Specific Religions

[Dom]

Ok, now before I begin, I just want to say.. please understand I am not trying to insult your religion, I am just saying what been on my mind for a few months now. I understand its a long read, if you don't want to read it all, read at least the 1st and last paragraphs.

My thoughts have been wondering.. why do people still acknowledge holy books such as the bible (new and old testament) or Qur'an as anything other than a collection of fantastic stories, or a guide to basic morality written by people with good intentions? Christians, Jews, and Muslims all seem to be too caught up with interpreting the bible and using it as a solid basis for their religion.

I really don't understand that, don't people think, if it was written 4000-1300 years ago by people nearly illiterate and unintelligent (by today's standards) it just might not be something worth following? Don't get me wrong I was born a catholic, am attending a catholic high school, and for the majority of my life believed everything the catholic church says is 100% correct.

I'll use the bible as an example, because I know it better than the Qur'an. People like you and me can make mistakes, if they didn't make mistakes writing it, we certainly can make mistakes interpreting it. Haven't these holy books been translated fom varous languages? (I think the Qur'an remains in its written language actually)

Going to a catholic school, they teach us to believe God "inspired" the writings in the bible, and to not take anything literally in it. but the catechism of the catholic church (which has all the beliefs and sides of issues the Catholic church takes) is based off how we interpret the bible....

I personally believe in God, but I can't identify with any religion. Every religion seems to try and stress its point, and lets not forget the golden rule they all teach "Do unto others, as you would yourself", but they wage war on each other, forbid interracial or inter religious marriages, and discriminate against people (gays, people not of the same faith) that many stories and basic doctrines say we should love as our neighbor.

If religions are truly about the people, they should accept everyone. Re-evalute their traditions and customs, as well as their source of knowledge.

Also I know people are going to use th excuse of "faith". I'm not saying we need tangible evidence to believe in God, but I don't using one word to silence all questioning and skepticisms should be tolerated. I have faith, but it can only work to a point, and in order for it to work I have to have an idea of something to be faithful in. The bible itsself has outlived it's shelf life, as humans we could write our own bible with our own teachings, beliefs, morals, and songs.. and it would probably be as much of a proof of God, or his demands as the original.

I know I probably jumped around a lot in my arguments there, but please.. your opinions?

[Johncoyne]

I'm a Catholic. I attended Catholic School for 7 years of my life. I also think the Bible may be irrelevant, but really: Do we have anything else to follow? Word of Mouth isn't a very efficient way of keeping a religion. That's my take on it. Although it may not be the best source, it's the only thing we have.

[Dom]

I see your point. Having something, no matter how poor in construct it is, is better than nothing. I do agree. However, every religion under the sun has their own holy book. One could not say they are all correct, because many would deeply contradict each other. However, which would be the correct one? Assuming one was correct. you, or I might be inclined to say the bible, because we were/are raised in it, but we really don't have any more grounds over a Hindu who argues his Upanishads is the correct doctrine. Then we argue, "but we have faith." Then the Hindu replies "So do I." And it becomes a stalemate.

I had this analogy in my head to use about 7 nations with 7 different colored marbles and the one with the yellow one was the superior nation... but I can't remember how I worded it in my head to get it to work.

[swan]

I think the bible is still relevant in the sense that it tries to answer questions concerning life (ie the meaning of life, how to live, etc.) and those questions will never be irrelevant, the answers may become outdated but they will always expose the reader to the questions themselves. Whether the answers are "right" or "wrong" isn't that important because as you pointed out there are many legitimate answers that will often contradict one another.

What is important is finding the answers that speak to the individual, not humanity as a whole. Naturally people are gonna think different things and find different things to believe in, so what's important is finding what you believe in, what makes sense and what feels right to you, whether it be a specific set of values/morals, a personal definition of success or simply the direction you want to travel in life. The bible, and other religious doctrines for that matter, provide answers but answers can come from anywhere, like religion, philosophy, personal reflection, or even movies and tv. So the answers given by the bible may be irrelevant, but the questions it tries to answer will never be.

[Dom]

Mar 21, 2010 22:45:12 GMT -5 @swan said:

I think the bible is still relevant in the sense that it tries to answer questions concerning life (ie the meaning of life, how to live, etc.) and those questions will never be irrelevant, the answers may become outdated but they will always expose the reader to the questions themselves. Whether the answers are "right" or "wrong" isn't that important because as you pointed out there are many legitimate answers that will often contradict one another.

What is important is finding the answers that speak to the individual, not humanity as a whole. Naturally people are gonna think different things and find different things to believe in, so what's important is finding what you believe in, what makes sense and what feels right to you, whether it be a specific set of values/morals, a personal definition of success or simply the direction you want to travel in life. The bible, and other religious doctrines for that matter, provide answers but answers can come from anywhere, like religion, philosophy, personal reflection, or even movies and tv. So the answers given by the bible may be irrelevant, but the questions it tries to answer will never be.

I absolutely see what you are getting at, and I totally agree. Its funny you mention what feels right to "you". The other day I was talking with my atheist friend, whom I greatly respect because he has, through internal reflection and inward contemplation found that he does not believe there is a God. However during our conversation I mentioned how there are many atheists I can't give as great a degree of respect to, because they simply jumped on the bandwagon, without really thinking things through. Of course everyone is entitled to what they believe, but if you believe something you should at least do it for your own sake, and not to follow a crowd.

Anyway he made the point to counter mine, explaining many religious people are the same, in that they let others tell them what they need to go to heaven, and choose to be ignorant to their own beliefs, and let others decide for them. This is sort of my original point to the thread, just shed in a different light.

Anyways, thanks for sharing and bringing up the great point about the only important thing being what the individual believes in.

I had a good discussion with the philosophy teacher at my school about this, he said something almost identical to what you said.

[Camoon]

Why don't we construct our own bible, our own collections of stories, which teach the things we believe now. This will be more updated than the bible, so it won't have the beliefs of 3000 year old men/women, but instead the beliefs of under 100 year old men/women.

We'll call it:

The RELIABIBLE (Cos it's more reliable then your average bible? xD)

[Johncoyne]

If we replaced the Bible, it wouldn't be the Bible. It's that simple. It would be like replacing the Constitution. And by replacing the Bible, we would technically form our own religion.

EDIT: Oops, I just saw that you're from England. The Constitution is what the American government is all about.

[Nakor]

@camoon Lee: But that happens. A lot of people write a lot of stories with a lot of morals to them. They simply aren't advertised as religious texts. There's no need to call a story with a moral religious, there's merely a need to have people read more of those.

And keeping in mind I'm an atheist as I say this -- I don't think there's a particular need to toss away the bible. Many other books from the last two millennia are of great reading value even today. While a lot of the bible is purely religious in nature (the vast majority of the old testament give-or-take) a lot of it is just moral teachings that can apply equally to the religious and non-religious (many of Jesus's parables).

It simply needs to be read with an objective view, and the reader must keep in mind the differences between then and now so they can discard those bits that are no longer meaningful (anything about slavery, women as possessions, homophobia and so forth). It is sometimes hard for the religious to do of course (or at least for those within the sects of Christianity that devoutly follow the word of the bible) but if you think of it from a neutral perspective it's reasonable. (In this sense it's more like treating Christianity as a cultural background than as a religion, and the history of it and its ethics comes with both good, which we should strive to follow and even improve on, and bad, which we should correct and learn from.)

[llluminati]

The fact of the matter is that religious texts are meant to be interpreted figuratively instead of literally. By all means, it's a wonderful teaching tool, however, more often than not, it is sadly misinterpreted. I am a vehement atheist, but I can easily say that reading religious texts is very enlightening. The main themes and morals behind it are enduring but the ancient decrees and laws should be disregarded altogether. If all religions are capable of doing this, much of the rampant discrimination due to misinterpretation would be abolished.