use them on the child, therefore it isn't used. Later on, when the children are older, anesthetics can be used. Hygiene isn't even an argument either. How about we cut off people's ears at birth because it's difficult for children to wash behind them? It's ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2010 18:25:18 GMT -5
Strange :/ If I remember correctly he said he wasn't conscious while it was done, and he was an infant.
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Post by Lex on Apr 7, 2010 18:26:31 GMT -5
Strange :/ If I remember correctly he said he wasn't conscious while it was done, and he was an infant. Most people don't remember infancy, perhaps that's what he was referring to.
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Post by Trey on Apr 7, 2010 18:33:18 GMT -5
Hmm, desensitization? That explains a lot xD
Sorry, bad joke!
I believe the tradition must die, but it is a little extreme to say that the parents shouldn't deserve to be parents because of it. I mean, my parents did it with me, and they're the best parents I could ask for! So, it's kind of a kick in the pants if you ask me..
Anyway, nice link! This is the closure that I've needed since I was told what circumcision was in the first place, so thank you. It's kind of disturbing to know that THIS was done to my own body! I don't think I've EVER encountered a wound this severe in my entire life! The worst part is, the scars are visible.
Okay, I'm done talking about my own penis, lol
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Post by Lex on Apr 7, 2010 18:34:54 GMT -5
Hmm, desensitization? That explains a lot xD Sorry, bad joke! I believe the tradition must die, but it is a little extreme to say that the parents shouldn't deserve to be parents because of it. I mean, my parents did it with me, and they're the best parents I could ask for! So, it's kind of a kick in the pants if you ask me.. Anyway, nice link! This is the closure that I've needed since I was told what circumcision was in the first place, so thank you. It's kind of disturbing to know that THIS was done to my own body! I don't think I've EVER encountered a wound this severe in my entire life! The worst part is, the scars are visible. Okay, I'm done talking about my own penis, lol LMFAO. I was about to say some stuff like that, but realized it was way too personal. Thanks for getting that out of the way.
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Post by metallica210 on Apr 7, 2010 18:35:11 GMT -5
i am not circumcised.
i WILL get circumcesed as an adult.
i have a condition, where i cannot pull the foreskin back. it is annoying, and as soon as i turn eighteen, i am going to get rid of that annoyance
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Post by Lex on Apr 7, 2010 18:39:26 GMT -5
i am not circumcised. i WILL get circumcesed as an adult. i have a condition, where i cannot pull the foreskin back. it is annoying, and as soon as i turn eighteen, i am going to get rid of that annoyance I agree with this. Now, I think this is probably the only reason it should ever be performed on an infant. If there's a medical condition like this present, then I think it's acceptable.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Apr 7, 2010 18:42:00 GMT -5
I'm circumcised and I kinda wish I wasn't just for the fact that I want to know what it feels like to be uncut. Circumcision was used first for religious reasons. Then in the 50's and 60's society would tell parents to cut their kids so they wouldn't be able to masturbate (as well). There has been very few studies that have proven that circumcision has health benefits such as: people that are circumcised are prone to catch less STDs - however, recent studies have shown that circumcision only helps out by less than 1% while wearing a condom helps by almost 90% if used correctly.
Personally, I wish my parents had cut me. It should be not the choice of the parents as to whether or not they want to physically alter the appearance of their child. Parents need to realize that this is another person and they are not entitled to full body rights. It doesn't matter even religiously. What if your child doesn't want to follow YOUR religion? They will still be scarred for life.
Technically there is a way to restore the foreskin, but it's not the same. What doctors do is stretch out the remaining foreskin. It doesn't feel the same and it doesn't act the same. Also, it costs a pretty good amount for the surgery.
If I were to ever have a boy, or adopt a boy, I would not circumcise him. I would wait until he was 15,16 or 17 and let him choose what he wants to do with his body. If he wants to have himself cut, there's no problem with that.
Personally though I prefer guys that I am dating to be cut. I have been with a few uncut guys and it makes having fun a little more difficult. It's just different. Also, cut penises are more pleasing to the eye for me, but that's just because I've grown around cut ones.
EDIT:.....I wonder if Dugtrio is cut.
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Post by Trey on Apr 7, 2010 18:51:47 GMT -5
EDIT:.....I wonder if Dugtrio is cut. Lmao, nice one zakatak xD
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T3CHN0B4BBL3
Moon
Self-proclaimed zombie, trying to a find cure
Posts: 162
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Post by T3CHN0B4BBL3 on Apr 7, 2010 19:10:52 GMT -5
Then there's the whole "well, it looks better" or "it's more aesthetically pleasing". It's a total lie and completely subjective. Personally, I think it looks awful - like some botched surgery. Anyways, who would logically remove the foreskin from their child for the reason that "it looks better". You might as well pierce and stretch their earlobes as well! If they want body modification done, they can get it done themselves when they're older. Why the hell would YOU do it for them? Well crap, I'm circumcised and have gauges. Looks like I'm screwed xP In all seriousness, I agree when you say that it should be done with anesthetics. Other than that I don't really have an opinion on it. *Edit: I posted this before I read that you couldn't use anesthetics on the infants, I just posted to make the joke xP*
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Post by metallica210 on Apr 7, 2010 20:27:57 GMT -5
i am not circumcised. i WILL get circumcesed as an adult. i have a condition, where i cannot pull the foreskin back. it is annoying, and as soon as i turn eighteen, i am going to get rid of that annoyance I agree with this. Now, I think this is probably the only reason it should ever be performed on an infant. If there's a medical condition like this present, then I think it's acceptable. well... this is pretty cool. i looked it up, and there are steroids and creams that can help with it. looks like i wont need it after all! as a note, it is called phimosis
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Post by Trey on Apr 7, 2010 20:45:08 GMT -5
I agree with this. Now, I think this is probably the only reason it should ever be performed on an infant. If there's a medical condition like this present, then I think it's acceptable. well... this is pretty cool. i looked it up, and there are steroids and creams that can help with it. looks like i wont need it after all! as a note, it is called phimosis This is an extremely unfortunate condition you have! Do you ever worry about infection?
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Post by click3tyclick on Apr 7, 2010 21:05:51 GMT -5
Please warn people of the detailed explanations of penis slashing. I did not like what I read.
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