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Post by Ricky on Nov 19, 2010 2:07:44 GMT -5
Why is there still a full commercial, economic, and financial embargo imposed on Cuba? I mean, Is it because all US properties were Nationalized after the revolution? No, because other countries such as Venezuela have Nationalized its industries which were previously controlled by U.S. investors.(oil industry) [Yes it caused a mayor opposition from U.S. and created great anti Hugo Chavez propaganda (most of which is untrue) in America, but no embargo...] Is it because they are communist?No, because the U.S. has mayor economical ties with countries like China, and North Korea... [both of which have communist states] Is it payback because of the failed invasion at the Bay of Pigs?It shouldn't be because this is not the first time the U.S. is not able to set their desired government in place on a foreign country. Such as Vietnam (Cold War), Venezuela (failed cue), and Canada (War of 1812) So, what is it then? Its not about Democracy, or freedom, and its not because they might be a National threat. I mean in all reality its almost a miracle that Cuba is doing as well as it is with the embargo... For example: - Cuba has a 100% literacy rate (U.S. has 97%)
- Cuba has one doctor per 175 people (The U.S. has one doctor per 470 people, and the UK one per 600 people)
Yes, Economically the U.S is doing much better than Cuba, but is that because of the ineffectiveness of its leaders or the embargo itself? Needless to say, my opinion is that the embargo should be lifted if no real solid reasons still exist today to have it in place. but thats my opinion, what do you guys think?
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Post by IAMNTHOMAS on Nov 19, 2010 16:45:51 GMT -5
Its because US doesn't like Castro.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 19, 2010 16:48:09 GMT -5
"Yes, Economically the U.S is doing much better than Cuba, but is that because of the ineffectiveness of its leaders or the embargo itself?"
Both, but mostly because its a communist state.
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Post by amon91 on Nov 19, 2010 17:32:00 GMT -5
I think lifting it would be the best thing to do for both countries. Doubt that will happen anytime soon with a GOP-controlled congress.
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Post by Ricky on Nov 19, 2010 18:14:07 GMT -5
"Yes, Economically the U.S is doing much better than Cuba, but is that because of the ineffectiveness of its leaders or the embargo itself?" Both, but mostly because its a communist state. Explain your answer though. It is understandable that the economy would be doing badly since the U.S is not trading with them, only because the U.S is an economical power in very high proximity. That being said, China, and North Korea are doing very well economically and they are both Communist states. Therefore that can't be the reason...
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Post by austkyzor on Nov 19, 2010 20:44:34 GMT -5
The whole thing is extraordinarily stupid. There really is no reason for the embargo to have continued at all after the 80s - It's probably because the US is still essentially run by petty people who are still miffed because Cuba was a capitalist's playground before the revolution.
Meanwhile, the rest of the planet put any bad blood behind them - hell, Canada has been a solid trade partner with Cuba since the revolution itself.
As for why it's not doing so well - that's because Cuba doesn't get very many tourists - which isn't very good for a country in a region when the primary industry is tourism. Since the main tourists in the Caribbean Islands are from North America, Cuba has a bit of a disadvantage - to the sum of the entire population of the United States who don't travel there.
Cuba has to make up for it with exports - on an economic scale, they're doing reasonably well, but there's only so much they can do without trade relations with the US.
You'll certainly be able to tell when the embargo ends though - when the price of sugar suddenly plummets - and the flavour of soda dramatically improves.
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Post by Ricky on Nov 19, 2010 21:29:46 GMT -5
The whole thing is extraordinarily stupid. There really is no reason for the embargo to have continued at all after the 80s - It's probably because the US is still essentially run by petty people who are still miffed because Cuba was a capitalist's playground before the revolution. Meanwhile, the rest of the planet put any bad blood behind them - hell, Canada has been a solid trade partner with Cuba since the revolution itself. As for why it's not doing so well - that's because Cuba doesn't get very many tourists - which isn't very good for a country in a region when the primary industry is tourism. Since the main tourists in the Caribbean Islands are from North America, Cuba has a bit of a disadvantage - to the sum of the entire population of the United States who don't travel there. Cuba has to make up for it with exports - on an economic scale, they're doing reasonably well, but there's only so much they can do without trade relations with the US. You'll certainly be able to tell when the embargo ends though - when the price of sugar suddenly plummets - and the flavour of soda dramatically improves. I completely agree with you. By the way, the reason why not many people from the U.S. visit Cuba is because is illegal for planes to fly out of the U.S. to Cuba, and specially illegal for U.S. citizens to travel there (though many still do by coming to Canada or going to Mexico and flying from there). I really thought something about this was going to happen when Obama came into power, but I guess its not something seen as very important by the govn't in power.
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 19, 2010 21:32:57 GMT -5
"Yes, Economically the U.S is doing much better than Cuba, but is that because of the ineffectiveness of its leaders or the embargo itself?" Both, but mostly because its a communist state. Explain your answer though. It is understandable that the economy would be doing badly since the U.S is not trading with them, only because the U.S is an economical power in very high proximity. That being said, China, and North Korea are doing very well economically and they are both Communist states. Therefore that can't be the reason... North Krea, communist, people dying from starvation South Korea, capitalist, people dying to get the new IPad. how can you say that NKorea is doing well?
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Post by Ricky on Nov 19, 2010 21:48:14 GMT -5
North Krea, communist, people dying from starvation South Korea, capitalist, people dying to get the new IPad. how can you say that NKorea is doing well? Actually I included North Korea to prove a point, you are trolling. If you really believed that any communist state would do bad just for being a communist state you would have also added a comment about China. You didn't, and therefore are aware that China is doing well economically even though its Communist. Proving that not even you believe what you are saying, which means... that you are trolling. :]
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Post by hobo8675309 on Nov 19, 2010 22:29:54 GMT -5
Well, the US government has taken the tendencies of a corrupt kleptocracy. It uses hatemongering aginats reasonable people like Castro, as opposed to negotiating and learning from organizations with different beliefs. We cannot excell any longer as we did in 1790, because we will not adopt policies from numerous systems of government, instead, we are now uncompromising, unreasonable, and closed-minded.
Castro is a great leader. I do not agree with every policy he has adopted, however, he acheived economic and social justice for the first time in Cuban history. Castro was faced with one of the most challenging situations a leader could face in world history, and when he left office, Cuba was a politically stable nation. Just one example is his effective method of managing food. Despite losing many of his imports following the trade embargo, Castro was able to ration food in such a way as to reuce deaths from malnutrition by 80%. Another feild in which Castro excelled was providing land to average paisano, by finally taking back the land from the Latin American robber barons for the people.
Castro guaranteed social justice for previously opressed groups. Great ammounts of justice were brought upon women for the first time in human hsitory, and despite the sentiments aginst blacks in Cuba circa 1950, racism was virtually unheard of by 2008 as every ethnic minority was absorbed by Cuban society. During Castro's rule, restrictions based on economic class were obliterated.
America embargoed Castro simply because of diplomatic fervor and capitalist sentiment. Only because of Cuba's positive relations with Soviet Russia and a minor conflict with the Soviets during the Marshall Plan, the government and the rednecks who push the Democrats far to the right, did we immediately turn to violen t interaction at the Bay of Pigs (which is why we haven't withdrawn the embargo depsite the increase in demand for sugar, Cuba's cheif export).
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 20, 2010 0:15:47 GMT -5
North Krea, communist, people dying from starvation South Korea, capitalist, people dying to get the new IPad. how can you say that NKorea is doing well? Actually I included North Korea to prove a point, you are trolling. If you really believed that any communist state would do bad just for being a communist state you would have also added a comment about China. You didn't, and therefore are aware that China is doing well economically even though its Communist. Proving that not even you believe what you are saying, which means... that you are trolling. :] I don't really see your point...... China practices economic slavery, in US during the civil war it was known as the northern slavery. Their GDP per capita is still really low because of that. What is a point of having a huge economy if it doesn't really profit people? Communism is a fail. If you really wanted to make a decent argument you should mention Vietnam.
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Post by Ricky on Nov 20, 2010 2:05:49 GMT -5
I don't really see your point...... China practices economic slavery, in US during the civil war it was known as the northern slavery. Their GDP per capita is still really low because of that. What is a point of having a huge economy if it doesn't really profit people? Communism is a fail. If you really wanted to make a decent argument you should mention Vietnam. uhmm... GDP per capita means an approximation of the value of goods produced per person in the country, equal to the country's GDP divided by the total number of people in the country, right? The United states has 307,006,550 people. The People's Republic of China has 1,324,655,000 people. It would make sense that even if their GDP is $9.05 trillion when divided by so many it would seem like less than how their economy is actually doing. Anyways... you still haven't told me how being communist has affected Cuba more so than the embargo itself... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ hobo8675309: I do think that Castro has become a bit too paranoid in his later years. That being said, he did manage to balance a great system, regardless of the challenges that were put on his way. I honestly think that he was pushed to put the label of Communism on the country due to the fact that he had to ally himself with the Soviet Union after the embargo, but it just seems more like he created new policies than adopted them from Marxism. I also agree that the U.S. is way too close minded and prefers to teach flawed ideas than to adopt new ones, but thats another subject (would make a great topic for another thread though)
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