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Post by newschooled on Nov 12, 2010 12:25:46 GMT -5
Discuss.
What is it? What's it like? Are there 'levels' to it? Heck, does it even exist?
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Post by stephen5000 on Nov 12, 2010 12:49:22 GMT -5
Personally, I don't see how an afterlife could exist. Life after death presumes some part of our existence keeps on existing after we die. Upon death, our body dies and so does our mind (since it depends on the body to exist). We would have to have some nonphysical part to our existence, but how would that work?
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Post by newschooled on Nov 12, 2010 13:25:50 GMT -5
We would have to have some nonphysical part to our existence, but how would that work? Take our thoughts for example - They are electrical impulses. We know this. Ergo, it can be described as 'Energy'. Energy can exist beyond a physical container. Like lightning for example. It's quick, but it happens. So consciousness itself being energy aswell - Couldn't that work by the same principal, regardless of time? |
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Post by rialvestro on Nov 12, 2010 14:16:29 GMT -5
Um... wow... talk about hitting the nail on the head.
Yes, we have electrical impulses which is an energy which in theory, keeps on "living" long after it's body or container has died.
That being said, life after death is possible. Ghosts are simply nothing more than energy. We think of ghosts as something magical and say it doesn't exist but it's not magical, we simply call it magic because we don't understand it.
And why is that people who believe in angels and demons think that people who just believe in ghosts of people who have passed on are the crazy ones? Obviously what one person calls a ghost and another calls an angel or demon are in fact the same things.
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Post by austkyzor on Nov 12, 2010 14:25:55 GMT -5
Personally - I feel that the energy well all have - the one that keeps on living after we die - can be seen as our spirit, or our soul.
Besides, our minds remain active when our bodies go silent - that's what dreams are. It's possible that if somebody could have a non-functional body, but still retain cognitive function.
Which leads to interesting philosophical questions about artificial intelligence, but that's another topic entirely.
Anyways - In my own personal belief, when our bodies die, the energy is released, and within said energy is our spirits, tied to our minds and conscience. No real paradise, just being everything all at once. The movie Hereafter shows what I mean quite nicely. I don't expect people to agree or share in my beliefs - I'm just saying them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2010 15:00:28 GMT -5
Besides, our minds remain active when our bodies go silent - that's what dreams are. It's possible that if somebody could have a non-functional body, but still retain cognitive function. While the body is asleep, the brain is in its most active state of work. All our essential functions for survival work, all parts of our brain (except the logical cortex) are more active during sleep than when awake. For someone to retain cognitive function, there needs to be oxygen being transported to the brain. Personally, I doubt there is anything like an afterlife. Even having in account what was said about "or soul being energy", I think it does not apply, as I think the brain relates more with RAM memory from computers. Just like RAM memory, our brain records data while receiving energy (our memories, our way of being, etc). When no more energy is transmitted to the brain, this data is lost (or else there would be no problem in having the brain oxygen deprived for more than a few minutes, these minutes are when there is still enough energy to keep the brain working). At least it is my point of view. |
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Post by austkyzor on Nov 12, 2010 15:15:46 GMT -5
Like I said - I don't expect ANYBODY to agree with, or share in my own beliefs. As long as nobody tries to force their own beliefs (or lack thereof) on me.
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Post by Lex on Nov 12, 2010 17:12:45 GMT -5
No. I don't believe in an afterlife. I have no real reason to.
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Post by newschooled on Nov 12, 2010 17:41:52 GMT -5
No. I don't believe in an afterlife. I have no real reason to. Do you have a reason NOT to?  |
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Post by Lex on Nov 12, 2010 17:49:07 GMT -5
No. I don't believe in an afterlife. I have no real reason to. Do you have a reason NOT to? Meaning what? |
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Post by amon91 on Nov 12, 2010 18:34:17 GMT -5
Humans can't conceive death, even though we have the concept, such concept is purely intellectual. I don't believe in afterlife, that's a total fruit of our imagination.
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Cortney
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Post by Cortney on Nov 12, 2010 19:16:11 GMT -5
Do you have a reason NOT to? Meaning what? Meaning why DON'T you believe in the afterlife? =P For example, let's read my post!! 1!! I don't believe in the afterlife simply because it makes no sense to me. As others have said, when our bodies die our minds die. The brain needs oxygen to function, so what is essentially us (our personalities, opinions, etc) ceases to exist. However, the energy of our thoughts could "live" on, but that's not really us, that's just energy we released at some point in time. Like farts. Do you live on through your farts? Doubt it. |
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Post by Ryan on Nov 12, 2010 19:41:07 GMT -5
Humans can't conceive death, even though we have the concept, such concept is purely intellectual. I don't believe in afterlife, that's a total fruit of our imagination. Instead of saying that humans can't conceive death, it should rather be said that humans can't conceive what exists after death. I have had a death experience (I was legally dead for 8 minutes, so it was not a near death experience). I find that I (and yes, I am human) can conceive death. I cannot fully conceive what is after death though, since I did not experience that (or enough of that) to have a conception. In order for there to be an after-life, there would have to be some part of the body that survives death. Many people in this thread have brought up the energy produced by consciousness and electrical impulses in our brains as some part of us that could possibly be that part. However, as these electrical impulses are simply the product of chemical reactions, they are just that - impulses. These impulses are not thoughts, and they only appear to be thoughts because there is a specific pattern of them. This pattern is similar to the pattern of 0s and 1s that would be used to produce an image on a computer screen. Without something creating this pattern, the thought will not survive, and thus the consciousness (at least as described above) can't survive death so long as it is only energy in the form of these electrical impulses. That does not exclude the potentiality of there being some part of our body and self that does survive death. This is one of the primary questions of philosophy, and many philosophers have addressed this issue. Of all that I have read, most philosophers agree that if any part of the self could survive death it would be the soul. So really the question being asked here, is about the nature of a soul. Now, while many people may be quick to dismiss the idea of a soul, it is an idea shared by all philosophers that there does exist a soul. The questions they ask about the soul, and the answers that they find vary far and wide. Some believe in a immaterial, immortal soul (similar to the idea of religion), others believe in a material, mortal soul (similar to an idea relating to science). To determine whether or not there is or is not an after-life, we would have to take into account arguments about the soul. Since most of the posters here are not fully brushed up with philosophy (including myself, as I only have a very limited view into some of the arguments presented about the soul), I find that debating about the nature of the soul here, would be very time consuming, and most people would resort to personal feelings instead of logic and debate tactics. As such, I think that spending time debating this, is actually pointless. A better question to ask about the after-life would be more of a hypothetical one. What if perhaps, there were an after-life. What would it be like? |
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Post by Lex on Nov 12, 2010 19:52:26 GMT -5
I don't believe in an afterlife because it makes the life we have right now less special.
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Post by Ryan on Nov 12, 2010 20:29:06 GMT -5
I don't believe in an afterlife because it makes the life we have right now less special. How does a life after this one, make this one less special? Only if you have preconceived notions about what an existence in an after-life might be could you say this for certain. For instance, what if the afterlife, was existing as an unfeeling unthinking blob of energy until something used that energy? What if it were an eternal damnation? What if the after-life was some form of reincarnation? How do any of those make the life you are currently living less special? If anything, I think an after-life makes it so that this life is all the more special, because we know it exists and we know it ends. |
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Post by Ricky on Nov 12, 2010 20:43:00 GMT -5
To be honest I don't think there is anything after this life. I mostly think of humanity' bodies as biological machines, and as such, I just think that once they power down, they just... well power down... Nothing special about it, really.
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Post by Lex on Nov 12, 2010 21:17:27 GMT -5
I don't believe in an afterlife because it makes the life we have right now less special. How does a life after this one, make this one less special? Only if you have preconceived notions about what an existence in an after-life might be could you say this for certain. For instance, what if the afterlife, was existing as an unfeeling unthinking blob of energy until something used that energy? What if it were an eternal damnation? What if the after-life was some form of reincarnation? How do any of those make the life you are currently living less special? If anything, I think an after-life makes it so that this life is all the more special, because we know it exists and we know it ends. But that's exactly why an afterlife does not make it special. If life continues after death, it devalues this life. In that case, we wouldn't only have one life to live. Personally, I would find that it would take away all the meaning that this life has. |
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Post by Ryan on Nov 12, 2010 21:41:56 GMT -5
who said anything about life continuing like it is now though? The concept of an afterlife is that something or part of you survives death, but obviously not all of you does, so it is quite clearly not a continuation of this life. If such a thing as an existence after death were to exist, it would be nothing like the current life you live. Of this part I am certain, even though I do not hold any stance on whether or not such an existence occurs.
In regards arguments thus far presented about the non-existence of an afterlife (with the exception of alex's), I really think Ricky did a nice job of summing them all up in one simple sweet way.
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Flappy
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Post by Flappy on Nov 12, 2010 22:53:53 GMT -5
This is honestly something I could care less about. I think it's weird. I'm an atheist, and I think the possibility of an afterlife is slim. But technically our physical bodies decompose and the particles from our bodies go on to make up other things eventually...but I dunno...
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Post by Lex on Nov 12, 2010 23:32:29 GMT -5
This is honestly something I could care less about. I think it's weird. I'm an atheist, and I think the possibility of an afterlife is slim. But technically our physical bodies decompose and the particles from our bodies go on to make up other things eventually...but I dunno... I've thought about that before, how the energy and matter from our bodies goes on to form other things. |
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