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Post by SwimFellow on Apr 12, 2011 15:37:50 GMT -5
So, I was watching Dan's recent video, (video's at the bottom if you haven't seen it yet,) and what it basically says is that obviously coal and oil don't work, and wind relies on too random a process, and solar isn't efficient and it's expensive, and that we can't put a hydroelectric generator in enough places to power the world.. Nuclear is the only reliable long term resource.
I think that's all happy and dandy, but there is a problem.
Right now, there isn't that much nuclear waste, and we don't need to worry about it. However, as we use power more and more, nuclear waste is pumped out. We're already storing it under a New Mexican mountain range, but what happens if it becomes too much? It'll last for 10,000 YEARS, and that is certainly a problem.
Fortunately, scientists are already thinking up ways to use that waste. Again, that's great. Nuclear does look promising.
However, I think that we can move out of nuclear. We don't need to RIGHT NOW, but if we use nuclear along with other ways of power, the world will be that much more.. Powered..
Hydroelectric is probably the most efficient, and my favorite. But unfortunately, it does mess with streams and the wildlife in those streams.
That's only one of the problems. The major problem is that dams convert potential energy from a waterfall into energy we can use. The water gets to the bottom, and eventually evaporates, and rains, which basically loops this process. Slowly.
This natural process is quite slow. However, there is potential energy that is used by water daily, and happens several times a day. As long as the moon doesn't explode, it will continue to work. Waves.
What if we built a wave farm in the middle of the ocean? Of course, I'm not a scientist, but it would work pretty much the same way as a dam. Except much quicker. And a lot more powerful. Any questions?
What do you guys think? Share your ideas about Wave Farm, and any ideas you have about an alternative energy source other than what we've thought of, or how to make solar, and wind and water better below. CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM ONLY! Please make a thread in Debate Club if you're debating something.
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Post by plainwhitepaper on Apr 12, 2011 16:07:28 GMT -5
So you're talking about tidal power, right? Personally, I think it's a great idea. Like you said, tides should remain pretty powerful for a long time, so it's as renewable as renewable gets. If I were to construct a wave farm, I think I'd have to research the local ecosystem first. The day-to-day operations as well as installation and maintenance would take their toll on any ecosystem. The Bay of Fundy would be a great site for this project. They already have a small system, and a bigger one in the works.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Apr 12, 2011 16:08:50 GMT -5
If the moon exploded we'd all be homeless since we live on the south pole of it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 16:32:40 GMT -5
100 years ago, almost all engines used steam powered engines. There were already fossil fuel engines, but compared to steam powered ones, these were incredibly inefficient. Up to the 30s, there were still trucks using steam. Only from the turn of the century and on a greater development of fossil fuels started to appear and these became more reliable and efficient. Currently, renewable energies are in the exact same position. We have a lot of promising energies, but yet, these are in a fragile state of development. If some love is given to these, and greater research is made (and for some specific energies, if the monopolies are shredded), their cost will drop and their effectiveness will increase exponentially (ok, not exponentially, but until it reaches the maximum practical limit possible). Regarding tidal power: yes, it is a promising energy source. Yet, it seems to me (from an intuitive point of view, and not any specific study whatsoever), that a river near sea (the end of the river) would be a better place to gather this energy, due to hydrodynamics (roughly said, in a flow moving from a place with a large diameter to a smaller diameter, a fluid will speed up). So, to optimize it, it would be better to have it in a river, but near sea, so the water coming from and to the ocean would affect whatever would be gathering the energy (turbines, I suppose). (how I missed these discussions, I'm glad this forum was made )
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Post by SwimFellow on Apr 12, 2011 16:46:28 GMT -5
@plainwaterpaper Some form of tidal power. I think we should think towards something that would be less harmful. The recent forms of tidal power that at least I've seen would be a danger to whales, and obviously smaller fish. Ooh! Idea! If we get this project to work (we'd have to work in Your Pants as well as here if we make this a project obviously) to make sure that marine animals don't get stuck in the gates, I think they should be grated. Insane_Zang @blue Thanks for teh sharing! A river would be a really cool place.. I'm not sure, I haven't sketched out exactly how my system will work (see my response to Plain) so.. I was thinking a kind of container in the middle of the ocean that would work like a dam, but would be much less harmful to wildlife surrounding it. Also, I know everyone will hate me for this, but I think we should tell Dan about our discussion. Very smart PogoTribers could be introduced to SPOTM!
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Apr 12, 2011 17:28:05 GMT -5
I'm for solar and wind energy. I've heard about solar energy being harnessed in space. Now that sounds like the future to me!
Tidal energy is probably another way to make renewable energy, too, but I don't know much about it. It seems much better than nuclear, fossil fuels and hydroelectric power.
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Post by Draemora on Apr 12, 2011 17:35:04 GMT -5
Why not just harness the continuous power of a current?
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Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Apr 12, 2011 17:45:38 GMT -5
Humans don't advance their technology by just taking the easiest route. Going into space will happen sooner or later, it's just natural that we explore.
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Post by SwimFellow on Apr 12, 2011 17:50:25 GMT -5
Draemora At least for bays, fish parents and babies go into a bay to teach them about seas. If we put a dam, or something along the lines of that in a current from the bay to the sea, that process will be screwed.. I don't know how the power would travel from space to earth...
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Post by Draemora on Apr 12, 2011 17:58:55 GMT -5
I'm for solar and wind energy. I've heard about solar energy being harnessed in space. Now that sounds like the future to me! Tidal energy is probably another way to make renewable energy, too, but I don't know much about it. It seems much better than nuclear, fossil fuels and hydroelectric power. Sure, you can harness solar energy in space... But a ton of the energy is lost or dissipated in the transfer back to earth. A laser would focus the energy into a single beam, but the atmosphere will quickly absorb it. On the other hand, beaming the energy as microwaves might work, but it would require a ridiculously large collection disk because the beams disperse quickly. As for tidal energy... A nuclear breeder reactor that runs on sea water outshines any other type of energy source besides fusion and other future systems. Basically, the reactor burns the waste it creates continuously (up to 99%), making more fuel than what it consumes. In fact, there are hypothesized models that would have a 1.8 fuel consumption/creation ratio. As for tidal, as far as I know, they need to be set up in bays or in relatively shallow water in order to be economically feasible. Not only would an oceanic tidal generator need to be huge, it would also require a system to transfer the energy to a city, town, etc. Strictly theoretically speaking, a system that brings particles and anti-particles together to annihilate them into pure energy would be the most efficient power generation system.
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Post by Ryan on Apr 12, 2011 18:42:29 GMT -5
Tidal power would not generate enough power as a sole source of energy. Though it could be beneficial to use in coastal regions, there are multiple problems associated with harnessing the tides, that have not been thoroughly addressed.
As for making any form of energy better there are really only two things that need to be thought of (for each energy source). 1. More funding and research. Alternative energies are being researched, but not enough money or subsidies are being put into alternative energies for them to have taken as much hold as they have the potential to. 2. Distribution of energy. Energy is more easily gathered at certain locations than at others. There needs to be an energy distribution system that can distribute the energy gathered more effectively. An interconnected and effective distribution system would allow us to distribute extra energy produced in LA, to small towns in Wyoming, should the local power plants in Wyoming be opperating near capacity, and the power usage in LA be low. Having such a distribution system would decrease energy costs as energy could be produced close to where the resources are that are needed to produce said eneryg.
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Post by plainwhitepaper on Apr 12, 2011 19:07:22 GMT -5
In some parts of the world (Iceland in particular) geothermal energy is very popular. It is very clean and reliable. It can only really be produced along fault lines, but if energy distribution infrastructure improves (as Ryan suggests it should) geothermal energy could be transported froim the fault lines to other locations nearby. A give and take system would be perfect, although the financial details could be tricky to work out if done internationally. Imagine if it was competely computerized! Sensors and computers would calculate the energy needs of each region, and then would send the suitable amounts of energy to each location. Just a pipe dream.
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ryan
Moon
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Post by ryan on Apr 12, 2011 23:35:00 GMT -5
wat about the oher ones...wind...geo, solar..?
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Post by SwimFellow on Apr 13, 2011 7:07:40 GMT -5
ryan 1. I think that tidal power can be efficient. We just haven't figured it out yet. @plain That sounds like a great idea. ryan Well, for wind and solar, think about how we can make those better (I can't think of anything for wind,) for geo.. We're already discussing geo.
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Post by Draemora on Apr 13, 2011 7:55:11 GMT -5
ryan Well, for wind and solar, think about how we can make those better (I can't think of anything for wind,) for geo.. We're already discussing geo. Airborne wind farm, at certain altitudes the winds are virtually constant.
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Post by SwimFellow on Apr 13, 2011 14:52:04 GMT -5
Draemora You mean like a tower? I can't see it HOVERING in the air.. lol But very nice idea. EDIT: We'll need to work on answering these questions though: 1. How will the windmill be airborne? 2. How does the power get back to the ground? If you have any questions, post below. I'll edit this post, and the complete list, including yours, will be here..
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Post by Draemora on Apr 13, 2011 19:02:40 GMT -5
This is terribly primitive though. It might be tough to notice, but it's a blimp. Towers of such a height would be slightly unpractical and costly. Also, forgot to add orbital tether, or space elevator, to the energy transfer possibilities of an orbital solar array.
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Post by SwimFellow on Apr 13, 2011 19:36:50 GMT -5
hmm..
I wonder if we should post this in projects:
Let's work on newer blueprints for tidal and of course the blimp wind.. Thing..
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Post by Ryan on Apr 13, 2011 19:46:43 GMT -5
I would move against putting into projects, at least in the way you're talking about Swim. The lack of knowledge this community has on the actual method and means of the energy distribution, and even production (yes you have the basic idea, but not all the mechanics) of such energy would make a project for designing such systems, practically useless.
If however, you would like to make a project for some method of supporting research in such fields, then I would be all for it. But really - the actual design should be left for the experts.
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Post by Draemora on Apr 13, 2011 19:57:58 GMT -5
What ryan said. It's too difficult to design and test something that complex.
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