Post by Silverrida on Apr 3, 2010 0:14:02 GMT -5
This actually relates very much to someone else's "Why Time is Infinite" thread and expands on it with a non-conventional definition of God.
Okay, I'll show a proof of why I believe this, but first I'd like to define some things.
When I say God in the OP, I am using one of the philosophical views of God. This view is that God is the first "cause" when relating to cause and effect. Since something most have always existed, that thing would be God. When I say something, I am including "nothing", as there may have originally been nothing, then nothing caused everything. I do not personally believe this, but I'm clearing up that with this definition, there HAS to be a God.
Now then, proving that time exists. Although many argue that time is a human creation, I say this is false. Units are a human creation, but time affects everything. This can be observed through cause and effect. For cause and effect to exist, one must come first, and one must come second, relative to each other. For one to be able to defined as being first, there must be an interval, or factor/difference, between the first and the second. Otherwise, there would be nothing to define cause, effect, and cause and effect together.
This argument itself can be taken down if I do not prove cause and effect exist, so I will try to do this. This is a little harder to do, especially from a philosophical viewpoint, specifically from the viewpoint of Kant who believes that time and causality do not exist. Ignoring that argument as it is subjective and can go either way, I believe that cause and effect must exist because many people interpret forces the same way. I am aware that things we see may be differently, but I propose this can only be in the case of adjectives and nouns. Actions, or verbs, can only be defined bu mankind so that we can talk to each other if we all see the same cause and effect. Otherwise the described action would be different for everyone. Although you may describe these actions with nouns and adjectives that can be subjective, many people see the same thing happen and thus the action is relevant to everyone and the same for everyone. If these actions exist, then cause and effect must because actions are used to define cause and effect. Falling is used to describe the cause of gravity on an apple, and the effect is it hits the Earth.
Now that I have, hopefully, made my points with these paragraphs that time exists, then I will explain why time is God. in the philosophical sense. As I said earlier, time is what allows cause and effect to exist, as one must come first and one must come second. However, if time didn't exist, there would be no cause and effect. There would be nothing to differentiate what was the cause and what was the effect, as nothing would come first and nothing would come second. Because of this, anything could be defined as the first cause, as well as nothing being able to be defined as the first cause. Time always existing and being the first cause is the only way for cause and effect to have ever existed. (Now, there might be a possibility that things could have existed without a cause and effect before time, and time came later. However, even if time appeared later due to something unforeseen, it could still be seen as the first cause as it would be the first thing to exist that could define the cause and effect of everything, thus allowing everything else to have cause and effect, making it the first cause.)
My theory expands from there, but from here on out it is a lot more easily debatable, especially in the argument of semantics. Anyway, I believe that time existed always based on what I said above. Now, I think there was nothing physical in the possible multiverse, so time was the only thing anywhere. Now I believe the briefest instant of a moment passed and the multiverse was presented with a true natural paradox. As there was nothing trying to permeate everything, as the nothingness was infinite, the physical nothingness tried to permeate time, as time, in the sense of a force, may or may not be dictated by bosons as other forces are. For the purposes of this theory, we'll go with the idea that time is a force, and as such it has a particle nature in the form of bosons. The idea here is that nothingness is unable to permeate anything in existence, but it was anyway. So, as an effect of this permeating, nature, at this point only consisting of time, created infinite everything to replace the nothingness. Now, once again, this is easily debatable as why would nothingness be able to permeate everything, but everything can take over for nothingness. My only argument against this is that nothing is nothing. It's there to be taken up by something. However, because it was inherently infinite, it was unwillingly acting against this purpose of its "existence", because if something is infinite, it must permeate everything.
Now then, based on this idea, the multiverse was created. The idea that time permeates everything can be seen today. If the multiverse exists, time is one of the very few things that spans it all, and the other things are all based on time. The dimensions of length, width, and height, are all affected by time, however we have no affect on time ourselves. If you believe in string theory, all of the dimensions above the forth, including things like other universes and different branches of time, are all affected by time itself as well. In this sense, time affect everything, however it seems that no "cause" has affected something for time to exist.
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This is my theory of time being the cause of everything. If you read it all, tear it apart all you want. Hopefully by doing so, we can come to a more reasonable view of what the first cause is.
And for all those Due to my laziness and short attention span, I have decided not to read your lengthy post. people, please don't comment.
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In my unavailable, most updated version I explain how time works as a force. The idea is that we are always moving forward in time at a point which we call the present. The only reason we could possible continue along this line or dimension of time is if a force acts upon us in the same manner that you move forward through dimension when forces are acted upon you or vice-versa due to the laws of motion. If time had a boson counterpart, then this would explain the movement forward through time.
Okay, I'll show a proof of why I believe this, but first I'd like to define some things.
When I say God in the OP, I am using one of the philosophical views of God. This view is that God is the first "cause" when relating to cause and effect. Since something most have always existed, that thing would be God. When I say something, I am including "nothing", as there may have originally been nothing, then nothing caused everything. I do not personally believe this, but I'm clearing up that with this definition, there HAS to be a God.
Now then, proving that time exists. Although many argue that time is a human creation, I say this is false. Units are a human creation, but time affects everything. This can be observed through cause and effect. For cause and effect to exist, one must come first, and one must come second, relative to each other. For one to be able to defined as being first, there must be an interval, or factor/difference, between the first and the second. Otherwise, there would be nothing to define cause, effect, and cause and effect together.
This argument itself can be taken down if I do not prove cause and effect exist, so I will try to do this. This is a little harder to do, especially from a philosophical viewpoint, specifically from the viewpoint of Kant who believes that time and causality do not exist. Ignoring that argument as it is subjective and can go either way, I believe that cause and effect must exist because many people interpret forces the same way. I am aware that things we see may be differently, but I propose this can only be in the case of adjectives and nouns. Actions, or verbs, can only be defined bu mankind so that we can talk to each other if we all see the same cause and effect. Otherwise the described action would be different for everyone. Although you may describe these actions with nouns and adjectives that can be subjective, many people see the same thing happen and thus the action is relevant to everyone and the same for everyone. If these actions exist, then cause and effect must because actions are used to define cause and effect. Falling is used to describe the cause of gravity on an apple, and the effect is it hits the Earth.
Now that I have, hopefully, made my points with these paragraphs that time exists, then I will explain why time is God. in the philosophical sense. As I said earlier, time is what allows cause and effect to exist, as one must come first and one must come second. However, if time didn't exist, there would be no cause and effect. There would be nothing to differentiate what was the cause and what was the effect, as nothing would come first and nothing would come second. Because of this, anything could be defined as the first cause, as well as nothing being able to be defined as the first cause. Time always existing and being the first cause is the only way for cause and effect to have ever existed. (Now, there might be a possibility that things could have existed without a cause and effect before time, and time came later. However, even if time appeared later due to something unforeseen, it could still be seen as the first cause as it would be the first thing to exist that could define the cause and effect of everything, thus allowing everything else to have cause and effect, making it the first cause.)
My theory expands from there, but from here on out it is a lot more easily debatable, especially in the argument of semantics. Anyway, I believe that time existed always based on what I said above. Now, I think there was nothing physical in the possible multiverse, so time was the only thing anywhere. Now I believe the briefest instant of a moment passed and the multiverse was presented with a true natural paradox. As there was nothing trying to permeate everything, as the nothingness was infinite, the physical nothingness tried to permeate time, as time, in the sense of a force, may or may not be dictated by bosons as other forces are. For the purposes of this theory, we'll go with the idea that time is a force, and as such it has a particle nature in the form of bosons. The idea here is that nothingness is unable to permeate anything in existence, but it was anyway. So, as an effect of this permeating, nature, at this point only consisting of time, created infinite everything to replace the nothingness. Now, once again, this is easily debatable as why would nothingness be able to permeate everything, but everything can take over for nothingness. My only argument against this is that nothing is nothing. It's there to be taken up by something. However, because it was inherently infinite, it was unwillingly acting against this purpose of its "existence", because if something is infinite, it must permeate everything.
Now then, based on this idea, the multiverse was created. The idea that time permeates everything can be seen today. If the multiverse exists, time is one of the very few things that spans it all, and the other things are all based on time. The dimensions of length, width, and height, are all affected by time, however we have no affect on time ourselves. If you believe in string theory, all of the dimensions above the forth, including things like other universes and different branches of time, are all affected by time itself as well. In this sense, time affect everything, however it seems that no "cause" has affected something for time to exist.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my theory of time being the cause of everything. If you read it all, tear it apart all you want. Hopefully by doing so, we can come to a more reasonable view of what the first cause is.
And for all those Due to my laziness and short attention span, I have decided not to read your lengthy post. people, please don't comment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my unavailable, most updated version I explain how time works as a force. The idea is that we are always moving forward in time at a point which we call the present. The only reason we could possible continue along this line or dimension of time is if a force acts upon us in the same manner that you move forward through dimension when forces are acted upon you or vice-versa due to the laws of motion. If time had a boson counterpart, then this would explain the movement forward through time.
From your point of view.