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Post by rialvestro on Nov 12, 2010 4:06:17 GMT -5
I just had this thought. For a long time now I hadn't really believed all that rubbish about how the media effects people's idea of beauty but I just thought of a way where perhaps it is true.
Women, even if their straight, have this rather odd ability to look at another woman and tell weather or not a man would find her attractive while straight men have no such insight. At first I thought this was just because all women are secretly bi.
However the whole idea of he media having an effect on that never occurred to me to think of it this way. In the media there really aren't any women who are really ugly. Even when there are ugly women in movies and on TV it's the character who is meant to be ugly and not the actress playing her, they use makeup to make people look more or less attractive then they really are. With men however, there isn't a stereotype build that all men are suppose to look like.
Women tend to be anorexic because the women on TV, in movies, and magazines are all thin. However with men, the builds range from tall and muscular to short and fat. There's no generic look that all men in media strive to be so men have no idea what women would find attractive unless they are actually attracted to other men themselves.
So basically all women need is more fat women to appear in movies, TV shows, and magazines (which may actually be happening already, I don't pay that much attention to the media anymore.) and straight women should eventually loose their anorexic disorders as well as their rather odd ability to see attractive qualities in other women without being attracted to other women themselves.
Basically... women have Rosanne, men have Drew Carey, Larry the Cable Guy, John Candy, Andy Griffin, and a long line of other big name fat celebs who often get leading roles while the only really fat women get bit parts.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 12, 2010 11:39:45 GMT -5
If I remember it right, anorexia first showed up in our society in the victorian era so television is not the source of this problem.
Also to that:
"There's no generic look that all men in media strive to be so men have no idea what women would find attractive unless they are actually attracted to other men themselves."
and that:
"and straight women should eventually loose their anorexic disorders as well as their rather odd ability to see attractive qualities in other women without being attracted to other women themselves."
That is so wrong I don't know if you are trolling or did you just came from another planet. You are really telling me that you see all man as equally good looking? So a short fat guy and a tall guy full of mucles look the same in your mind? Also how is seeing who is more attractive in the same gender an odd ability?
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 12, 2010 12:37:17 GMT -5
If I remember it right, anorexia first showed up in our society in the victorian era so television is not the source of this problem. Media, as listed above, is not limited to just television so a lack of TV does not mean a lack of media. They still had some form of media back then. News is form of media in the form of a news paper which I do believe they had in Victorian era. Obviously you fail to follow my logic either that or you think I'm gay. How would I as a straight man know what "good looking" is unless someone else told me what "good looking" is. Straight men aren't attracted to other men just as straight women aren't attracted to other women but despite the lack of attraction women still know what is attractive about them for some bizarre reason while men have no such insight. Long story short, all men are f-ing ugly. Because attraction is = to sexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with it if you're actually gay but it is odd if you're straight to find the same gender attractive. To put it from a gay perspective, even though gay men are not themselves attracted to women they still know what straight men would find attractive in them which is an odd ability for someone who is supposedly gay. I don't know any lesbians but I'm betting a lesbian wouldn't know what straight women find attractive in men sense they don't themselves find men attractive and have no indicators of what an attractive man should look like. Basically I'm simply thinking that the media could be a reason why everyone, regardless of their own sexuality, can see attractive qualities in women but with men, only people who actually want to sleep with men are able to see their attractive qualities. From another perspective, lets say media vs. reality. Not everyone is effected by media as there are groups of people who are attracted to things not shown in the media. In other words while there are women who are lead to believe that big breasts = attractive there are men such as myself who view natural breasts = attractive. Size to some does not matter. On the other hand, the media and reality both have conflicting interests on things for men such as weather or not facial hair is attractive or not. Shaving commercials try to tell you that a clean face is attractive of course because they need to sell a product. While on the other hand there are several celebs who have beards. In the real world there seems to be, as proven on our own site, a debate as to weather or not beards are attractive. Proven as in look at the debates regarding weather or not Dan should shave. Danielle is the one who actually has to put up with Dan's beard and she actually likes the beard so really her opinion on what Dan should or shouldn't do with his beard is the only one that really matters. Well Dan's opinion matters too but in a different way, in the it's his face sort of way not the does he think it's attractive sort of way. I'm sure Dan doesn't know one way or the other about which is more attractive just as I don't know one way or the other if my own beard is attractive. My ex didn't like my beard and I shaved for a while just to please her but sense I haven't been with her for a while I've grown it back because frankly, I don't like my face. Not because I think I'm ugly but because I'm 24 and I think having a clean face makes me look like I'm 12. |
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Post by stephen5000 on Nov 12, 2010 12:41:29 GMT -5
I'm gay, and I know that I wouldn't know what men would find attractive in women without the media telling me. Though from personal experience talking to people, what many men (and women) actually find attractive differs greatly from the media portrayal.
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 12, 2010 13:11:40 GMT -5
I'm gay, and I know that I wouldn't know what men would find attractive in women without the media telling me. Though from personal experience talking to people, what many men (and women) actually find attractive differs greatly from the media portrayal. As stated before, I don't believe the media has an effect on everyone which is why some people can find attraction outside of the media stereotype but even when there isn't a profound effect there's still a minor effect. Example, while I personally don't care about breast size as long as they're natural I still prefer them bigger if possible. I won't turn down a girl with small breasts because she may have other attractive qualities. However if girl has fake breasts, I don't find that attractive at all. Not only do they not look and I imagine they don't feel real but all I would think about is an unnecessary surgery for a rather trivial thing. |
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Quinn
Star
[AWD:191c07]
The eye of compromise.
Posts: 580
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Post by Quinn on Nov 12, 2010 15:28:55 GMT -5
This happens very often in teenage girls.
They will see a celebrity on tv or in a magazine and think, "Wow! why don't I look like that?" And they will do irrational things to make themselves be "pretty." And in some cases, this can be life threatening.
Some of these irrational things include: anorexia, and bulimia. Both, obviously harmful.
This may also occur when a person is picked on at school. Being called "fat" and "ugly" is an example.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 13, 2010 0:24:40 GMT -5
If I remember it right, anorexia first showed up in our society in the victorian era so television is not the source of this problem. Media, as listed above, is not limited to just television so a lack of TV does not mean a lack of media. They still had some form of media back then. News is form of media in the form of a news paper which I do believe they had in Victorian era. Obviously you fail to follow my logic either that or you think I'm gay. How would I as a straight man know what "good looking" is unless someone else told me what "good looking" is. Straight men aren't attracted to other men just as straight women aren't attracted to other women but despite the lack of attraction women still know what is attractive about them for some bizarre reason while men have no such insight. Long story short, all men are f-ing ugly. Because attraction is = to sexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with it if you're actually gay but it is odd if you're straight to find the same gender attractive. To put it from a gay perspective, even though gay men are not themselves attracted to women they still know what straight men would find attractive in them which is an odd ability for someone who is supposedly gay. I don't know any lesbians but I'm betting a lesbian wouldn't know what straight women find attractive in men sense they don't themselves find men attractive and have no indicators of what an attractive man should look like. Basically I'm simply thinking that the media could be a reason why everyone, regardless of their own sexuality, can see attractive qualities in women but with men, only people who actually want to sleep with men are able to see their attractive qualities. From another perspective, lets say media vs. reality. Not everyone is effected by media as there are groups of people who are attracted to things not shown in the media. In other words while there are women who are lead to believe that big breasts = attractive there are men such as myself who view natural breasts = attractive. Size to some does not matter. On the other hand, the media and reality both have conflicting interests on things for men such as weather or not facial hair is attractive or not. Shaving commercials try to tell you that a clean face is attractive of course because they need to sell a product. While on the other hand there are several celebs who have beards. In the real world there seems to be, as proven on our own site, a debate as to weather or not beards are attractive. Proven as in look at the debates regarding weather or not Dan should shave. Danielle is the one who actually has to put up with Dan's beard and she actually likes the beard so really her opinion on what Dan should or shouldn't do with his beard is the only one that really matters. Well Dan's opinion matters too but in a different way, in the it's his face sort of way not the does he think it's attractive sort of way. I'm sure Dan doesn't know one way or the other about which is more attractive just as I don't know one way or the other if my own beard is attractive. My ex didn't like my beard and I shaved for a while just to please her but sense I haven't been with her for a while I've grown it back because frankly, I don't like my face. Not because I think I'm ugly but because I'm 24 and I think having a clean face makes me look like I'm 12. hehe, you write so much I really don't feel like even reading all of that, maybe I will come back to this debate like I feel like reading a book  |
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Post by Lex on Nov 13, 2010 0:29:36 GMT -5
Attraction =/= sexuality. Sexual attraction is part of sexuality, yes. But attraction is a very broad concept involving a load of things. And sexual attraction is only a small part of the concept of attraction in general.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 13, 2010 0:33:31 GMT -5
Attraction =/= sexuality. Sexual attraction is part of sexuality, yes. But attraction is a very broad concept involving a load of things. And sexual attraction is only a small part of the concept of attraction in general. according to rialvestro's theory I must be gey since I can tell with man are more attractive..... |
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Post by Lex on Nov 13, 2010 0:38:17 GMT -5
Attraction =/= sexuality. Sexual attraction is part of sexuality, yes. But attraction is a very broad concept involving a load of things. And sexual attraction is only a small part of the concept of attraction in general. according to rialvestro's theory I must be gey since I can tell with man are more attractive..... Physical attractiveness is generally something that a lot of people perceive based on both human nature (apparently human beings find symmetry in faces more attractive, so says my mother), but also what we've been influenced to find attractive. Sexual desire is different, but related. You don't have to be sexually attracted to someone to find them physically attractive, and vice versa (though, it might be rarer) |
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Post by Ricky on Nov 13, 2010 0:53:14 GMT -5
I think that maybe we are putting a bit too much blame on the media when talking about this subject. Its just that well before the invention of television, many people did a lot of stupid things to become what they believed to be beautiful. I'm not saying that media doesn't make it worse, its just not the cause.
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Quinn
Star
[AWD:191c07]
The eye of compromise.
Posts: 580
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Post by Quinn on Nov 13, 2010 1:11:59 GMT -5
I think that maybe we are putting a bit too much blame on the media when talking about this subject. Its just that well before the invention of television, many people did a lot of stupid things to become what they believed to be beautiful. I'm not saying that media doesn't make it worse, its just not the cause. As long as we have peer jeolousy, the issue will be among us. |
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Nov 13, 2010 1:27:52 GMT -5
according to rialvestro's theory I must be gey since I can tell with man are more attractive..... Physical attractiveness is generally something that a lot of people perceive based on both human nature (apparently human beings find symmetry in faces more attractive, so says my mother), but also what we've been influenced to find attractive. Sexual desire is different, but related. You don't have to be sexually attracted to someone to find them physically attractive, and vice versa (though, it might be rarer) I think first thing that influences what we find attractive is nature, then comes the generally accepted look of society. Imo the reason fat people are unattractive to most people is because it is unhealthy to be fat. And when the signs of aging show too much it is perceived as unattractive to us naturally because that person's body is (likely) not fit for reproduction. And also, yea, it's absurd to think that you would have to be gay in order to tell if certain men are attractive or not. If you know how to look good then you should be able to tell which men around you are attractive to ze women (in general) and which aren't. |
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 13, 2010 4:23:52 GMT -5
Attraction =/= sexuality. Sexual attraction is part of sexuality, yes. But attraction is a very broad concept involving a load of things. And sexual attraction is only a small part of the concept of attraction in general. What the heck are you talking about? Attraction is always sexual. The only reason, as said before, that people see attraction in people they are not actually attracted to is because the media sets the bar for what is seen as attractive. To put it simply, I myself do not find other men attractive but if there was some universal code for what features were seen as attractive in men such as lets say, being clean shaven. Maybe if all celebs were clean shaven all the time I might make an effort to shave all the time knowing that's attractive. And I would look at other men who had facial hair and know it wasn't attractive not because I think that but because that's what media would lead me to believe. However there is no universal thing for weather or not men should shave so I have no idea what women are going to find attractive, a shaven face or a beard. And women seem to reflect this opinion as I've seen conflicting opinions about weather or not men should have beards. So by your reasoning, how would it be possible for a straight man to find beards more attractive or a clean face more attractive without anyone telling them that or being sexually attracted to one certain type of men themselves? By my reasoning a straight man can't have a preference in other men for beard or no beard because a straight man would not care one way or the other about another man's appearance. The only face a straight man cares about is his own. Men tend to shave, not because they think it's more attractive to do so, but because having a beard can be very itching and irritating to some men. Other men find shaving to be itching and irritating not to mention expensive and cold. (If you're use to having a beard all the time and then suddenly shave it your face feels cold for a while even if it's summer time.) So why men shave or don't shave really has nothing to do with what they personally find to be attractive. the reason fat people are unattractive to most people is because it is unhealthy to be fat. It's also unhealthy to be overly skinny to the point where your ribs are showing but that's still what people think is attractive. Many girls who are skinny in a healthy way still think of themselves as fat. |
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Post by Lex on Nov 13, 2010 14:18:45 GMT -5
Attraction =/= sexuality. Sexual attraction is part of sexuality, yes. But attraction is a very broad concept involving a load of things. And sexual attraction is only a small part of the concept of attraction in general. What the heck are you talking about? Attraction is always sexual. The only reason, as said before, that people see attraction in people they are not actually attracted to is because the media sets the bar for what is seen as attractive. No. You're going off on your paranoid conspiracy theories again. Attraction is not always sexual. Attraction is a HUGE concept that doesn't just involve people, but concepts, and objects. What attracts me to eating french fries, for example? It's still a type of "attraction" Now, if you're narrowing it down to physical attraction, as I said: humans, by nature, are attracted to symmetry. We are more likely to consider a symmetrical face attractive, as compared to an asymmetrical face. Even if identifying what's physically attractive is influenced by life experiences, it's not always sexual. You're failing to understand this. You're creating a false dichotomy. By my reasoning a straight man can't have a preference in other men for beard or no beard because a straight man would not care one way or the other about another man's appearance. The only face a straight man cares about is his own. Men tend to shave, not because they think it's more attractive to do so, but because having a beard can be very itching and irritating to some men. Other men find shaving to be itching and irritating not to mention expensive and cold. (If you're use to having a beard all the time and then suddenly shave it your face feels cold for a while even if it's summer time.) So why men shave or don't shave really has nothing to do with what they personally find to be attractive. Rialvestro, it's becoming clear to me that you likely have mental issues involving social interactions. You over-simplify things, you hold an "I'm always right" attitude, you come to wild and paranoid conclusions about the world and then shut out facts and reason. It also seems that you have deeply rooted homophobia. Every time we bring up an issue involving sexuality, attraction, gender, etc... you always bring up the issue of homosexuality, and you always seem afraid of being gay. It seems to fuel your paranoia, and thus, you create these delusions where you over-simplify things in order to justify everything. It's troubling to see that you're attempting to have social interactions on this message board, but not listening to reason. With these issues, I really don't think it's wise for you to be posting on internet message boards until you get help. I'm not saying this to be mean or offensive, but because I know that there are a lot of rather unforgiving people on the internet, who will get extremely annoyed with you, and may say some really nasty things. Those are just my thoughts. |
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 13, 2010 16:02:52 GMT -5
alex, I think you are really wrong about rialvestro. I think he is just a really really good troll and everyone in this forum falls into his trap over and over again.
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Post by Lex on Nov 13, 2010 16:19:18 GMT -5
alex, I think you are really wrong about rialvestro. I think he is just a really really good troll and everyone in this forum falls into his trap over and over again. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. |
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Post by Alex on Nov 13, 2010 16:25:49 GMT -5
I don't think trolls go through the trouble of NaNoWriMoing every post.
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Post by Freddy on Nov 13, 2010 16:34:59 GMT -5
Really good ones do.
It makes you doubt!
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 13, 2010 16:39:31 GMT -5
that's why I called him a "really really good troll"
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