Kardashev
Meteorite
GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY!!!!!! I LOST THE GAME! P.S. HaHa
Posts: 19
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Post by Kardashev on Jan 21, 2011 21:34:07 GMT -5
The Kardashev Scale, most know what it is, its a scale made by a Russian Scientist named Nikolai Kardashev, it shows the power a civilization wields by the amount of energy they have control over, there's three types. Type 1 - A type 1 civilization would have control over all the renewable energy that their home planet produces, such as thermal. This civilization would colonize cities on oceans, control weather, and basically be invincible against planetary hazards, such as earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. Type 2 - A type 2 civilization would have total control of all the resources and energy in there solar system, meaning all the colonizing all planets, and using as much of the suns energy possible and still sustaining life on other planets. This could be done by using what some scientist theorize would be a Dyson Sphere, a cluster of satellites almost completely covering the atmosphere of the sun. This civilization would possibly have use of near or faster than light-speed technology, and would be invincible to all natural disasters other than the end of there Galaxy, or worse than. Type 3 - A type 3 civilization would have total control over the entire energy of their home Galaxy which means Dyson Spheres on all the stars in the Galaxy, harnessing the power of the super massive black hole believed to be at the center of most Galaxies, and mining the energy of Dark Matter/Energy, which makes up 73% of our universe. This civilization would start the research of 'Multi-verse' travel, and time travel. They would have colonized all planets in the Galaxy, and be indestructible to EVERYTHING other than the end of the there home universe. ... but that's not it, scientists have theorized a type 4, 5, and 6. Type 4 - A type 4 civilization would have complete control over all the energy in there Universe, and would start the colonization of other Universes. This civilization would theoretically be able to stop the end of the Universe. Type 5 - A type 5 civilization would have total control over infinite Universes and be completely and totally immortal, death would no longer be a concept in this civilization. This civilization has out grown all irrational thought, no longer wars among itself, can create Universes, and life. Type 6 - A type 6 civilization.... would be gods, they would be able to time travel without machines, stop time, speed up time, travel the 'Multi-verse', with there minds. They would be omnipresent, immortal, and have total control over the EXISTENCE OF EXISTENCE! The only problem is.... our government is spending all of our money, all of our resources, on war, with other HUMANS, scientists said that we would be having holidays on the moon by 2000, but war got in the way, if the conflict doesn't stop, if we don't join together as a planet, a Alpha City, until we join together Type 1 will be impossible to achieve, its not just the governments fault, terrorists don't want this either, a prosperous global civilization where everyone is equal, everyone speaks one language, and everyone is one the same page intelligence wise (I'm not saying no one will be smarter than others, just that China's math course at grade 3 and America's at grade 3 will be the same.) Let's join together and colonize our moon, and every other planet, moon, and Asteroid in our Existence. Post your thoughts or any questions you have I will do my best to answer them.  |
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Post by krzych32 on Jan 22, 2011 2:39:47 GMT -5
The Kardashev Scale, most know what it is, its a scale made by a Russian Scientist named Nikolai Kardashev, it shows the power a civilization wields by the amount of energy they have control over, there's three types. Type 1 - A type 1 civilization would have control over all the renewable energy that their home planet produces, such as thermal. This civilization would colonize cities on oceans, control weather, and basically be invincible against planetary hazards, such as earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. Type 2 - A type 2 civilization would have total control of all the resources and energy in there solar system, meaning all the colonizing all planets, and using as much of the suns energy possible and still sustaining life on other planets. This could be done by using what some scientist theorize would be a Dyson Sphere, a cluster of satellites almost completely covering the atmosphere of the sun. This civilization would possibly have use of near or faster than light-speed technology, and would be invincible to all natural disasters other than the end of there Galaxy, or worse than. Type 3 - A type 3 civilization would have total control over the entire energy of their home Galaxy which means Dyson Spheres on all the stars in the Galaxy, harnessing the power of the super massive black hole believed to be at the center of most Galaxies, and mining the energy of Dark Matter/Energy, which makes up 73% of our universe. This civilization would start the research of 'Multi-verse' travel, and time travel. They would have colonized all planets in the Galaxy, and be indestructible to EVERYTHING other than the end of the there home universe. ... but that's not it, scientists have theorized a type 4, 5, and 6. Type 4 - A type 4 civilization would have complete control over all the energy in there Universe, and would start the colonization of other Universes. This civilization would theoretically be able to stop the end of the Universe. Type 5 - A type 5 civilization would have total control over infinite Universes and be completely and totally immortal, death would no longer be a concept in this civilization. This civilization has out grown all irrational thought, no longer wars among itself, can create Universes, and life. Type 6 - A type 6 civilization.... would be gods, they would be able to time travel without machines, stop time, speed up time, travel the 'Multi-verse', with there minds. They would be omnipresent, immortal, and have total control over the EXISTENCE OF EXISTENCE! The only problem is.... our government is spending all of our money, all of our resources, on war, with other HUMANS, scientists said that we would be having holidays on the moon by 2000, but war got in the way, if the conflict doesn't stop, if we don't join together as a planet, a Alpha City, until we join together Type 1 will be impossible to achieve, its not just the governments fault, terrorists don't want this either, a prosperous global civilization where everyone is equal, everyone speaks one language, and everyone is one the same page intelligence wise (I'm not saying no one will be smarter than others, just that China's math course at grade 3 and America's at grade 3 will be the same.) Let's join together and colonize our moon, and every other planet, moon, and Asteroid in our Existence. Post your thoughts or any questions you have I will do my best to answer them. Bro, you trollin in my hood? |
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Kardashev
Meteorite
GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY!!!!!! I LOST THE GAME! P.S. HaHa
Posts: 19
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Post by Kardashev on Jan 22, 2011 9:15:37 GMT -5
[/quote]Bro, you trollin in my hood?[/quote]
no, you offend me, i might kill you now 0.0
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Post by Ryan on Jan 22, 2011 10:32:54 GMT -5
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vichilux
Star
Hatsune Miku LALALALALA :D
Posts: 699
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Post by vichilux on Jan 22, 2011 18:13:23 GMT -5
... but that's not it, scientists have theorized a type 4, 5, and 6. Also, to me, humanity is pointless since we are all so stupid in one or another way... so yeah, we'll probably not even make it to type 1 in over nine thousend years... (in my opinion) OR there could be one person, with power over everything and everyone, who gets us to do all that... but I think they tried that before and it ended up in a war or something like that (you know what I'm talking about  ), so I don't think it'd work... [/irony] |
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Post by Ryan on Jan 22, 2011 23:33:07 GMT -5
... but that's not it, scientists have theorized a type 4, 5, and 6. No sources - not fact  Think about it this way - if the world unified and shared energy (i.e. level 1) the world would be socialist. EDIT: At least in part. |
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Kardashev
Meteorite
GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY!!!!!! I LOST THE GAME! P.S. HaHa
Posts: 19
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Post by Kardashev on Jan 24, 2011 15:20:29 GMT -5
No sources - not fact Think about it this way - if the world unified and shared energy (i.e. level 1) the world would be socialist. EDIT: At least in part. First, i said scientist THEORIZE a type 4 5 6, the original scale is only 3 types, and i guess it would be socialist in a way but probably a democratic socialism, and we would still have a lot of the same things politically. |
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Kardashev
Meteorite
GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY!!!!!! I LOST THE GAME! P.S. HaHa
Posts: 19
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Post by Kardashev on Jan 24, 2011 15:22:36 GMT -5
... but that's not it, scientists have theorized a type 4, 5, and 6. Also, to me, humanity is pointless since we are all so stupid in one or another way... so yeah, we'll probably not even make it to type 1 in over nine thousend years... (in my opinion) OR there could be one person, with power over everything and everyone, who gets us to do all that... but I think they tried that before and it ended up in a war or something like that (you know what I'm talking about ), so I don't think it'd work... [/irony] scientists think we could advance to type 1 in the next 100 years or so, and one person who has control over everything would be the anti christ, lets not let that happen |
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Post by Ryan on Jan 24, 2011 17:23:41 GMT -5
as soon as you throw religion into a scientific theory - it diminishes the value of the theory to null.
We could theoretically reach type 1 if our source of energy was different than our current source (perhaps stellar energy).
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Kardashev
Meteorite
GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY!!!!!! I LOST THE GAME! P.S. HaHa
Posts: 19
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Post by Kardashev on Feb 2, 2011 11:25:26 GMT -5
The use of geothermal energy and harnessing the energy of the geodynamo may be helpful.
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ryan
Moon
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Post by ryan on Feb 2, 2011 21:22:56 GMT -5
i predict type 2 civalization in year 6250
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 2, 2011 22:42:34 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure we're currently at an 0.5 Civiliazation.. We aren't at 1 yet..
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Post by Ryan on Feb 2, 2011 22:58:01 GMT -5
geothermal energy IS harnessing the energy of the geodynamo, and it's not enough - geothermal energy is not an efficient main spectrum energy industry. It would not bring us to a stage 1 society.
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 2, 2011 23:11:26 GMT -5
It would be impossible right now.. I can't even think of a Stage 2 world..
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Post by Ryan on Feb 3, 2011 9:31:45 GMT -5
EDIT: I erased my last post and will replace it with this one.
The Kardashev scale is an impossibility (not improbability). Even with global, systemic, galactic, and universal unity - it is impossible to harness all of the energy of a given structure. Capturing all of the available energy of the earth would require a structure than can extract geothermal energy from the earth's core. The earth's core is lead and iron, and it is in molten forms. No element we have on earth is capable of creating a structure that would not melt at these levels of heat, and therefore we could never even achieve Stage 1, namely because we can never use all of the earths energy.
Moving on to the solar system level. The only way to use all of the available energy of a star would be to completely enclose it using a dyson sphere or a similar megastructure. This megastructure would trap and store and then transport the energy of that star. It is a physical impossibility for any system to be 100% efficient, so a dyson sphere would lose some of the energy it is designed to trap. Even if it could, by trapping and storing and distributing ALL of the available energy of a star, it would have to trap, store, and distribute ALL of the light energy from that star. By doing this to a star you guarantee the death of all life in the solar system. Life CANNOT exist without light. We do not know what chemicals are required for life (due to NASA's experiment using arsenic instead of phosphorus in a biochemical system), but we do know that light is the driving force for 100% of the energy in ANY biosphere, including light-less biospheres. There are some biospheres in the bottom of the ocean in which no visibile light is present, but without light hitting the surface of the earth, these systems would not sustainably survive. (the oceans would quickly dissappear if not for the atmospheric pressure caused by water vapor in our atmosphere, water vapor being the product of evaporation of ocean water primarily). So Stage 2 is equally impossible as Stage 1.
The original purpose of the scale was to measure technological advancement of civilization. It COMPLETELY bases this advancement on how much energy it can extract from a system and also how much energy it uses. I think a better measure of technological advancement is how much energy it can extract from greater systems, and how EFFICIENTLY it can use them. Why use 104.5 GW of power if you could use 80GW and do the same amount of stuff?
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Post by Flags_Forever on Feb 3, 2011 13:03:07 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. I always thought such a scale shouldn't be based on energy consumption, anyway.
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Post by krzych32 on Feb 4, 2011 18:03:53 GMT -5
EDIT: I erased my last post and will replace it with this one. The Kardashev scale is an impossibility (not improbability). Even with global, systemic, galactic, and universal unity - it is impossible to harness all of the energy of a given structure. Capturing all of the available energy of the earth would require a structure than can extract geothermal energy from the earth's core. The earth's core is lead and iron, and it is in molten forms. No element we have on earth is capable of creating a structure that would not melt at these levels of heat, and therefore we could never even achieve Stage 1, namely because we can never use all of the earths energy. Moving on to the solar system level. The only way to use all of the available energy of a star would be to completely enclose it using a dyson sphere or a similar megastructure. This megastructure would trap and store and then transport the energy of that star. It is a physical impossibility for any system to be 100% efficient, so a dyson sphere would lose some of the energy it is designed to trap. Even if it could, by trapping and storing and distributing ALL of the available energy of a star, it would have to trap, store, and distribute ALL of the light energy from that star. By doing this to a star you guarantee the death of all life in the solar system. Life CANNOT exist without light. We do not know what chemicals are required for life (due to NASA's experiment using arsenic instead of phosphorus in a biochemical system), but we do know that light is the driving force for 100% of the energy in ANY biosphere, including light-less biospheres. There are some biospheres in the bottom of the ocean in which no visibile light is present, but without light hitting the surface of the earth, these systems would not sustainably survive. (the oceans would quickly dissappear if not for the atmospheric pressure caused by water vapor in our atmosphere, water vapor being the product of evaporation of ocean water primarily). So Stage 2 is equally impossible as Stage 1. The original purpose of the scale was to measure technological advancement of civilization. It COMPLETELY bases this advancement on how much energy it can extract from a system and also how much energy it uses. I think a better measure of technological advancement is how much energy it can extract from greater systems, and how EFFICIENTLY it can use them. Why use 104.5 GW of power if you could use 80GW and do the same amount of stuff? I think you are missing the point in the scale. No one said a civilization would HAVE TO COLLECT ALL OF IT. Why would one collect more then it is needed? That would just be counterproductive. |
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Post by Ryan on Feb 4, 2011 19:52:57 GMT -5
The scale is a consumption - not collection scale. The stage 1 society consumes as much energy as it can extract from the earth. The stage 2 society consumes the energy that the entire solar system provides.
EDIT: I will revise this past statement to say that it has ACCESS to all of this energy - which means that should energy demands reach that high, they would be capable of using that energy - which is an impossibility ( you can't use all of the suns energy because you need the natural dispersion of that energy to survive - you can't use all the earth's available energy for similar reasons)
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Kardashev
Meteorite
GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY!!!!!! I LOST THE GAME! P.S. HaHa
Posts: 19
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Post by Kardashev on Feb 6, 2011 21:17:44 GMT -5
Excellent point, answered a lot of my questions, but here's another, than why was the scale created, was Nikolai actually on to something was was he just a grown man with a child's imagination?
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Post by Ryan on Feb 6, 2011 22:11:55 GMT -5
It was a proposed scale during the cold war and nuclear arms race. It was the soviets (who were communist and a central power controlled all of their resources and labor) way of saying - hey this is a good track for humanity. Had the arms race continued - earth would have seen a similar fortune as is read in The Lorax by Dr. Seuss. Basically the scale is just part of an arms race empty threat - as were many theoretical scales and inventions that came about in that era.
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