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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 5, 2010 10:06:07 GMT -5
Do you think that men and women are treated right in your country? What are some double standards that are prominant?
I'll wait to see everyone's responses before I add my bit.
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Post by americanarchon on Mar 5, 2010 17:12:13 GMT -5
I think "official" gender equality is pretty good in America. There are exceptions of course; women are barred from some lines of military service (they're usually not allowed on front-line fighting, and the gov't is just saying now they should serve on submarines). And women are regularly paid less than men--not outrageously, but generally a few percentage points lower
Culturally, a lot of women become famous through sexually promiscuous (hope I spelled that right) lifestyle, eg Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, etc. And they do gain followings. Men, of course, go along with this and the cultural emphasis to be a "playa" is usually present.
But lots of women can get involved in real, worthwhile activities. For example, almost every academic and extra-ciricular activity and club at my school is predominantly female, including National Honors Society, Drama Club, Student Government, Gospel Choir, Model UN, and Writers Club.
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Post by Dimstow on Mar 5, 2010 21:47:43 GMT -5
For the most part I've got to say that we've done a fairly good job here in the U.S. of equality for the sexes, i don't know many people who are truly sexist and in most academic and professional circles woman are treated, for the most part, fairly.
I mean, less than 2 years ago a woman had a serious shot at President, that says a lot.
don't get me wrong, there are a lot of exceptions, women still aren't considered equals in a lot of athletic circles, and there is still some job discrimination (in most places woman aren't allowed to be 'stock men' due to expectations about their physical strength)
But I can confidently say that from what I've viewed, most women are treated as equals, if not superiors =P
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Post by chelseeyuh on Mar 5, 2010 22:15:26 GMT -5
I don't think that we're totally equal.. We all know that women are usually discriminated against when it comes to jobs and wages. And there are still many cultural expectations of what a woman should act like, and we often reenforce these ideas without even realizing it.
But overall, I don't really care about these insignificant gender inequalities.. I've been reading a book about women in developing countries.. now THAT is messed up.. I'd much rather work on fixing things there than trying to further my position in my society..
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Post by Dimstow on Mar 5, 2010 22:32:36 GMT -5
I don't think that we're totally equal.. We all know that women are usually discriminated against when it comes to jobs and wages. And there are still many cultural expectations of what a woman should act like, and we often reenforce these ideas without even realizing it. But overall, I don't really care about these insignificant gender inequalities.. I've been reading a book about women in developing countries.. now THAT is messed up.. I'd much rather work on fixing things there than trying to further my position in my society.. I whole heatedly agree! I think it's an issue that's consistently overlooked in developing countries, it's not just poverty or disease causing the suffering (not to take away from the severity of those problems) but the people in these countries are making a lot of discriminatory mistakes that our own countries have made in our pasts and more often than not they are much much worse. As for the U.S. and they're cultural expectations of women I actually agree with that (I know it kind of contradicts what I was saying before but hey, a guy can learn, eh?) I think that in terms of LEGAL correctness and equality we have made astounding progress but socially a lot of people have the same expectations of women they did 2 generations ago. But many of us have made a lot of progress towards excepting women as absolute equals and we are DEFINITELY moving in the right direction |
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Post by swan on Mar 5, 2010 22:45:26 GMT -5
I don't think that we're totally equal.. We all know that women are usually discriminated against when it comes to jobs and wages. And there are still many cultural expectations of what a woman should act like, and we often reenforce these ideas without even realizing it. But overall, I don't really care about these insignificant gender inequalities.. I've been reading a book about women in developing countries.. now THAT is messed up.. I'd much rather work on fixing things there than trying to further my position in my society.. I agree completely and I think a lot of the gender inequality stems from gender roles that were established and reinforced a long time age (ie. women belong in the kitchen, men belong in the workplace). And I think a lot of the negative aspects of the female gender role will continue to fade with time, since roughly 3 in 4 university students are women, and in my experience many of them are proud. I don't think that gender related double standards will ever completely disappear, but I think it can get to a point where the only differences are irrelevant. The treatment of women in developing countries is much tougher to solve however. |
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Post by smilee on Mar 5, 2010 22:49:41 GMT -5
I remember a month ago when the school had a dance, my friend wasn't allowed to ask a guy out because her parents thought it was inapporpriate for the girl to ask the guy out. I talked to my own mom about this and she said that she agreed because girls that ask out guys look desperate, easy, and only interested in sex. At school I brought this up. Only 3 peole supported me.
So legall, I think America has come pretty far, but socially we still some changes to make.
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Post by noobsensei on Mar 6, 2010 1:09:48 GMT -5
I don't think that we're totally equal.. We all know that women are usually discriminated against when it comes to jobs and wages. I disagree. It's not that women are discriminated against in jobs/wages, it's just that in general women expect different things out of their careers than men do. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but in general, men are more likely to value a job with a high salary and high status. Women are more likely to value a job that offers them flexibility in their work schedule and a pleasant work atmosphere. So the fact that men are paid more on average isn't because women are discriminated against IMO. Salary is just one of many factors to consider when pursuing a career...and men typically value it more than women do. |
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Post by Dimstow on Mar 6, 2010 15:52:38 GMT -5
I disagree. It's not that women are discriminated against in jobs/wages, it's just that in general women expect different things out of their careers than men do. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but in general, men are more likely to value a job with a high salary and high status. Women are more likely to value a job that offers them flexibility in their work schedule and a pleasant work atmosphere. So the fact that men are paid more on average isn't because women are discriminated against IMO. Salary is just one of many factors to consider when pursuing a career...and men typically value it more than women do. For the most part I've got to agree here, I think a lot of women do value different things in jobs, but i don't think money is one of them, from personal experience women want and seek out higher paying jobs just as much as men do, and just as men many men seek for a job to me flexible and understanding. I think it's less of a gender to gender difference as opposed to a personality to personality difference. But, the more I think about it the more I realize there IS a glass ceiling. Why? your ability to move upward in a company is almost entirely based on your superiors, and the higher up in a company your seated the more your allowed to let your personal opinions weigh into your companies decisions. E.G. If the C.E.O. of a company doesn't like Mexicans he can afford to overlook the Mexican applying for a position equal to his own, because HE is invaluable to the company but a floor manager couldn't afford to overlook ANYONE if they're performing well because he-too is looking to position himself higher in the company. And because those social opinions are allowed to influence decisions for high placing members of most any large company then the social inequality towards women creeps into the legality of female equality and we get a bunch of men deciding they'd be better off not having women making them look bad. |
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Post by nickgreyden on Mar 6, 2010 19:36:02 GMT -5
For the most part, the US has done a pretty good job with women in the roles previous held only by men. There are a few that are still lacking, but not many.
One gender based role that the legal system and social system has grossly overlooked in many places across the US is one that I'm intimately familiar with is that of the single father.
Think about how often do you hear stories of "dead-beat dads", now think about how often you hear stories of "dead-beat moms". Where I live, if I man misses five months of child support, he is hunted down and arrested after his 5th missed payment. For women, it takes over a year to do likewise. Where I'm at, if parents decide they can't work things out, for the father to have a chance at custody of the children he MUST prove the mother unfit.... and this is only for a chance.
A mother can win a custody battle with no information provided about how she will support the child financially. She does not have to provide information about support systems that she has such as churches, friends, and relatives nearby that can "help in the development of the child(ren)" She does not have to have people come to her defense to speak about her mothering skills. She does not have to provide custody paperwork to sign them up for daycare or school. But a man must for all of the above.
Socially, every time I go out with my children on the weekend and they are misbehaving in a public place, I ALWAYS (and I rarely use this term) find the woman or women with a snide smile on their face thinking that I'm just a weekend dad dealing with what their poor mother must experience on a daily basis. If the statement comes up that their mother doesn't live with me, I immediately get the statement "So child support comes directly out of your check?"
This is one aspect that not only hits close to home but invades my home, and one that sets my blood on fire. I was fortunate enough to have a judge in my case that was sensitive to this as well and quite lenient on the requirements even though I had an overabundance of the require paperwork and witnesses for me.
However, even though this is one thing that pisses me off in this country, things are much much much worse in many places around the globe. I'd have to say if I had a choice to fix this, or the gross misconception of women around the world, I'd have to go with the latter.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 10, 2010 14:48:27 GMT -5
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jaw
Moon
Oh yeah!
Posts: 154
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Post by jaw on Mar 12, 2010 16:48:42 GMT -5
Example of one would be.
Guy has sex with 10 girls in a month- This guy is a fucking G!
Girl has sex with 3 different people in a year- She's such a SLUT!
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Post by chelseeyuh on Mar 12, 2010 20:14:43 GMT -5
This has a lot of information that's also in this book I'm reading called "Half The Sky" [The title even comes from the proverb mentioned in the article]. You asked about gender inequality in our country. If you want facts about other countries, here are some quotes from the book.... “Thirty-nine thousand baby girls die annually in China because parents don’t give them the same medical care and attention that boys receive—and that is just in the first year of life.” “In India, bride-burning—to punish a woman for an inadequate dowry or to eliminate her so a man can remarry—takes place approximately once every two hours.” “It appears that more girls have been killed in the last fifty years, precisely because they were girls, than men were killed in all the battles of the twentieth century. More girls are killed in this routine “gendercide” in any one decade than people were slaughtered in all the genocides of the twentieth century.” And the quote that sums it up perfectly: “In the wealthy countries of the West, discrimination is usually a matter of unequal pay or underfunded sports teams or unwanted touching from a boss. In contrast, in much of the world, discrimination is lethal.” |
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 16, 2010 20:07:10 GMT -5
You asked about gender inequality in our country. If you want facts about other countries, here are some quotes from the book.... Do you think that men and women are treated right in your country? What are some double standards that are prominant? Hmmmm |
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Post by Johncoyne on Mar 20, 2010 13:48:42 GMT -5
The US is doing well as far as jobs are concerned. But socially, I think not. For example, if a guy dances, he's a queer. If a guy does theater, he's a fruitcake. If a guy designs clothing, he's gay. Let's take a look at the other side. If a woman does sports, it's cool. She's a tomboy. If a girl plays Call of Duty, guys like her more. Within the realm of Middle School and pressure, the Double Standard is ever present. And just to clarifiy, I used the words gay, queer, and fruitcake for the purpose of an example.
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pnla
Meteorite
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Post by pnla on Mar 20, 2010 16:52:42 GMT -5
The US is doing well as far as jobs are concerned. But socially, I think not. For example, if a guy dances, he's a queer. If a guy does theater, he's a fruitcake. If a guy designs clothing, he's gay. Let's take a look at the other side. If a woman does sports, it's cool. She's a tomboy. If a girl plays Call of Duty, guys like her more. Within the realm of Middle School and pressure, the Double Standard is ever present. And just to clarifiy, I used the words gay, queer, and fruitcake for the purpose of an example. But a lot of those examples are strictly from a guys point of view, like if a guy dances or does theater then other guys will probably think he's queer or a fruitcake or whatever, but a lot of girls would like it and hope that it doesn't mean he's gay. Cause quite frankly straight guys that are into stuff like that are just hard to come by, if they weren't then no one would make that assumption. But really most girls wish they could find a guy that knows how to dance. |
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Post by UnfairBear on Mar 21, 2010 8:36:37 GMT -5
I think because of growing gender equality in the western world, it's become sort of alright for women to be sexist towards men, but unacceptable for men to be sexist towards women. Nick's example being case in point. In a dispute involving sexism people are much more likely to listen to a woman, so long as her accusations arent totally ridiculous. As a result I think people are sort of afraid to be sexist to women, even though they may only have done something tiny and insignificant. On the other hand women can be sexist towards men and not get in trouble for it, as if it's their prerogative.
As for severe sexism in other countries, well, it's obviously unspeakably horrible, but what does everyone think we should do about it? Should we try to directly help them, or should we let their society develop out of sexism like ours did? I think alot of our disgust is because our society is more developed than other countries' in many ways. We would have been just as bad a few hundred years ago, but now that we've developed morals concerning sexism and other issues we feel that everyone else should follow those morals too. I'm not saying it's bad to have morals, or to want to change the awful things that happen in the world, but how far can we go without affecting other people's cultures too much? (That's not a rhetorical question, what do you think we could do?)
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Post by Johncoyne on Mar 21, 2010 10:34:01 GMT -5
But a lot of those examples are strictly from a guys point of view, like if a guy dances or does theater then other guys will probably think he's queer or a fruitcake or whatever, but a lot of girls would like it and hope that it doesn't mean he's gay. Cause quite frankly straight guys that are into stuff like that are just hard to come by, if they weren't then no one would make that assumption. But really most girls wish they could find a guy that knows how to dance. I have to disagree. The other day in during the morning denouncements at school, the assistant principal was talking about a guy who danced in the St. Patrick's Day Parade and was going to dance in Scotland. Almost everyone (including the girls) thought he was gay without even meeting him. |
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pnla
Meteorite
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Post by pnla on Mar 21, 2010 14:53:59 GMT -5
But a lot of those examples are strictly from a guys point of view, like if a guy dances or does theater then other guys will probably think he's queer or a fruitcake or whatever, but a lot of girls would like it and hope that it doesn't mean he's gay. Cause quite frankly straight guys that are into stuff like that are just hard to come by, if they weren't then no one would make that assumption. But really most girls wish they could find a guy that knows how to dance. I have to disagree. The other day in during the morning denouncements at school, the assistant principal was talking about a guy who danced in the St. Patrick's Day Parade and was going to dance in Scotland. Almost everyone (including the girls) thought he was gay without even meeting him. I mean hey, if it's like just ballet, I can understand, cause like I said it's just not something you come by too often. But also, lets remember that it wasn't always socially acceptable for girls to play sports either, twenty years ago a girl into sports would be labeled a dike in a second. But as more and more girls admitted to like sports and started to play regardless, the stereotype started to disappear. Same thing will happen with guys eventually, the problem seems to be that most guys are just too protective of their own masculinity to allow that transformation to happen. For example a lot of guys I know don't dance, at all. Why? #1 reason: guys don't dance. That goes for anything, a lot of guys worry about whether or not they will look gay or their homophobic friends will think they are gay or girls will think they are gay, they are just too worried about being perceived as gay, that they're preventing the stereotype from ever going away. I mean if no straight guy ever dances, than we are never going to think that a guy that dances is straight. |
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Post by andromeda on Mar 21, 2010 15:32:36 GMT -5
I somewhere else on the Pogoboards that women are the 51% minority. Weird eh?
To add a little humor here, how do you feel toilet seat responsibility should be dolled out? Should men always put the seat down when they're finished or should women suck it up and lower the seat themselves?
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