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Post by ladystardust on Jun 3, 2010 2:02:33 GMT -5
rcnrcn927 says: "My government shouldn't force me to make that donation."
Nick Greyden says: "I am being forced into buying a service I don't want."
It's called taxes kids. That's what they do. You pay for social assistance, prisons, and all sorts of other services you may never need.
Heavens forfend we all share a portion of our countrymen's financial needs. Oops! Was my "socialist" Canuck showing again?
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Post by krzych32 on Jun 3, 2010 10:28:52 GMT -5
ladystardust, no, that's not the same as taxes. Its forcing people to buy a service, and I can't believe more people aren't outraged by that, it goes agains free market.
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earth
Moon
the awesome
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Post by earth on Jun 3, 2010 11:30:35 GMT -5
universal healthcare yes. it works more awesomely. gives more people the right to health care.
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Post by KipEnyan on Jun 3, 2010 16:49:16 GMT -5
ladystardust, no, that's not the same as taxes. Its forcing people to buy a service, and I can't believe more people aren't outraged by that, it goes agains free market. I'd hardly consider health care a "service" in the traditional sense. It's a basic human right. And no, it's not too different from taxes. Your employer either has to provide you, with free or low-cost health care, or he foots the bill. And that'll be easier due to government subsidies. Subsidies that get their money from, say it with me, taxes. |
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Post by Lex on Jun 3, 2010 16:55:10 GMT -5
It's basically patched in with our taxes here. It's no different. The government isn't making you do anything other than taxing everyone a bit more while relieving them of hospital bills.
What is so hard to understand? "BLAAHHH! SOCIALISM! ITS EVIL."
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Post by krzych32 on Jun 3, 2010 19:21:29 GMT -5
I still have to disagree. Everyone should have a right to choose where their money goes, if you don't want to pay the VAT tax, don't buy the product, if you don't want to pay the property tax, don't but that house. With the health care on the other hand, there is no choisce, its like they are going to tax me just for being alive.
or in other words:"BLAAHHH! SOCIALISM! ITS EVIL."
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Post by Joey on Jun 3, 2010 20:03:21 GMT -5
So, isn't taking care of one another something that we should all be doing. A little more taxes wont hurt us, and it will help others.
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Post by KipEnyan on Jun 3, 2010 20:03:27 GMT -5
You don't get choices whether or not to pay taxes. If you don't want to pay taxes, enjoy your anarchy elsewhere please, because that's how a government sustains.
The idea of not paying property taxes is absurd. If you don't like taxes, you won't own property?
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Post by Lex on Jun 3, 2010 20:44:17 GMT -5
I still have to disagree. Everyone should have a right to choose where their money goes, if you don't want to pay the VAT tax, don't buy the product, if you don't want to pay the property tax, don't but that house. With the health care on the other hand, there is no choisce, its like they are going to tax me just for being alive. or in other words:"BLAAHHH! SOCIALISM! ITS EVIL." You're basically taxed for being alive regardless, unless you plan to steal food to live. And not wanting to help other people who might not be able to afford health care? I'm sorry, but that's evil. That's disgusting. |
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Jun 3, 2010 21:20:08 GMT -5
What is your opinion on the issue. I think the US should reform its healthcare system because one of the biggest problems in this country is that the majority of Americans can't afford to go to the hospital. People are afraid to get hurt because if they do, it would bankrupt them. There is a reason why every European nation has adopted Universal Healthcare and that's because it works. Europe is leading right now in highest healthcare satisfaction, lets learn from their example. Everyone has the right to affordable healthcare but our government has sold itself out to the corporate big-wigs. Vote 'yes' on Universal Healthcare. I do believe universal health care should exist for trauma care (i.e., broken bones, stab wounds, etc.) But in the case of diseases this health care debate is such a distraction from what really needs to happen. The whole health "care" system is broken. From my point of view it would be more fittingly named "sick care". The paradigm is focused on getting a person with a disease back to a state of being disease free. Most people loosely call this being "healthy." But when you're truly healthy you don't suffer from most diseases frequently and chronic diseases are unheard of. IMO we shouldn't focus on reforming a broken system but rather we should revolutionize the system. We need to change the focus to prevention. Our body's are designed to stay healthy, all we need to do is provide it with the necessary nutrition and voila! problem solved. No more cancer, heart disease, strokes, diabetes, or obesity. And you're immunity to infectious diseases increases. It's that simple. Anyways... that's not gonna happen for like another generation... =( |
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Post by KipEnyan on Jun 3, 2010 21:49:48 GMT -5
What is your opinion on the issue. I think the US should reform its healthcare system because one of the biggest problems in this country is that the majority of Americans can't afford to go to the hospital. People are afraid to get hurt because if they do, it would bankrupt them. There is a reason why every European nation has adopted Universal Healthcare and that's because it works. Europe is leading right now in highest healthcare satisfaction, lets learn from their example. Everyone has the right to affordable healthcare but our government has sold itself out to the corporate big-wigs. Vote 'yes' on Universal Healthcare. I do believe universal health care should exist for trauma care (i.e., broken bones, stab wounds, etc.) But in the case of diseases this health care debate is such a distraction from what really needs to happen. The whole health "care" system is broken. From my point of view it would be more fittingly named "sick care". The paradigm is focused on getting a person with a disease back to a state of being disease free. Most people loosely call this being "healthy." But when you're truly healthy you don't suffer from most diseases frequently and chronic diseases are unheard of. IMO we shouldn't focus on reforming a broken system but rather we should revolutionize the system. We need to change the focus to prevention. Our body's are designed to stay healthy, all we need to do is provide it with the necessary nutrition and voila! problem solved. No more cancer, heart disease, strokes, diabetes, or obesity. And you're immunity to infectious diseases increases. It's that simple. Anyways... that's not gonna happen for like another generation... =( This is an optimistic, yet fundamentally ignorant point of view. A person at the pinnacle of personal health and fitness could still succumb to literally any of the above ailments. Your suggestion that the human body is self-equipped to deal with all these with "necessary nutrition" is ignorant at best and offensive at worst. |
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Post by The Monster on Jun 3, 2010 22:10:02 GMT -5
I do believe universal health care should exist for trauma care (i.e., broken bones, stab wounds, etc.) But in the case of diseases this health care debate is such a distraction from what really needs to happen. The whole health "care" system is broken. From my point of view it would be more fittingly named "sick care". The paradigm is focused on getting a person with a disease back to a state of being disease free. Most people loosely call this being "healthy." But when you're truly healthy you don't suffer from most diseases frequently and chronic diseases are unheard of. IMO we shouldn't focus on reforming a broken system but rather we should revolutionize the system. We need to change the focus to prevention. Our body's are designed to stay healthy, all we need to do is provide it with the necessary nutrition and voila! problem solved. No more cancer, heart disease, strokes, diabetes, or obesity. And you're immunity to infectious diseases increases. It's that simple. Anyways... that's not gonna happen for like another generation... =( This is an optimistic, yet fundamentally ignorant point of view. A person at the pinnacle of personal health and fitness could still succumb to literally any of the above ailments. Your suggestion that the human body is self-equipped to deal with all these with "necessary nutrition" is ignorant at best and offensive at worst. He's right, cause when it comes down to it, it's people genetics which influence their vulnerability to various ailments. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 22:49:39 GMT -5
We have free healthcare in the UK, I mean you have to pay for your medicine but you can usually get your money back or at least half of it! - I'm a student, and I don't have to pay for any medicine! Everything is free - the dentists too!  You Americans just look stupid getting all mad and saying NO bla bla, - just watched the Daily show...Hilarious! Fox news say 70% dont want it? You will be able to go to the doctors and get fixed up and you'll be all better and it won't cost you. And you don't want it? It's only because those who oppose it and dont want it are getting money from these cooperations that rip you Amerians off, they dont want it because they wont profit from it! Here in the UK we have the National Health Service and Private Healthcare, you can have both worlds.. It's not hard I like that this is coming from an actual UK resident. A lot of my friends are very "No-Bama" and HATE HATE HATE the free health care system. When they make arguments against it, they actually go and say that people in the UK DON'T LIKE THEIR SYSTEM, which is preposterous, because I have many European friends, and they all say that they love the system, just like you. Thanks to our private health care, I can't even afford to go to something as simple as the dentist. That's how bad it is. The trip itself would cost too much, not to mention that our health insurance company would raise the cost of our insurance. |
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Jun 3, 2010 23:38:40 GMT -5
This is an optimistic, yet fundamentally ignorant point of view. A person at the pinnacle of personal health and fitness could still succumb to literally any of the above ailments. Your suggestion that the human body is self-equipped to deal with all these with "necessary nutrition" is ignorant at best and offensive at worst. He's right, cause when it comes down to it, it's people genetics which influence their vulnerability to various ailments. Um no, actually my claim is scientifically proven. Removed villages all over the world lived without these chronic diseases until they had access to sugar and western foods. The Inuit, the Masai, the Tokelauans, the Maori have all been studied and are a few of the peoples that are/were living proof. There are also other isolated villages that have been studied as well, like the natives of the UK, Switzerland, Peru and Africa. Read Weston A. Price's book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration if you want that proof. And no, genetics is a poor excuse. If you're parents both have type 2 diabetes and die of cancer or heart disease you aren't more likely to get type 2 diabetes and die of heart disease or cancer because of genetics, but rather because your parents' poor eating habits will rub off on you and you'll simply succumb to the same diseases of excess sugar consumption. |
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Post by krzych32 on Jun 3, 2010 23:51:51 GMT -5
I still have to disagree. Everyone should have a right to choose where their money goes, if you don't want to pay the VAT tax, don't buy the product, if you don't want to pay the property tax, don't but that house. With the health care on the other hand, there is no choisce, its like they are going to tax me just for being alive. or in other words:"BLAAHHH! SOCIALISM! ITS EVIL." You're basically taxed for being alive regardless, unless you plan to steal food to live. And not wanting to help other people who might not be able to afford health care? I'm sorry, but that's evil. That's disgusting. ok...when you buy food, you get food, and you have a choice where and what to buy, I don't see how its the same. I'm also not saying that I don't want to help other people, but being forced into it, that's another story. |
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Jun 4, 2010 0:44:09 GMT -5
He's right, cause when it comes down to it, it's people genetics which influence their vulnerability to various ailments. Um no, actually my claim is scientifically proven. Removed villages all over the world lived without these chronic diseases until they had access to sugar and western foods. The Inuit, the Masai, the Tokelauans, the Maori have all been studied and are a few of the peoples that are/were living proof. There are also other isolated villages that have been studied as well, like the natives of the UK, Switzerland, Peru and Africa. Read Weston A. Price's book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration if you want that proof. And no, genetics is a poor excuse. If you're parents both have type 2 diabetes and die of cancer or heart disease you aren't more likely to get type 2 diabetes and die of heart disease or cancer because of genetics, but rather because your parents' poor eating habits will rub off on you and you'll simply succumb to the same diseases of excess sugar consumption. (Page 6.) The Maasai have some of the worst life expectancies in the world. (It is possible they die before cancer becomes an issue!) Cancer rates for Māori men are 55.6% higher than non-Māori and 83.5% higher for Māori women than non-MāoriDidn't find any Tokelauan studies that didn't refer numbers to NZ as a whole. Cancer can be somewhat affected by diet, but for the most part everyone is vulnerable no matter how healthy you try to be. |
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Post by ladystardust on Jun 4, 2010 9:51:23 GMT -5
krzych32Do you not pay taxes on anything? Are taxes not deducted from your pay? These things have never been a choice for you - it is mandated by the government. Following your logic, I imagine you oppose all taxes, since they are not "your choice"?
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Post by krzych32 on Jun 4, 2010 11:21:53 GMT -5
ladystardust, let me put this in a different way. In free market society the way you spend your money is a powerful tool, that lets your voice be heard. By buying one product and not the other you are making a statement that you support THAT company and that they are doing. Taxes are a different story, they are an action to a certain reacotion. You do something you, get taxed. But here, its just like being taxed for living. Fallowing you logic, you support every form of taxation?
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earth
Moon
the awesome
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Post by earth on Jun 4, 2010 11:48:54 GMT -5
krzych32, in parts of europe, yes mostly everyone gets taxed more, but people there accept that and are great and everything just works better, and the poorer are helped and everything. but in the us what theyre doing (i think) is taxing very well off people, meaning not everyone is taxed and those who are can probably afford it and theyre cutting expense on medicare i think too, and its not "to live" necessarily, but it helps people who just cant pay for medical plans or expensive medicines and things be able to do all these, its helping the ones in need. so are you against that?
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Post by krzych32 on Jun 4, 2010 12:47:54 GMT -5
earth, I'm European, so I know how it looks in Europe. I wouldn't mind if the taxes went up just to cover the health care. What I am agains is govermant forcing us to buy health care. The system that we are creating is nothing like the one in European nations.
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