|
Post by SwimFellow on May 18, 2011 20:10:57 GMT -5
So, three of my friends were recently discussing, the way that education works these days. We were all in the same 7th grade Math class, and just kind of remembering that class. Let's call them A and B.
A noted that he enjoyed math class. B noted that since computers can tell us how all of that stuff worked, the value of math class will eventually just become dust, and really was repulsed by the idea that math has to be behind every single thing that exists. Think about it. EVERYTHING is basically made by math. I, on one hand, agreed with A, because I am someone who sees that math is really pretty cool. However, on the other hand, B did have an interesting argument. Complex math can be fun, but it's really only annoying the way we did it in a math class. Also, if computers can do that complex math, why not?
A made a very good point, saying that if the instruments to complete a complex math problem were available in the most efficient (Achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense. Added the definition because the definition turned into an argument between A and B.) way possible. However, he also said that knowing the math is valuable, because while in the future, computers may be more involved with our lives, they can never know what we're thinking without us telling them.
B said that he agreed, but that a math class will be obsolete completely within that time period.
I inclined to agree with A.
B is a very good guitar player. Much of his free time is spent writing songs. So, since computers can do math more efficiently than a human, a computer could probably do stuff that no human, even the best guitar player in the world, could EVER IMAGINE doing.
A backed me up, saying that the great thing about humans is that nothing is perfect. We do have faults, which leads towards a "human" feel if you hear an acoustic guitar.
B thought that that was going a bit too far, and wanted to get back onto the math thing. It seemed that B really just didn't like Math class, and didn't feel he needed to know it.
I do think that classrooms need to be changed quite a bit, and in the case of Math, we can't just sit there and solve the same problem. Math teachers need to be more involved with the students, and I would link you to a Vi Hart video if I didn't think that you hadn't heard of her, or not able to find her on Google. Teachers should be much more like her. Creative.
What do you guys think? Do you agree with A or B, and is the education system valuable anymore?
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on May 18, 2011 21:55:31 GMT -5
First - never refer to difficult math as complex math. Complex math uses complex numbers - which I don't doubt you've never seen. Second - learning math is important. While computers can indeed do most math, if we humans could not do math then we wouldn't be able to program computers to do math. You necessarily need to know how to add numbers or integrate functions, but you need to know when and why you might have to do these things. You also need to know how to tell a computer to do these things when you want them done. I don't care if you never learn to add, especially if you never need to add numbers w/o a calculator. But if you need a calculator to add, you have to know - 1) why you're adding, 2) what you're adding, 3) how to tell the computer to add.
So math class is indeed important.
Your thread opened up a door to many other arguments, but you only posted one about math class so I will wait to describe the value of education until someone asks. (that way Asher doesn't tldr me)
|
|
|
Post by SwimFellow on May 19, 2011 15:13:30 GMT -5
1. Well, no.. I didn't mean "complex math" as in 7th Grade math. At the time, of course, it was difficult, but the argument went towards all math in general. And B really doesn't like COMPLEX math. Difficult math, I'm sure, he's not a fan of, but his argument was against learning COMPLEX and not DIFFICULT math. (Not saying that math with complex numbers can't be hard.) 2. I didn't mean for you to think about the value of MATH class, I meant for this to be a debate/discussion on the value of traditional education, and whether classrooms should change. 3. A better way to say "do not doubt you have never seen" is "I doubt you've ever seen." Bad assumption, my friend.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on May 19, 2011 16:18:16 GMT -5
Complex math deals with imaginary numbers. You are not exposed to a significant amount of this math before getting into a university in a math program. I was asking you to be careful on the distinction.
Anyways, my example for the math class can be applied to all classes.
It doesn't matter what subject, constant exposure to a subject teaches us how to apply the subject. That is the purpose of schooling. We can look up facts all the time, but without knowledge of how to apply facts we are as dumb as a book.
EDIT: Grammar note - "I wouldn't doubt you've never seen" means that I would not have been surprised in the least if you had not seen it, but I do not have enough reason to say "I doubt you've ever seen" which means that I have reason to believe that you've not seen. They are different, double negatives don't always cancel each other.
|
|
Quinn
Star
[AWD:191c07]
The eye of compromise.
Posts: 580
|
Post by Quinn on May 22, 2011 1:24:56 GMT -5
Education shouldn't be cramming the students minds with facts; it should be inspiring them, building their minds, unlocking potential... etc.
Why should schools waste billions of dollars each year cramming when the same information is available to all of the students online?
Society is FIRETRUCKED into thinking that we can't succeed in the world without an expensive piece of paper saying we were told a bunch of random crap...
|
|
Rush
Meteorite
Posts: 4
|
Post by Rush on Jun 13, 2011 15:44:16 GMT -5
Education shouldn't be cramming the students minds with facts; it should be inspiring them... I agree with you in that some educational institutes may be "cramming" too much information into the minds of students and not focusing on giving them new skills, but I would have thought that facts are the reason for inspiration within many people. Surely you would be inspired to slow down the process of global warming if you knew the fact that humans have increased the rate of global warming. The value of education has not, and will never, change. It's just that society has developed new ways of acquiring skills and knowledge, such as through home-based learning or online courses, but these are still considered to be forms of 'education'. Schooling, on the other hand, is a different story...
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Jun 13, 2011 16:00:47 GMT -5
Surely you would be inspired to slow down the process of global warming if you knew the fact that humans have increased the rate of global warming. That is a theory not a fact. We can't actually prove that "fact" of yours. (note that I'm not saying global warming isn't increasing at an alarming rate - just saying that our impact[while most certainly a big impact] may not be the main reason for the rate of increase).
|
|
Rush
Meteorite
Posts: 4
|
Post by Rush on Jun 13, 2011 17:01:06 GMT -5
That is a theory not a fact. We can't actually prove that "fact" of yours. Okay, that may have not been the best example (I could not think of anything else because I have been inadequately educated), but my point is that if a student was not aware of the fact that global warming can have devastating effects on the environment, would they even care about global warming? Will they just continue to be ignorant?
|
|
FranticProdigy
Planet
[AWD:1c]
Im classy because I use words like touch
Posts: 312
|
Post by FranticProdigy on Jun 23, 2011 2:21:31 GMT -5
i hate maff. =] ;D ;D
|
|
Xanast
Star
Just keep staring...
Posts: 598
|
Post by Xanast on Jun 23, 2011 9:06:43 GMT -5
People in my class don't appreciate their education. Most of them think they get by in life by being "popular" by doing drugs, cause that's big bonus points where I live. I absolutely agree with A. But my school's education system is not valuable anymore. My new 8TH FRIGGIN GRADE schedule now has a period called "snack" alternating with a period called "counseling" where they'll be telling us not to use hurt words every day. Also, my school has this stupid thing called essential tasks. They are normal things like homeworks and tests that you have to do or go to summer school, but also, you can do JUST the "Essential Tasks" and pass the year with a 70-75 average! How friggin dumb is that?1
|
|
|
Post by bombmaniac on Jun 23, 2011 10:30:20 GMT -5
i iznt ejewkated and i no murrican good.
Seriously though, while there are flaws in the educational system, we must accept flaws. It's a very large and complicated system with many components, it's never going to be perfect. As for the value of ACTUAL education, I disagree with the American educational system when it comes to colleges and universities. Why the hell should I be required to sin in Liberal Arts classes if all I want to do with my life is study the English Language? Why must public speaking be a required course? Why must I take philosophy if I want to be an artist? Why can i not just take the courses pertaining to my profession of choice?
That, by the way, is what is keeping me out of college. I refuse to spend two years taking bullshit I don't care about. Assuming I would go college I would probably go for English. Why should I have to take math? There is no question I would fail it, and that would affect my future in English because my GPA would be lowered. Is that fair? Hardly.
All that being said, I would say that I received an above average education in high school. I would also say that I know more about history, English, and philosophy than the average college student. Why? Because I decided to learn it on my own. Those subjects interested me, and those are the subjects at which I excel. Wouldn't it be smarter to just let students decide what they want to do with their lives? I understand the need for some kind of standardized process, but that standardized process can do with some customization. They should be tailored to specific professions rather than broad, general categories in which a student must find and carve out his or her own niche. If a student wants to pursue a degree in art, why bog that student down with other, extraneous courses such as philosophy?
The standard argument against what I just said is something along the lines of "oh but those courses are important for life." Give me a break. It's not high school. The principal can stop looking out for the student's "own good." Let the student decide what his "own good" is for a change. Its the student's life, not the school administrator's.
|
|
|
Post by SwimFellow on Jun 23, 2011 11:38:53 GMT -5
No, I'm not in 7th, I was.. Talking about 7th. But lulz, that's cool. I think there are too many flaws in the education system. It's still built so that after a big war, all the kids could be educated to work in factories. And that's not the US's main goal.. Today anyway..
|
|
Xanast
Star
Just keep staring...
Posts: 598
|
Post by Xanast on Jun 25, 2011 7:34:38 GMT -5
Yep, not anymore! Now 7/8th's of our janitors and lunch ladies are alumni. That's kinda sad. Nobody escapes the black hole that is Worcester. No one.
|
|