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Post by metallica210 on Apr 7, 2010 21:12:05 GMT -5
This is an extremely unfortunate condition you have! Do you ever worry about infection? eh.. not really. i have never had any infections "down there", so i never really thinkk about it.
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Post by rialvestro on Apr 8, 2010 1:16:36 GMT -5
I tend to agree with the OP and despite my better judgement have done research so I actully have a little bit of a better understanding.
Supposidly it's done for health reasons and this is real reason it's lasted so long. However it seems that only recently it is becomming less of a common medical practice as new researched has shown that there really aren't as many medical befits as what was originally believed.
As for the question of why it's wrong for women, well, the female version of it has been known to damage their sensitivity and the only reason for a female circumcision is to turn them into baby factories. To put it bluntly, women who have this done can't feel any pleasure from sex anymore and it becomes purely about the guy and reproduction. None of this however is true for the male version.
The part that really does make me sick about all this is that it is forced on an infant however some parents actully wait till the child is old enough to make the choice on their own. The first time I had heard about this one of my friends told me he was going to the hospital to have it done and when I asked what that ment he did the same exsplaining the OP did and I had the same reaction the OP's friend did however my friend willing choose to do it and we were about 6-8th grade at the time so he knew fully well what he was in for which I do think is better than having it forced on you before you're old enough to understand what it is.
After this time I did not research to find out if I had been or not because I think I would have to look at another dude to find out if mine is and that's just gay so I honestly have no idea if I am or not. If I'm not I really don't want to be and if I am then I'm going to be pissed so it's really better I don't know. I could ask my ex-girlfriend though if I really wanted to find out, she might know.
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Post by RandiKthxxx on Apr 8, 2010 8:22:24 GMT -5
In female circumcision, don't they reach inside you and rip parts out? Yikes.
I guess I'm an idiot though, the "it looks better" and "hygiene" argument works for me.
I'd probably be weirded out if I went to have relations with a guy and he had a freakin' Snuggie on his penis.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Apr 8, 2010 9:57:24 GMT -5
I hope it's not the zebra print one.
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Post by Trey on Apr 8, 2010 10:27:16 GMT -5
In female circumcision, don't they reach inside you and rip parts out? Yikes. It's called a hysterectomy A female circumcision has to do with removing the clitoris and labia minora, and sealing up the labia majora, leaving a small opening for urine and menstrual fluid. It essentially prevents women from having sex. It's pretty sick. This is all done with the most primitive of tools. Razor blades, knifes, and alcohol to prevent infection. We should be just as aware of female genital mutilation as male genital mutilation.
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Post by dibwys on Apr 8, 2010 11:59:18 GMT -5
Agreed. I mean, fair enough if a legal consenting adult wants to get it done (for religious reasons and whatnot), but in the traditional religious way they don't even anaesthetise the baby. It's a BABY, for goodness sake. No one should be going anywhere near it with a knife, and yet this is a legal thing to do. The world is a scary place sometimes
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imtwenty
Meteor
Can I put anything here and it will go underneath my name everywhere?
Posts: 73
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Post by imtwenty on Apr 8, 2010 12:27:18 GMT -5
Does anyone know the reason for circumcision? I know it is in the bible and it is covenant between god and man. But- Its not like one day, some guy s said "I HAVE AN AWESOME IDEA! WHERE ARE THE SCISSORS?'
There had to be a 'good' reason, right?!?!?
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Post by Trey on Apr 8, 2010 14:00:38 GMT -5
Does anyone know the reason for circumcision? I know it is in the bible and it is covenant between god and man. But- Its not like one day, some guy s said "I HAVE AN AWESOME IDEA! WHERE ARE THE SCISSORS?' There had to be a 'good' reason, right?!?!? Let's not question its origins. We know that it is a very sick thing to do with a child, and there is no moral explanation for it. Even for the religious; Do it because God says so? There are some pacific cultures that used to be cannibals because their God told them to do it. Well, they no longer do it as part of their rituals, even though they are still faithful to their religion. If we MUST circumcise our children, does that mean we must provide the "Lord" with burnt offerings as well? Shall we take our children to the city limits and murder them when they do not honor us? Shall we temporarily kick someone out of the neighborhood if they waste so much as a drop of semen? Shall we stone to death the people who commit blasphemy against "God"? It's all in the Old Testament! Besides, Christians have no excuse because Jesus supposedly saved them from having to perform these rituals.
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Post by RandiKthxxx on Apr 8, 2010 14:21:22 GMT -5
Agreed. I mean, fair enough if a legal consenting adult wants to get it done (for religious reasons and whatnot), but in the traditional religious way they don't even anaesthetise the baby. It's a BABY, for goodness sake. No one should be going anywhere near it with a knife, and yet this is a legal thing to do. The world is a scary place sometimes I think most circumcisions are done with machines now, but same diff.
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Post by Lex on Apr 8, 2010 15:45:15 GMT -5
Agreed. I mean, fair enough if a legal consenting adult wants to get it done (for religious reasons and whatnot), but in the traditional religious way they don't even anaesthetise the baby. It's a BABY, for goodness sake. No one should be going anywhere near it with a knife, and yet this is a legal thing to do. The world is a scary place sometimes I think most circumcisions are done with machines now, but same diff. There's different methods they've used. I don't think its a machine. They've used scissors (to snip it off), clamps (to squeeze the skin until it falls off), lasers (to burn it off), etc. There was a guy in Winnipeg named Bruce "David" Reimer who underwent circumcision as an infant (because of phimosis) that involved electrical currents to cauterize it. It didn't go well and they destroyed his genitalia. He had to be raised as a girl, which caused a whole load of problems. He committed suicide in 2004.
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Post by RandiKthxxx on Apr 8, 2010 15:46:45 GMT -5
I saw something like that on Law and Order once.
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Post by rialvestro on Apr 8, 2010 16:30:20 GMT -5
There was a story on TV a few years ago where a circumcision went horribly wrong and apperently the doctor thought it'd be a good idea to BURN the foreskin off. Well the poor kid ended up with a sex change right after birth.
I still wander what thoughs parents are going to do when that kid reaches puberty because they can't replicate the hormones and stuff so even though the kid looks like a girl at a young age when he reaches puberty he won't be able to develop like a girl.
This isn't a kid who was born with both genders, this was just a kid who was actully completly male and had his penis burned off. They couldn't reattach it because of the burning so what was left of his genitals were removed and he ended up being raised as a girl.
Come to think of it, that kid is probly a teenager by now and has either just discovered that he's really a boy or is just starting to. I could just image how that conversation would go "Mommy, how come all the other girls in my class have their period and are wearing bras but I'm not?" "Well honey, the doctor burt your penis off, you're really a boy."
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Post by ninjaearl on Apr 8, 2010 16:36:40 GMT -5
First, obvious troll is obvious. Second, it reduces the risk for AIDs and is recommended by doctors for doing so. It reduces the risk for infection in general by reducing the infection-susceptible areas the foreskin creates. Third, it is proven to increase the length, and I don't remember any of the pain and I'm glad I had it done.
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Post by Lex on Apr 8, 2010 16:46:32 GMT -5
First, obvious troll is obvious. Second, it reduces the risk for AIDs and is recommended by doctors for doing so. It reduces the risk for infection in general by reducing the infection-susceptible areas the foreskin creates. Third, it is proven to increase the length, and I don't remember any of the pain and I'm glad I had it done. Not at all. And nobody's trolling. I'm serious. All these are common myths regarding circumcision. Doctors actually advise against it. The only time anyone has "proven" anything regarding reducing the infection of AIDS was that in Africa, circumcised men WITH condoms had a lower chance of getting AIDS than uncircumcised men WITHOUT condoms. It was about the condoms. Also see here: ( www.dearcupid.org/question/does-circumcision-affect-penis-size.html) If anyone's trolling, it has to be you. There was a story on TV a few years ago where a circumcision went horribly wrong and apperently the doctor thought it'd be a good idea to BURN the foreskin off. Well the poor kid ended up with a sex change right after birth. I still wander what thoughs parents are going to do when that kid reaches puberty because they can't replicate the hormones and stuff so even though the kid looks like a girl at a young age when he reaches puberty he won't be able to develop like a girl. This isn't a kid who was born with both genders, this was just a kid who was actully completly male and had his penis burned off. They couldn't reattach it because of the burning so what was left of his genitals were removed and he ended up being raised as a girl. Come to think of it, that kid is probly a teenager by now and has either just discovered that he's really a boy or is just starting to. I could just image how that conversation would go "Mommy, how come all the other girls in my class have their period and are wearing bras but I'm not?" "Well honey, the doctor burt your penis off, you're really a boy." I just posted information regarding that individual. David Reimer committed suicide in May of 2004.
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Post by rialvestro on Apr 8, 2010 17:11:13 GMT -5
There was a story on TV a few years ago where a circumcision went horribly wrong and apperently the doctor thought it'd be a good idea to BURN the foreskin off. Well the poor kid ended up with a sex change right after birth. I still wander what thoughs parents are going to do when that kid reaches puberty because they can't replicate the hormones and stuff so even though the kid looks like a girl at a young age when he reaches puberty he won't be able to develop like a girl. This isn't a kid who was born with both genders, this was just a kid who was actully completly male and had his penis burned off. They couldn't reattach it because of the burning so what was left of his genitals were removed and he ended up being raised as a girl. Come to think of it, that kid is probly a teenager by now and has either just discovered that he's really a boy or is just starting to. I could just image how that conversation would go "Mommy, how come all the other girls in my class have their period and are wearing bras but I'm not?" "Well honey, the doctor burt your penis off, you're really a boy." I just posted information regarding that individual. David Reimer committed suicide in May of 2004. Oh, I was not aware of this. I'm so sorry, I feel like a jerk now.
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Post by ninjaearl on Apr 8, 2010 17:24:17 GMT -5
Sorry, when I said "trolling" I just meant that this is a really widespread flame topic. I'm happy I was circumcised, however, and I know that I will see to it that my children are. It is actually recommended though (see: www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm) and it does actually account for a large reduction in the risk of AIDs. That study is U.S.-based and is actually widespread. The article dates 2008 and was conducted by a government agency.
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Post by Lex on Apr 8, 2010 17:31:40 GMT -5
Sorry, when I said "trolling" I just meant that this is a really widespread flame topic. I'm happy I was circumcised, however, and I know that I will see to it that my children are. It is actually recommended though (see: www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm) and it does actually account for a large reduction in the risk of AIDs. That study is U.S.-based and is actually widespread. The article dates 2008 and was conducted by a government agency. I'd actually advise against circumcising your children. Remember that because you might like it, doesn't mean that your children will appreciate it the same way. Think of it almost like forcing your religion on the children, except its nearly irreversible. Let them decide to get circumcised or not, it is, after all a body modification like ear piercing or tattooing. It's a choice they should make about their own bodies, especially because it can't ever be reversed. I know there are really expensive foreskin restoration methods, but they won't get rid of the scarring or return the lost nerve endings. It won't return the lost sensitivity of the genitalia either. Also, I've heard of those studies and I know they are biased and entirely dependent on the country, culture and general behaviour of people in the area. For example, in Africa, catching AIDS is like rolling the dice. It spreads quickly and unforgivingly. Any correlation could possibly be either based entirely on the culture and general behaviour of people in the area, or a complete coincidence. The Canadian government does not advise circumcising children, and so I know that the American government is often behind on certain things that Canada changes (i.e. America is much more conservative than Canada and the conservatives in America who promote certain ideas will scrounge for facts to continue supporting them. The study you posted would be an example of that). "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain. Let the kids decide on what they want done to their bodies. If someone wants to be circumcised, it should be their choice, not the parents'. You wouldn't tattoo a kid at birth if a study showed it prevented gonorrhea, would you? For example, I'm enraged that my parents circumcised me. I would have rather not have been and I would pay a high sum of money to reverse the process if it were possible. It makes me feel violated, like I was abused. Just because you think it has health benefits and because you like it doesn't mean other people will appreciate it like you do.
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Post by ninjaearl on Apr 8, 2010 17:51:19 GMT -5
Later circumcision increases the risk for complications, and also defeats a lot of the purpose of it as far as enlargement goes. Neonatal circumcision has a <0.5% chance of complication when performed by a trained physician. Honestly though, if my kid can't respect 18 years of love, time, and provisions enough for it to outweigh something like being upset over circumcision, I would feel like I failed both myself and my child anyway.
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Post by Lex on Apr 8, 2010 18:01:37 GMT -5
Later circumcision increases the risk for complications, and also defeats a lot of the purpose of it as far as enlargement goes. Neonatal circumcision has a <0.5% chance of complication when performed by a trained physician. Honestly though, if my kid can't respect 18 years of love, time, and provisions enough for it to outweigh something like being upset over circumcision, I would feel like I failed both myself and my child anyway. From what I've managed to find on the internet, there's only rumoured to be a slight size difference. Other than that, there's no concrete evidence. And even then, why would you care? Again, it's their body, why would you care about their penis size? If they want body modifications like penis enlargement, then they'll get it themselves. Why would you do it for them if they clearly might not appreciate it. And you have the right to feel like a failure. I would definitely feel like a failure for letting someone mutilate my child's most sensitive body part. As I said, not everyone appreciates it. Go ahead and circumcise your kids, but if they corner you because in the locker room, they noticed that they look different than all their friends, don't say I didn't warn you. Forgive me, because as I said, I feel violated, humiliated and abused based on the mutilation performed on me. I feel sickened and it makes me nauseous that anyone would do it to their child. It's proof that not everyone appreciates it. I'm TERRIBLY sorry if I'm showing concern because I don't want anyone else to experience the feelings I've had. See Here: ( www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/)
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Post by rialvestro on Apr 8, 2010 18:17:39 GMT -5
As far as health is concerned a circumsised penis can get infected even more than an uncircumsised penis if it's not taken care of properly. Meaning that right after birth it then becomes the parent's responsibility to keep the penis clean while it's healing from the surgery and this can be very difficult to do when the kid is still in diapers. So the entire process seems self defeating anyway.
At least if you wait till the kid is old enough to choose on their own they can also take care of cleaning on their own as they should be potty trained by that time.
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