Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 21, 2010 22:38:07 GMT -5
I was listening to the Tribal Leadership Audio book (PM if you don't have one and wish to) and i noticed something.
We don't have a way to punish people for not following our values.. Much less the push for our Noble cause has all but evaporated.
We aren't really serious about being anything are we? I came here to quell my inner activist. just to find that not only are we not even close to stage 4. we seem not to be able to even hold onto stage 3 in any beneficial way.
What are we doing here?
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Post by kdphilosophy on Nov 21, 2010 22:46:16 GMT -5
Good question. I haven't an answer at this time
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Post by Breepop on Nov 21, 2010 22:58:01 GMT -5
We don't have a way to punish people for not following our values.. Much less the push for our Noble cause has all but evaporated. Why do we need to punish people? That seems like... an overreaction. We're not trying to make people perfect. They're just a set of guidelines. Also, we're really close to the Nobel Cause. Rob was doing live shows for it a while ago, and we finished up the first "stage" (for lack of a better word) of the process of figuring it out. So he took a break from the live shows to prepare for the next stage. Also, I assume/know he has a life. Just because there's been a [much-needed] break from that doesn't mean the "push" has "evaporated." That's silly. I'm no where near an expert on all that Tribal Leadership stuff, but I do know, just because we're not following it perfectly or rapidly moving through the process doesn't mean we smell like sweaty pits. And I'm so far past annoyed with people thinking otherwise. <_< P.S. It's also your fault we're not Stage 4. Don't go blamin' everyone else. kthx. P.S.S. I hate when these "wtf are we doing" threads crop up. It's the same thread over and over. They just cause drama. This community is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too focused on what we're not (and it always has been), instead of what we are, and how great that is. Stop worrying about it so much. Stop trying to force it. Just let it happen. Do you really think we're going to get to Stage 4 by running around screaming, "Are we Stage 4 yet? What? Why not? Stage 3 sucks! I hate this! When are we going to be Stage 4? AND WHAT ABOUT STAGE 5? GOD THIS IS TAKING FOREVER!" I promise you, it's not. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's moving us backwards. >.> k /rant
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Post by Rob on Nov 21, 2010 23:18:21 GMT -5
If you were really paying attention while listening to that lovely book, you'd have heard that punishment is hardly a part of advancing stages. It's either you abide by our values or you don't; if you don't, you'll end up leaving anyway.
Where do we see the most punishment? Do you remember discussion of Stage 1 and the examples? Yeah, prison.
I'm not about to revert to a stage 1 activity (punishment for value-breakers) to try to advance stages. That doesn't make any sense.
And the push for a noble cause has not at all evaporated. I took the month of November off of that to figure out how to next approach it. Also, the turnout was almost always very poor for discussion... so I don't know why you seem to think people are bugging out about it.
Also, I like everything Bree said. You heard me.
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Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 21, 2010 23:44:41 GMT -5
Why do we need to punish people? That seems like... an overreaction. We're not trying to make people perfect. They're just a set of guidelines. Values that aren't enforced have no value. thus meaningless Also, we're really close to the Nobel Cause. Rob was doing live shows for it a while ago, and we finished up the first "stage" (for lack of a better word) of the process of figuring it out. So he took a break from the live shows to prepare for the next stage. Also, I assume/know he has a life. Just because there's been a [much-needed] break from that doesn't mean the "push" has "evaporated." That's silly. Lack of updates means no progress (even an update of "haven't forgotten" is all that's needed) I'm no where near an expert on all that Tribal Leadership stuff, but I do know, just because we're not following it perfectly or rapidly moving through the process doesn't mean we smell like sweaty pits. And I'm so far past annoyed with people thinking otherwise. <_< It's not about perfection, or it's speed. but what do you call a boat with out a bottom... driftwood P.S. It's also your fault we're not Stage 4. Don't go blamin' everyone else. kthx. I said WE, i am part of we. I'm also to blame for not nagging people with what Can be improved P.S.S. I hate when these "wtf are we doing" threads crop up. It's the same thread over and over. They just cause drama. This community is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too focused on what we're not (and it always has been), instead of what we are, and how great that is. Stop worrying about it so much. Stop trying to force it. Just let it happen. Do you really think we're going to get to Stage 4 by running around screaming, "Are we Stage 4 yet? What? Why not? Stage 3 sucks! I hate this! When are we going to be Stage 4? AND WHAT ABOUT STAGE 5? GOD THIS IS TAKING FOREVER!" I promise you, it's not. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's moving us backwards. >.> k /rant Nothing can happen till the basics are done. it's futile and meaningless to bail the water out of a boat that is completely submerged till the holes are plugged. We need our identity resolved ASAP. "WE" don't exist till we know what "we" means.nn we had one when Dan was around. and we never patched it when d3po started. Constructive critisism can progress us i'm sorry you didn't see it that way. There are going to be more and more of these till we exist
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Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 22, 2010 0:03:34 GMT -5
If you were really paying attention while listening to that lovely book, you'd have heard that punishment is hardly a part of advancing stages. It's either you abide by our values or you don't; if you don't, you'll end up leaving anyway. Where do we see the most punishment? Do you remember discussion of Stage 1 and the examples? Yeah, prison. Yes that is a stage 1 idea but also a stage 2 and 3 idea We need to recognize that it's there and resolve the need for it before we can continue. Many of us that were attracted by the values are seeing that the "they will go away anyway" isn't working if we believed in the values Skype chat wouldn't be what it is And the push for a noble cause has not at all evaporated. I took the month of November off of that to figure out how to next approach it. Also, the turnout was almost always very poor for discussion... so I don't know why you seem to think people are bugging out about it. They are NOT bugging out about it and that's the point. Feedback is the lifeblood of ideas. I know i'm being harsh but, if all my ranting does, is remind people that we are ALL responsible for how this place turns out. Then it's a success. Also, I like everything Bree said. You heard me. that's defiantly one for the record books
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 22, 2010 0:12:02 GMT -5
bree is awesome and uhh what she said... you is just an angery person...
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Post by Rob on Nov 22, 2010 0:12:14 GMT -5
If you were really paying attention while listening to that lovely book, you'd have heard that punishment is hardly a part of advancing stages. It's either you abide by our values or you don't; if you don't, you'll end up leaving anyway. Where do we see the most punishment? Do you remember discussion of Stage 1 and the examples? Yeah, prison. Yes that is a stage 1 idea but also a stage 2 and 3 idea We need to recognize that it's there and resolve the need for it before we can continue. Many of us that were attracted by the values are seeing that the "they will go away anyway" isn't working if we believed in the values Skype chat wouldn't be what it is They are NOT bugging out about it and that's the point. Feedback is the lifeblood of ideas. I know i'm being harsh but, if all my ranting does, is remind people that we are ALL responsible for how this place turns out. Then it's a success. Also, I like everything Bree said. You heard me. that's defiantly one for the record books I don't understand why you think punishment is necessary. There's nobody around here blatantly and purposefully violating our values. And your tone/mannerisms have not been the best for "reminding" people that we're all in this together. What you did was make it look like you were joining the complaint brigade and getting ready to jump ship anyway. Oh, and as far as the Skype chat goes... what are you talking about? I love that chat. Most people have a good time. It's just for fun. What's the problem?
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 22, 2010 0:18:42 GMT -5
skwiggs is an angery old man
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Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 22, 2010 1:26:27 GMT -5
I'm glad I used the word punishment here, since it was meant to get a reaction. The idea is that we are getting worse. As you can see in the video Dan was Clear about the value of values Angry? heck yea i'm angry. Calling members dumb and stupid doesn't fit Anywhere in what we supposedly believe and rips us apart you should be angry also if any of these values mean anything to you. We, the PogoTribe, will...
1. Use our awesomeness for good.
2. Embrace our "inner weird".
3. Have fun.
4. Think impossibly big.
5. Grow out.
6. Grow strong.
7. Stand by what we know to be true.
8. Accept that we don't know everything.
9. Welcome ALL who stand by these values.
And how many people have noticed that the pogopedia link doesn't work any more?
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Nov 22, 2010 1:30:38 GMT -5
Bree you don't need to go overboard. He never said anything to make it seem like he was fed up. You're the only one saying this. He didn't use caps, and he certainly didn't say anything along those lines. People aren't acting like that, maybe they used to when this place was younger but not at all anymore. So it would help if you wouldn't act like they were.
We can move closer to a Stage 4 tribe if every time we're talking with each other in serious threads we act more rational and friendly.
And punishment is not what advances a tribe. If people are forced into these stages it's because they don't understand them, thus you don't have a true stage 4 or 5 tribe. People need to learn how to act in a stage 4/5 manner, and I think the only way to learn is through real life experience -- in other words, projects. I hope the Noble Cause will help the tribe move in the right direction.
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 22, 2010 3:11:17 GMT -5
three things...
first the wiki and the old forums are down due to dan until the domain is reregistered so yeah...
if this is directed towards the chat then you must realize that the chat and the forum are different outlets and while yes the chat is part of us it is meant as a less formal and much less dignified form of comunication.. in a way you could say we are just sniffing each others rumps as the primitive apes do when they are bored.. the final thing is that we are a growing community that in truth is not sure where it will end up but at thew same time most of the members lifes are at this same pivitol stage...
i know you are older than us skwiggs but you should still remember a time when you had no direction.. that is the same time most of the members and the forum its self are in..
so why yes we seem to be going nowhere is that no different from whats going on in my life or more than half our members between the ages of 14 and 21... this naturaly will pass as we mature both as a community and as our selves...
so be patient mister grumpy pants...
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Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 22, 2010 4:16:54 GMT -5
That "be patient" comment made me chuckle quite heartily. Yes i remember what it was like having no direction, in fact.. what got me out of it was an older friend that cared enough to keep pushing, and give the hard reality check every now and then (and i do mean hard.*rubs the back of his head remembering a few knocks*). If i have to be that for SPOTM I will.
Now a quick thing just to show where I stand on all this. Most of you are in the age of empowerment, right before or right after you start getting your freedoms. This is a magical window of time. A time where the rest of your life starts getting planned out (whether you mean to or not) Who you are, starts in this window, and it make me sad to see such bright people promoting hate and prejudices of all stripes. I'm not free of those ideas either but these Values, this community, these projects can make insane changes. Changes you may never notice, but are of the most value.. Changes to yourself
So I'm simply asking "what are we" , "what do we want to be" , and "what are we doing" because it matters.
"We must be the change we wish to see" -Ghandi
[/afterschool special]
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 22, 2010 4:27:50 GMT -5
^^ could you not have said that earlier... at this point i dont have all the answers or any of them but i have faith that i will soon find who i want to be and what i want to do very soon.. (this being said by someone who claims to have no faith)
as your question stands at this point i will say this.. i dont know but i hope for it to be epic...
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Post by Breepop on Nov 22, 2010 10:01:25 GMT -5
Angry? heck yea i'm angry. Calling members dumb and stupid doesn't fit Anywhere in what we supposedly believe and rips us apart you should be angry also if any of these values mean anything to you. Where did anyone call anyone else dumb/stupid? I must be missing something. k, just because you read a book doesn't mean you should run around here acting like you know it all and exactly how we shout act and exactly how the values should be interpreted and exactly how serious we should be following the values. Clam dwon. And how many people have noticed that the pogopedia link doesn't work any more? Everyone besides you, I think. XD There's been at least three threads made about it in the past few days, and the concern been answered in every single one. Dan's credit card info was stolen so he is unable to renew the domain right now. He's working on it. Bree you don't need to go overboard. He never said anything to make it seem like he was fed up. Haha, yeah he did! He's freaking out; clearly angry and upset. Read his posts. You're the only one saying this. He didn't use caps, and he certainly didn't say anything along those lines. People aren't acting like that, maybe they used to when this place was younger but not at all anymore. So it would help if you wouldn't act like they were. We can move closer to a Stage 4 tribe if every time we're talking with each other in serious threads we act more rational and friendly. ...I wasn't talking about just Skwiggs. I was talking about everyone who has ever made these threads (and trust me, this same exact thread has been made 100 times over). I was making a point. I exaggerated a little (... a little ;P). People are still acting like that. There was a thread just like this a few weeks ago. Now there's this one. I'm not going to hide my annoyance with these sorts of threads, that focus so much on what we're NOT, and what people think we SHOULD be, and just go around bashing what we are, like it's the most terrible thing ever. It's gotten stale, and I can't continue to pretend I think they help the community. I know they don't. So I'm simply asking "what are we" , "what do we want to be" , and "what are we doing" because it matters. Those are all fine questions. In fact, I welcome them. They're great. But that's not the way you started the thread. It sounded more like "WTF, we suck. This place is so lame, what's the point of even being here?" Instead of asking those questions in a thought-provoking, caring way, you berated the community and degraded the steps it has taken so far. I don't like that. If you wanna help, that's cool. But take your angry pants off and you'll find you get a much nicer reaction.
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Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 22, 2010 17:59:12 GMT -5
Haha, yeah he did! He's freaking out; clearly angry and upset. Read his posts. the comment you were reacting to wasn't in anger. Yes I got angry later because I chose the wrong words to get the point out (which I was made very aware by your reaction Bree, so thank you) ...I wasn't talking about just Skwiggs. I was talking about everyone who has ever made these threads (and trust me, this same exact thread has been made 100 times over). I was making a point. I exaggerated a little (... a little ;P). People are still acting like that. There was a thread just like this a few weeks ago. Now there's this one. I'm not going to hide my annoyance with these sorts of threads, that focus so much on what we're NOT, and what people think we SHOULD be, and just go around bashing what we are, like it's the most terrible thing ever. It's gotten stale, and I can't continue to pretend I think they help the community. I know they don't. The types of threads your talking about won't ever go away. Instead take them for what they are. An inelegant way of asking for Feedback and a status report. Good can be taken from anything. Just depends on how you choose to look at it k, just because you read a book doesn't mean you should run around here acting like you know it all and exactly how we shout act and exactly how the values should be interpreted and exactly how serious we should be following the values. Clam dwon. I don't believe i know it all. but i do believe that finding the next step is the only way to go anywhere. You have a point about interpretation. Calling people names and being racist must be under Value #3 Have fun. I pull back the accusation that it isn't in the values and I apologize... I wouldn't have started this thread had i known that. I was making assumptions about skype chat and the forum and i see my error. Skype chat is safe again, this dinosaur will stay off of it This isn't sarcasm I truly misinterpreted it and I'm sorry
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Post by krzych32 on Nov 22, 2010 19:48:14 GMT -5
We are Nazis! .......right?
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 22, 2010 22:45:46 GMT -5
skwiggs you dont have to stay out of the chat just realize we are mostly dumb kids and like to insult each other and so take all of the things said with a smile...
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Skwiggs
Moon
[AWD:1902181c]
Look Deeper.
Posts: 201
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Post by Skwiggs on Nov 23, 2010 11:46:47 GMT -5
Well i found myself at conflict between my beliefs of freedom of speech, and the pursuit of a better world. Until i can reconcile that I'd just be throwing damp towels on the fire of creativity.
I'm not going anywhere. i just need to figure a few things out.
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Post by Rogers91 on Nov 26, 2010 2:40:58 GMT -5
feel free to throw your damp towels even if they are makeing the fire weak us less damp will dump lighter fluid on the smoulders and kick things right back up...
note: do not dump lighter fluid on smoulders...
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