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Post by Bokchoy67 on Nov 13, 2010 16:45:02 GMT -5
I don't think trolls go through the trouble of NaNoWriMoing every post. Exactly. Now my opinion on this is that the media dose indeed paint a picture of what you should look like. Basically if im attracted to someone it has to be sexual? No way Obviously, we select people that are attractive to us. But we also base our selection on intelligence,personallity and other stuff.
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 13, 2010 17:54:57 GMT -5
You people aren't making any sense.
First off liking certain foods has nothing to do with attraction. That has more to do with taste than anything else. Smell and sight play a part in it too which could also play into attraction but taste is completely different from attraction.
And Alex, how is anything I've said homophobic? I've never said that there was anything wrong with being gay you always seem to assume that on your own so if anyone has a problem it's you. I really don't care if you're gay or not but clearly you have a problem with being gay and you're just using me to vent for some reason.
Also, I'm not a troll. If anything you guys are the trolls. The hand full of you seem to keep following all my posts only to either end up derailing my topics or find a way to insult me which I tend to ignore most of them unless it looks to be intentional. And by the way Alex was right about one thing, I do suffer from paranoia and you guys following me around like this doesn't really help matters any.
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Post by Lex on Nov 13, 2010 17:58:42 GMT -5
Attraction: www.thefreedictionary.com/attractionYou're only looking at sexual attraction, but sexual attraction =/= physical attraction. Sexual attraction =/= interpersonal attraction. Sexual attraction =/= grammatical attraction. Sexual attraction =/= tourist attraction The point is, you're not thinking broad enough. -- And about homophobia: nearly everywhere you post, you seem to bring up the issue of homosexuality. You never hesitate to express that you're straight, and that you're not gay. It would seem as if you're afraid of being thought of as gay. So here, for example, you peg every other person who is able to identify attractiveness in the same gender as being gay. That's a sign of homophobia, and it's rather paranoid.
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Nov 13, 2010 21:03:39 GMT -5
I want to say some things for further clarification: one doesn't even need to be physically, nor sexually attracted to another guy to understand why that other guy might be attractive to others. That can also be said for man-women attraction. Not all guys like the same kind of woman, but one can still understand why certain kind of women attract certain kinds of guy even if oneself doesn't think of that kind of woman as attractive. In other words, even if Rialvesto is right on his claim of "attraction = always sexual" (which I don't think it's true) that doesn't mean anything really, as one doesn't have to be attracted to another person to understand why or if that person is attractive.
And btw, media HAS told us how attractive men look, it just so happens that media also likes the "average man/average family guy/averga etc" joke, and that's why you also see a lot of average/not attractive men on TV and media (and there is no single stereotype of any gender, there are a lot of stereotypes for men and women, and not all of them imply being attractive).
I think that your notion of us following around is helped by your paranoia =/, so unless you can understand that this is not true, you will end up on a vicious circle of paranoia.
The reason it might seem like that it's because you do quite a good amount of threads and posts with some sort of controversial and debatable content, and so, we respond (as we would to any other post, or at least in my case. It is nothing against the poster, but the post itself). If I have ever insulted you, I apologize. Attack people is not my purpose when discussing, my purpose is to, well, dicuss.
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Post by Lex on Nov 13, 2010 21:11:04 GMT -5
Rialvestro, if you suffer from paranoia, then you must also understand that it will cause you to make assumptions about things that simply aren't true.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 14, 2010 1:07:39 GMT -5
oh man, don't take it the wrong way but the way I see it you are one of the greatest trolls ever or you really need help. Who the fuck would follow you on a damn forum?!
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 14, 2010 5:02:03 GMT -5
And about homophobia: nearly everywhere you post, you seem to bring up the issue of homosexuality. You never hesitate to express that you're straight, and that you're not gay. It would seem as if you're afraid of being thought of as gay. So here, for example, you peg every other person who is able to identify attractiveness in the same gender as being gay. That's a sign of homophobia, and it's rather paranoid. You never hesitate to express that you're gay, and that you're not straight. By you're logic it would seem as if you're afraid of being thought of as straight. And by the way, in this case I didn't actually say that you have to be gay to see the same sex as attractive. I said that the media tells us what is considered attractive for women and not men and that's why women are able to see what is attractive in other women without being lesbians where men can't do that without being gay. Seriously though, I work in theater for a living. If I actually cared weather or not people I don't know think of me as gay do you really think I would choose to be in the profession of a gay stereotype? I say I'm straight in topics like this not because I'm afraid of people thinking of me as gay but for the same reason in religious topics I always say that I'm Atheist. Do you think I'm afraid of religion too? It's just important to a debate to make it clear what your own view points are so people don't get confused. If I started talking about the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness in a religious debate people might thing I was one of them. I have studied their beliefs when I was little because my mom is Jehovah's Witness and I was kinda pressured into it by her and the bible lady who came over to our house every week. But I never believed a single word I read. Simply knowing the religion and actually believing any of it are obviously two different things but if I don't state the fact that I'm Atheist how is anyone to know that I do not actually believe in the existence of Jehovah. (Jehovah is God's name, some other religions don't actually give God a name, instead God is his name but in Jehovah's Witness saying his name is God is like saying our names are all Human.)
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 14, 2010 5:09:04 GMT -5
oh man, don't take it the wrong way but the way I see it you are one of the greatest trolls ever or you really need help. Who the fuck would follow you on a damn forum?! Well you for one. Maybe you haven't done this intentionally but you do realize that you have called me a troll in every single topic I have ever posted in. Most of the time I just ignore you but sense you asked, for someone who seems to think I'm the troll you are certainly being very troll like to words me. I rarely see you actually contribute anything to a topic, you mostly seem to pop in just to call me a troll and then leave.
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 14, 2010 5:41:46 GMT -5
That can also be said for man-women attraction. Not all guys like the same kind of woman, but one can still understand why certain kind of women attract certain kinds of guy even if oneself doesn't think of that kind of woman as attractive. By this logic you're saying that a man who is attracted to healthy young women can understand why another man would be attracted to overweight women? Because honest I don't understand that either, why would anyone be attracted to fat people? I'm not kidding, there are actually people who think being fat is sexy and try to make their partners fatter. There's really nothing wrong with loving someone who is fat but I think there is something wrong when the fat is the only quality you find attractive to the point of making the person unhealthy fat. I'm not sure what the exact weight limits are but I know that height plays a part in weight as well as actual body fat at at a certain points being a little over weight is still perfectly healthy and if that's attractive to some people then it's perfectly OK. It's only not OK when they make someone go over the limit of what is still a healthy weight. Now that I got that cleared up... why would anyone think being unhealthy fat is attractive, I don't understand that? Of course there are stereotypes but only for women. Don't tell me you haven't notices that every single actress on TV and movies has the same body type. They even tent to draw cartoons in the same body every time. The only time women ever look any different is when they want the character to be ugly and most of the time what they call ugly isn't even that far off from beautiful which helps the faulse idea of what beauty is. Take the show ugly Betty for example. The actress herself is just another stereotype and all they do to make her look "ugly" is give her glasses and braces. This is something that does not happen with men in the media. Actually... it is true... to some extent. The difference between reality and paranoia is weather or not it's intentional. Rational thought would dictate that this is a public forum and it's perfectly normal for certain people to respond to certain topics without caring who is actually posting there. Paranoia thought would cause me to think that you're intentionally just posting in my topics simply to try to piss me off. Simply put... yes I know this already. I can usually overcome paranoia on my own but I can only really handle so many people at a time. It only flares up in large crowds or if someone calls attention to it so it would kinda help if you didn't actually mention the fact that I'm paranoid and then I won't take notice to your names showing up everywhere I go.
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 14, 2010 5:47:54 GMT -5
Rialvestro, if you suffer from paranoia, then you must also understand that it will cause you to make assumptions about things that simply aren't true. Yes Alex, like how I always think people talking badly about me behind my back and how everyone seems to be plotting to kill me. Yes well I as said above, I try to ignore that feeling but you bringing up that I'm paranoid doesn't help matters any nor does that fact that you've responded to a great deal of my topics. So if you want to help, don't mention it and maybe try not to respond to me so much. I mean seriously, there are like 3 replies from you alone just to me before I even responded to the first reply you gave me. At least wait till I answer you before you post again.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 14, 2010 11:40:30 GMT -5
oh man, don't take it the wrong way but the way I see it you are one of the greatest trolls ever or you really need help. Who the fuck would follow you on a damn forum?! Well you for one. Maybe you haven't done this intentionally but you do realize that you have called me a troll in every single topic I have ever posted in. Most of the time I just ignore you but sense you asked, for someone who seems to think I'm the troll you are certainly being very troll like to words me. I rarely see you actually contribute anything to a topic, you mostly seem to pop in just to call me a troll and then leave. Because I really think that you may be trolling everyone. It may seem like a fallow you,I don't know, maybe because there is a limited ammount of topics on the moon? I just post in the most of the Debate and Anything and everything one's. Also I dont just call you a troll, I try to debate with you buy you are so wrong on so many things it really seems like trolling.
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 14, 2010 12:05:30 GMT -5
Well you for one. Maybe you haven't done this intentionally but you do realize that you have called me a troll in every single topic I have ever posted in. Most of the time I just ignore you but sense you asked, for someone who seems to think I'm the troll you are certainly being very troll like to words me. I rarely see you actually contribute anything to a topic, you mostly seem to pop in just to call me a troll and then leave. Because I really think that you may be trolling everyone. It may seem like a fallow you,I don't know, maybe because there is a limited ammount of topics on the moon? I just post in the most of the Debate and Anything and everything one's. Also I dont just call you a troll, I try to debate with you buy you are so wrong on so many things it really seems like trolling. So let me get this straight? Because I don't agree with you in certain debates you decided to just call me a troll? Wouldn't that actually make you the troll if you have to resort to that just because I don't agree with your opinions?
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 14, 2010 13:32:20 GMT -5
Because I really think that you may be trolling everyone. It may seem like a fallow you,I don't know, maybe because there is a limited ammount of topics on the moon? I just post in the most of the Debate and Anything and everything one's. Also I dont just call you a troll, I try to debate with you buy you are so wrong on so many things it really seems like trolling. So let me get this straight? Because I don't agree with you in certain debates you decided to just call me a troll? Wouldn't that actually make you the troll if you have to resort to that just because I don't agree with your opinions? Its not just that we don't agree, you are so wrong in almost everything it seems like only a troll would keep making posts like that just to get everyone agitated. Lets take this debate as it is a really good example of what I'm talking about. What you are saying is that YOU don't have the ability to look at another man, and tell weather a woman would be attracted to him. Even if everyone on this forum will say that they can do that with no problem you still hold your ground and state that your theory is true for all straight man. Can you explain that to me?
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Nov 14, 2010 14:18:15 GMT -5
Your example about fat women was just taking it too far. But tbh, even so. Yes, some people who don't like fat women (and btw, there is also women who like fat guys) would still be able to understand at least to some level the fact that another person actually likes fat women. And even with this example, what I said still is true. For example, if I like "simple", not to big, not too tall, not too voluptuous, not too skinny women, I still can see why other guys would like voluptuous and tall women.
I think you mean since =/.
Seriously? You don't see stereotypes in men? You don't see any kind of repeated idea of different kind of men? You are wrong, really. Muscleheads, nerds, family guys, cool/mysterious guys, frat boyy, etc. Whether you see it or not, they are there, and whether they are really stereotypes or not, media is showing as pretty boys and attractive guys (Twilight I suppose, could be a good example of media selling sex)
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 14, 2010 16:54:21 GMT -5
Its not just that we don't agree, you are so wrong in almost everything it seems like only a troll would keep making posts like that just to get everyone agitated. Lets take this debate as it is a really good example of what I'm talking about. What you are saying is that YOU don't have the ability to look at another man, and tell weather a woman would be attracted to him. Even if everyone on this forum will say that they can do that with no problem you still hold your ground and state that your theory is true for all straight man. Can you explain that to me? I don't make posts like that just to get everyone agitated. I make posts like that to help get my point across. I'm not the type of person to set out to agitate people and I didn't even know I was agitating anyone. Usually it's me who ends up agitated because people like you choose to insult me rather than talk to me. You are talking to me right now which is good but before you were just being insulting. Your example about fat women was just taking it too far. But tobh, even so. Yes, some people who don't like fat women (and btw, there is also women who like fat guys) would still be able to understand at least to some levelthe fact that another person actually likes fat women. And even with this example, what I said still is true. For example, if I like "simple", not to big, not too tall, not too voluptuous, not too skinny women, I still can see why other guys would like voluptuous and tall women. You did see I was talking about guys who like UNHEALTHY fat women right? Just be glad I didn't try to spell the word that means unhealthy fat and just described it instead. Nerd isn't a gender specific stereotype. Nerd can be any male or female who wears glasses, has braces, is a member of the AV club, plays D&D, and/or gets good grades in school. Musclehead or Jock is just guys who do sports which there's a female counterpart to that as the stuck up cheerleader. Family Guys are almost always fat and/or bald(ing) men. Cool/Mysterious is also not gender specific. Frat Boys are simply college drunks. So basically you just proved my point, there's no single stereotype for what the ideal man is suppose to be, they're all different. There is only one body type for women which does not reflect reality, skinny with big boobs. You did mention one thing, Twilight, which seems to be becoming a stereotype, but isn't quite there yet. Other than twilight that sweet guy with a dark side has only been used in some car insurance commercial without blatantly ripping off Twilight vampires. However if that's the stereotype for the ideal man, why am I still single? I fit that stereotype before Twilight made it a thing.
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Post by Lex on Nov 14, 2010 16:56:51 GMT -5
Lets take this debate as it is a really good example of what I'm talking about. What you are saying is that YOU don't have the ability to look at another man, and tell weather a woman would be attracted to him. Even if everyone on this forum will say that they can do that with no problem you still hold your ground and state that your theory is true for all straight man. Can you explain that to me?
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Nov 14, 2010 17:13:11 GMT -5
You did see I was talking about guys who like UNHEALTHY fat women right? Yeah, I read that, but you are missing the point/s: *** I don't think twilight was the first on doing that '-', but whatever. That's one stereotype for close to perfect women, but there is more stereotypes for attractive close to perfect women.
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 16, 2010 2:29:02 GMT -5
man rial.. we are not stalking you... we are all the common people who happen to always post in this section. its not like we look in your window at night. we just like to debate and you happen to be the starter of many of these debates or the one that has the most opposite view on the situation. so to put your mind at ease we are not following you we just like to argue and debate some of these very hot issues.
now to the topic at hand. media happens to warp the world for entertainment purposes. if you are well educated then you realize that these gimics are nothing more than ways to control people and make money and are targeted at the weak minded. yes media is very stereotypical on beauty and many other topics. however that is the point. they feed off of peoples insecurities and weaknesses to make a profit. ohh well thats just my thoughts though.
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