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Post by alwaysthinking on Mar 30, 2010 22:08:41 GMT -5
A lot of times, people always bring up how no one knows what happens when you die. People bring up heaven and hell a lot. Why would someone ever take any of these seriously? Even with faith, it becomes contradiction.
The only reason we are able to perceive anything is because of our brain, which controls our sensory receptors that allows to see, hear, touch, smell and taste things. We know that this is what allows us to do so. We also know that when we die, our brain can no longer perform functions, it dies along with us. Our brain is what allows us to do this. So why would anyone possibly think that when we die, all this gets magically carried over to a place that has never been discovered in a way that is conceptually impossible. I understand that okay, sure "You don't know what happens because you've never died and no one can truly know". Sure, but that doesn't mean I'd be dumb enough to take something so irrational into consideration. There would be no point in heaven even if it were real. If god was so powerful, why wouldn't he just make everyone great? And if he were so powerful, why wouldn't he give us a reason to believe in him? Make it evident in some way that he exists and that we should worship him? Why would he make it so that in order to get into heaven, you must have a complete blind faith in something based on no fact. What if you're in a place where you would get killed to be a Christian? Are you just doomed for hell from the start?
Also, how bad could hell possibly be? After all of eternity, you would get used to torture and it would be pointless.
Thoughts?
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Post by Lex on Mar 31, 2010 11:31:20 GMT -5
If something has a beginning, it must have an end. You are born and life begins, therefore there can be no eternal afterlife.
Logically, one would assume that reincarnation is more logically sound than the idea of heaven or hell, as it is a cycle.
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Post by alwaysthinking on Mar 31, 2010 14:58:19 GMT -5
I don't see how reincarnation is really anything. What's the difference if we don't know it? The thing about reincarnation, if it were true, we wouldn't have an increasing population.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 31, 2010 15:33:40 GMT -5
I'm gonna take a crack at blowing people's minds. This is purely philosophical now, and has no real basis in reality, but play with me for a second. Suppose for a moment that the brain is, in fact, the source of the human 'spirit' -- not a soul. Suppose for a moment that due to the vastness of the universe (or multi-verse if you please) a creature with exactly your brain pattern emerges elsewhere. While the experiences of that other person would be different, could that person still be 'you'? For example, if 2000 years after I die someone with my identical DNA and brain-patterns shows up again (highly unlikely, which is why I ask you just to play along), would that person be another me going through a different life another time? Since theoretically if I had, in fact, been that person, I would will have gone through life the same way they will will have (guh, time travel tenses), is it in fact a 'new me'? What if two me(s) existed at the same time. In a backward sort of way, could that be called reincarnation?  |
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Post by alwaysthinking on Mar 31, 2010 16:08:41 GMT -5
I'm gonna take a crack at blowing people's minds. This is purely philosophical now, and has no real basis in reality, but play with me for a second. Suppose for a moment that the brain is, in fact, the source of the human 'spirit' -- not a soul. Suppose for a moment that due to the vastness of the universe (or multi-verse if you please) a creature with exactly your brain pattern emerges elsewhere. While the experiences of that other person would be different, could that person still be 'you'? For example, if 2000 years after I die someone with my identical DNA and brain-patterns shows up again (highly unlikely, which is why I ask you just to play along), would that person be another me going through a different life another time? Since theoretically if I had, in fact, been that person, I would will have gone through life the same way they will will have (guh, time travel tenses), is it in fact a 'new me'? What if two me(s) existed at the same time. In a backward sort of way, could that be called reincarnation? If a creature with exactly my brain pattern were to exist, we would be identical, like organisms that produce via asexual reproduction. Copies of each other. If we cloned ourselves, that person would have identical DNA and the same brain pattern, but would in fact be a different organism even if they're the same. It wouldn't be reincarnation if you guys were both alive because reincarnation is what happens after you die. |
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 31, 2010 17:38:15 GMT -5
Which is why I said in a backward sort of way. It's not truly reincarnation, but at the same time you do have a second life... kind of. Or do you?
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Post by alwaysthinking on Mar 31, 2010 17:41:34 GMT -5
No you don't, even if you share brain patterns, you don't have the same thought cycle.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 31, 2010 17:43:44 GMT -5
Indeed, but that's due to our surroundings is it not? If the actual you had been born in place of the other 'you' you would turn out just like 'you' would. Wouldn't you?
Ow, my brain meats.
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Post by alwaysthinking on Mar 31, 2010 17:57:32 GMT -5
Well yeah. Our surrounding are part of what makes us, us. Adaptations play a huge factor. Do you think you would be the same person if we were born 1000 years ago? It doesn't connect two thought patterns from 2 different people though. Even if they are the same.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 31, 2010 18:02:48 GMT -5
Having died, I have not seen the afterlife, therefore I believe it does not exist.
However, if a brain is capable of producing every thought, feeling, sensory projection and everything of said nature, then the brain is also capable to be completely copied in which case ALL thought patterns, brain patterns, growth patterns, and all forms of sensory perception would be identical, which means that two of the exact same person could exist hypothetically.
Another thing to possibly blow peoples minds, what if the brain only works the way it does because of a soul? In that case the soul could be held responsible for all of the brain activity, and the brain is just sort of a translator between physical reality, and the metaphysical soul.
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Celeste
Meteor
Music Is My Life
Posts: 56
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Post by Celeste on Mar 31, 2010 18:07:29 GMT -5
Personly i belive is spirits and basicaly "Hell" is a feeling of humanity for eternity. "Heaven" being a happy good feeling for eternity.
And if any religous people are reading this, If god loves you then why would he sent you to eturnal unhappyness . . . . .
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Philosoraptor
Moon
dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
Posts: 145
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Post by Philosoraptor on Mar 31, 2010 19:29:51 GMT -5
As a person who spends most of his life being human, I take offense to this. ):
Humanity is pretty great ): Maybe you're just not doing it right.
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Post by Joey on Apr 1, 2010 15:03:05 GMT -5
And if any religous people are reading this, If god loves you then why would he sent you to eturnal unhappyness . . . . . Because there needs to be a place for people that choose not to be with him. |
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TsukikoSuoh
Meteor
Slytherin. And proud of it.
Posts: 50
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Post by TsukikoSuoh on Apr 1, 2010 16:41:08 GMT -5
I believe in reincarnation for a couple insane reasons, but that's besides the point; but I also believe in heaven and hell.
You see, I think that throughout the thousands upon thousands of years that the Earth has been around there IS a set number of souls but those souls are NOT just for humans. I think that the reincarnation is not just for the human race, but for every sentient being on our planet.
Heaven and Hell would be for the past lives, the memories of those past lives forming their entity and they would go to the Otherworld to become Angels or Demons based on their actions in that particular life or their own personal choice. This way there is a reason that people cannot remember their past lives AND the Bible is not complete fiction.
I think this makes sense because the human population of the world IS growing as the animal population of the world IS shrinking for lack of environment, lack of resources, or even just that they're not able to adapt to our ever changing planet.
PDBAZ!
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Wolfdude
Meteor
Hug me if you meet me ^^
Posts: 87
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Post by Wolfdude on Apr 1, 2010 16:49:46 GMT -5
TsukikoSuoh, geniuses think alike its said. So we must be realy smart.
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TsukikoSuoh
Meteor
Slytherin. And proud of it.
Posts: 50
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Post by TsukikoSuoh on Apr 1, 2010 16:58:50 GMT -5
Wolfdude, I suppose we must be. =]
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Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Apr 1, 2010 17:39:49 GMT -5
I don't really think there is anything like an "afterlife", but I believe (note the difference between thinking or knowing something is someway and believing someting is someway) there is reincarnation, it just sounds more logical...somehow...
The reason I don't think there is a heaven is because it seems to me that it would be a dystopic place, and, ergo, not really a heaven. Or maybe just a place that is just a little better than our Earth. I think that in order to maintain eternal happiness in heaven God (or what/whoever) would have to control our minds or limit our actions. If people still have feelings in heaven they would still feel anger towards people, or maybe jealousy towards some person that "stole" the love of their afterlives (ha, see what I did there?...), and then pain would arise, or maybe humans would behave, well, humanly, and cause other people to suffer somehow, and what would God make then, send them to hell? control their mind? make them dissapear and erease everyone's memories about them? I don't know about you but for me heaven seems like a really scary place. But again, there's that other possibility that heaven is just like Earth just without all the diseases and natural disasters... that wouldn't be half bad...
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Post by stephen5000 on Apr 1, 2010 18:26:16 GMT -5
Well, after we die (and even before) the matter and energy gets transformed into other forms, so we live on in that way. As to life, well in the grand scheme of things, whats so special about life anyways?
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Post by Ryan on Apr 1, 2010 21:49:38 GMT -5
TsukikoSuoh & Wolfdude - I do not doubt you are smart: but the phrase does go - "great minds think alike, but fools rarely differ"
(sorry for the interjection)
I'll agree with stephen5000 here - what is so special about life? The universe doesn't really need us. If you look at all of the matter in the universe it only makes up about 3% of the universe. If every solar system in every galaxy had a planet like ours that had life, that would be almost .000000000000000000001% of the universal mass that was a planet that supported life. And if you looked at the mass of life on each planet, thats only about .03% of the mass that makes up life...so when it boils down to it, life only makes up 9E-29% of the universe.
Granted that probably puts more value in the fact that we have life, but obviously it's not necessary in the universe.
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tac
Meteorite
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Post by tac on Apr 2, 2010 4:52:42 GMT -5
Your all assuming on certain ideals of afterlife. Let us realise that life isnt always sentient, look at tree's they breath, they get energy and they expel energy. They are very much alive and yet there is no evidence they think, or they are sentient.
Look at sunflowers, they position there flower towards the sun throughout the day to maximise energy intake, this doesnt nessescarily indicate sentience but it does lead us to believe that the flower knows that it can get the most amount of sun when its flowers are in full view of the rays.
Now understanding life exists in different states to what you know then what makes it so hard to believe that you can continue a state of life after your body shuts down. Its easy to say "Well your brain stops working and your body shuts down" but your body is run on electrical impulses, all thought you experiance is the result of a negetive charge and positive charge trying to maintain balance. This may be quite ignorant to say but if thought is as simple as a positive charge trying to even itself out with a negetive charge than is it not outragous to say that infinite amount charges constantly swirling around and within every living, non living, sentient and non sentient life alike could not be a state of after-life in itself?
An afterlife is to heaven as a UFO is to aliens.
Its a word to describe something. Wheras it is used to describe something else.
After-life.
What happends After life. Thats what afterlife is.
Finally, this is proberly all jumbled and hard to understand and I apologise if I come off ignorant or confusing.
Just understand that energy is passed through the enviroment constantly, everything that exists is simple energy configured a certain way. So take from that what you want.
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