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Post by rainerfilm on Apr 4, 2010 16:03:18 GMT -5
Hi there, I can't understand why people can't open up to different believes. I grew up as a Christian, a few years ago I turned 100% spiritual and I never went back to church. I grew up in a very religious community, the people around me have huge problems accepting the fact that I believe differently. It is fact that most people grow up in the same religion than their parents, and this makes me ask: 1.What will your parents do if you change to a different religion or believe? 2.Are there some of you that only acts like a religious person, but in reality you believe differently? If yes, please tell my why you choose to keep your believes a secret from the people around you? 3.If you are a very religious person, do you have a problem with other people's believes? If yes, please tell me why it offends you? 4. If you are a Christian and you have a daughter that converts to Buddhism, how will you react to this? 5. If you are a Buddhist and you have a daughter that converts to Christian, how will you react to this? 6. If you as a parent force your child to believe in your own religion, why does it not count as a cult? 7. WHAT CAN WE PHYSICALLY DO TO STOP THIS RIDICULOUS RELIGIOUS PROBLEMS?
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Philosoraptor
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dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
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Post by Philosoraptor on Apr 4, 2010 16:19:16 GMT -5
"beliefs", for future reference.
Religion is still popular today because it is passed on through generations, customarily. A Catholic parent will more than likely raise its child to accept Catholic views, a child growing up in Iran will likely be raised Islamic, et cetera. In most cases, the child is taught that it is a Catholic child, or an Islamic child, or a Jewish child, even before the child actually has the capacity to understand religion. This is, in my opinion, quite an awful thing to do.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Apr 4, 2010 16:21:59 GMT -5
An interesting set of questions. Here's my responses:
1.What will your parents do if you change to a different religion or believe?
Considering I have changed, I know that mother disagrees, but otherwise does not act or treat me any differently, and father didn't seem to be bothered at all one way or the other.
2.Are there some of you that only acts like a religious person, but in reality you believe differently? If yes, please tell my why you choose to keep your believes a secret from the people around you?
I'd say no in my case. I don't parade about my lack of belief (outside of places where it's being openly debated that is), and so while I don't do anything religious, I don't know that the average religious person would even notice.
3.If you are a very religious person, do you have a problem with other people's believes? If yes, please tell me why it offends you?
Doesn't apply to me.
4. If you are a Christian and you have a daughter that converts to Buddhism, how will you react to this?
5. If you are a Buddhist and you have a daughter that converts to Christian, how will you react to this?
Hard to answer since I'm not either, so pass on the literal questions. Being atheist, if my children were to convert to a religion, I admit I'd be a little disappointed in the lack of realism, but as long as they weren't on a fanatical level and didn't believe anything that contradicts the known facts or common sense, I don't think I'd be all that bothered.
6. If you as a parent force your child to believe in your own religion, why does it not count as a cult?
I agree with your stance, but to play devil's advocate, parents do have a right to raise their children as they see fit (as long as they stay within the goalposts of the law). They teach their children what manners to have, what friends they should make... all these things. Religion generally ends up bunched in there. You can't really mandate that parents must show children all the religions, nor can you mandate that they must keep their child free of them.
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Post by rainerfilm on Apr 4, 2010 16:29:38 GMT -5
"beliefs", for future reference. In most cases, the child is taught that it is a Catholic child, or an Islamic child, or a Jewish child, even before the child actually has the capacity to understand religion. This is, in my opinion, quite an awful thing to do. I agree, the exact same thing happened to me, got raised as a christian just to find out (20 years later) that I am not christian. Lucky for me, my parents (my father to be more specific) is very open minded.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 4, 2010 16:32:21 GMT -5
My moms very rational about this, she basically says whatever and keeps her own beliefs separate. My dad sat me down as a 12 year old and told me that the christian god was the one true god and the only religion of love, and that it was okay to learn about other religions, but he didn't want me to be taken in by them or believe in them because the people who believed in them were crazy. I think this was a mistake as it left me unable to develop my own beliefs and meant that when the time came and I really needed something I had nothing, as I couldn't take Catholic Jesus as he was fed to me in school. What i have now is more of a scar than a belief, something that grew over a hole cut in me by crisis. I think it's a good idea to develop some kind of theory so you'll have a least some small bit of protection for when these times come, but these will be the things that forge your belief, not all the gentle consideration you do on an idle Sunday.
Well I hope they believe some decent religion like Islam or Christianity and not some hippy new-age crap.
Kidding!
Whatever. I hope I'd have a kid that believed in science but felt the existence of a higher power, because that's probably the happiest way to be.
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Philosoraptor
Moon
dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
Posts: 145
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Post by Philosoraptor on Apr 4, 2010 16:38:42 GMT -5
I agree, but I don't think that makes religious indoctrination of children any better. Members of staunchly and outwardly racist organizations (like the Klu Klux Klan, for example) almost certainly raise their children from a very young age to believe as they do, and it's completely legal for them to do so. Most people wouldn't accept that as a good and positive thing for a parent to do, though, of course.
It so happens that for the most part, religious indoctrination of children is looked at as a harmless, sometimes good thing in our society. Well, of course they're going to tell their children to be catholic... they're his parents... they're only trying to instill good morals... nothing wrong with that... he can choose later on if he wants to continue believing...
Religious indoctrination of children is something I'm firmly against. I encourage the teaching of sensible, human morals by parents. That's a very good, responsible thing to do. But forcing onto a child the burden of religious dogma, that's where it begins to rub me the wrong way.
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Post by rainerfilm on Apr 4, 2010 16:38:59 GMT -5
This is how I believe, but I don't claim that I am right, I BELIEVE THAT NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW THIS.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 4, 2010 16:49:33 GMT -5
I have this strange feeling that if I don't force Catholicism on my children then they won't suffer like me and their parents and their grandparents and their great grandparents and their great great grandparents etc... so they won't really be Irish. They won't understand John McGahren and John McCabe and they will be all happy and well balanced and won't have a well-developed sense of shame and guilt. I dunno if I have the right to do that to them either way.
I used to help mind my next door neighbors kids and god was in every single second of their life, even when they were in the shower and they had to look up so as not to get soap in their eyes it was "look up to god!" My mom used to have to say prayers in the morning, again when she got to school, before eating, after eating, the angelus, the rosary in the evening, and before going to bed. I had the same experience in school but not outside of it, though i did pray and say the rosary sometimes it was because i wanted to. My parents thought it was a bit odd.
I think this is somehow a part of who i am, even if i don't believe it, these mantras in the dark. Even now when I'm stressed I say the Lords Prayer, not because i'm praying but because there is comfort in the sound. "My words fly up, my thoughts remain below; Words without thoughts never to heaven go."
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Apr 4, 2010 17:04:32 GMT -5
I agree, but I don't think that makes religious indoctrination of children any better. Members of staunchly and outwardly racist organizations (like the Klu Klux Klan, for example) almost certainly raise their children from a very young age to believe as they do, and it's completely legal for them to do so. Most people wouldn't accept that as a good and positive thing for a parent to do, though, of course. It so happens that for the most part, religious indoctrination of children is looked at as a harmless, sometimes good thing in our society. Well, of course they're going to tell their children to be catholic... they're his parents... they're only trying to instill good morals... nothing wrong with that... he can choose later on if he wants to continue believing... Religious indoctrination of children is something I'm firmly against. I encourage the teaching of sensible, human morals by parents. That's a very good, responsible thing to do. But forcing onto a child the burden of religious dogma, that's where it begins to rub me the wrong way. I agree wholeheartedly, yet there's no way we can prevent it from a legal perspective. (Drafting a law that would do so would be just as immoral -- if not more so -- as the indoctrination is to begin with. At best we would have to look to alternative solutions.
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Post by rainerfilm on Apr 4, 2010 18:03:28 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly, yet there's no way we can prevent it from a legal perspective. (Drafting a law that would do so would be just as immoral -- if not more so -- as the indoctrination is to begin with. At best we would have to look to alternative solutions. Makes sense, but there is one thing that I learned the hard way, and that is that there will an answer that benefits both parties. You just need to find it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 18:45:56 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly, yet there's no way we can prevent it from a legal perspective. (Drafting a law that would do so would be just as immoral -- if not more so -- as the indoctrination is to begin with. At best we would have to look to alternative solutions./quote] Makes sense, but there is one thing that I learned the hard way, and that is that there will an answer that benefits both parties. You just need to find it. Just passing by this thread, but how about using education on our side? I am not talking about teaching which is each religion, but something as simple as teaching in a somewhat early age - but not too early - that there is an incredible amount of religions worldwide, most people believe their religion is correct, and that some people do not have a religion at all. This would help children to learn about the existence of different religions, help to avoid dogmas against certain religions, and help children not to be abusingly influenced by their parents. Just an idea.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Apr 4, 2010 20:18:51 GMT -5
I thought about that. It may help for the most part, but at the same time I think it would cause the most dogmatic to try to indoctrinate their kids to ignore anything that class had to say. It's hard to guess at the long term effects. The real challenge, of course, would be getting such a thing passed into the curriculum. Unfortunately in those places where this is the biggest problem you will have the least luck actually passing something like this.
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matttherobot
Meteorite
As I Spy From Behind My Giant Robot's Eyes
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Post by matttherobot on Apr 4, 2010 22:14:41 GMT -5
Its hard to say whether religion is forced. There is certainly a natural tendency for humans to have spiritual leanings or to want to believe in a higher power.
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Post by bunnyfulwanderer on Apr 4, 2010 22:16:20 GMT -5
1.What will your parents do if you change to a different religion or believe? currently doing this, it's slightly bumpy but not horrible as of yet. my aunt will be far worse then my mom or dad. 2.Are there some of you that only acts like a religious person, but in reality you believe differently? If yes, please tell my why you choose to keep your believes a secret from the people around you? welllll... you could say when I was younger and indeed attended a christian private school that and a christian childrens sports leage, and went to church every sunday and was forced to attend sundayschool/conformation classes. (and during the first 5 grades of grade school my church and school were actually the same building) lets just say it was kind of hard to avoid the god thing. so I acted more devout then I actually was. I told everyone god was the most important thing in my life becuase I felt like I was supposed to, I ritualistically read a bible verse each day (the sports league made me) etc.
but now I generally am more honest with my beliefs. I think it helps me to keep growing and learning as a person. 3.If you are a very religious person, do you have a problem with other people's believes? If yes, please tell me why it offends you? No, I'm not offended by any religious beliefs per-say, unless it is used to justify hate or for people to harm each other.While atheism/agnosticism is not religions (and this belief is by no means universal to these people), I will state that I have utter contempt for those who think lesser of people for having any spiritual beliefs. it's immature and petty, and just plain ignorant. I'm glad I grew out of that. 4.you are a Christian and you have a daughter that converts to Buddhism, how will you react to this? Well I'm not a christian but based on my current beliefs. I wouldn't care. however I will mention that within mainstream Christianity and it's singular "one true god" belif system, this would usually result in a bad reaction 5. If you are a Buddhist and you have a daughter that converts to Christian, how will you react to this? I'm not Buddhist, but based on what I know of Buddhism this would generally give the more open and understanding response among the two. 6. If you as a parent force your child to believe in your own religion, why does it not count as a cult? Well I think I should mention that my religion (Wicca) not only speaks out against proselytizing, but childhood indoctrination, a child can not even join a coven until they reach 18 years of age, however pagan parents do teach their kids about their religion sometimes, but it's not in the same sense of christian churches and "Sunday school" it's usually optional as far as I know and it's certifiably more like adding fun parts of the religion to the child's life growing up, nothing like the "join us or die in the pits of hell" scare tactic/ or the brainwashing people think of when they hear about parents teaching their child their religion. 7. WHAT CAN WE PHYSICALLY DO TO STOP THIS RIDICULES RELIGIOUS PROBLEMS? well, Although I have yet to read it, (I own a copy) in Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion" he made a very clear point about likening religious indoctrination (espically into religions that tell a child if they're bad they are going to hell...) as child abuse. perhaps pursuing this definition in the real world will help. now granted not cases of parents teaching their kids is abuse, and the kids usually wont recongise it. so it's a very fine line...
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matttherobot
Meteorite
As I Spy From Behind My Giant Robot's Eyes
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Post by matttherobot on Apr 4, 2010 23:00:14 GMT -5
Sweet Jesus. Please never use those colors again, its a major pain to try to read those last two points without having my eyes bleed.
Not trying to hate on you or anything, just giving a heads up.
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Post by bunnyfulwanderer on Apr 4, 2010 23:13:37 GMT -5
Sweet Jesus. Please never use those colors again, its a major pain to try to read those last two points without having my eyes bleed. Not trying to hate on you or anything, just giving a heads up. sowwy. not used to using sites with a white skin
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matttherobot
Meteorite
As I Spy From Behind My Giant Robot's Eyes
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Post by matttherobot on Apr 4, 2010 23:29:08 GMT -5
Ha Ha, its not a problem, I kinda regret saying it like that.
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MCPuppet
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I shall overcome
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Post by MCPuppet on Apr 4, 2010 23:34:52 GMT -5
I was a long time Christian, gone Agnostic, gone Atheist. Ha. Anyways. My mother doesn't take me seriously AT all, and would threaten to kick me out of the house if I ever said I didn't believe in God. I have actually absolutely no problem with religions, and I hate being grouped in with the Atheist kind of people who are ignorant and just bash religion all the time, which is why I would hesitate to call myself one. I've studied religion, and it's all very interesting. If I so choose to be a parent, they will have freedom to choose their religion.
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Post by bunnyfulwanderer on Apr 4, 2010 23:37:23 GMT -5
I was a long time Christian, gone Agnostic, gone Atheist. Ha. Anyways. My mother doesn't take me seriously AT all, and would threaten to kick me out of the house if I ever said I didn't believe in God. I have actually absolutely no problem with religions, and I hate being grouped in with the Atheist kind of people who are ignorant and just bash religion all the time, which is why I would hesitate to call myself one. I've studied religion, and it's all very interesting. If I so choose to be a parent, they will have freedom to choose their religion. right on. your kids would be lucky to have a parent like you.
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Post by alwaysthinking on Apr 5, 2010 1:37:34 GMT -5
1.What will your parents do if you change to a different religion or believe?
My mom didn't talk to me for 3 months. This may not seem like a long time, but I was 12, so it seemed like an eternity.
2.Are there some of you that only acts like a religious person, but in reality you believe differently? If yes, please tell my why you choose to keep your believes a secret from the people around you?
The only time I do this is when I'm trying to get something from someone who is religious, I make that connection and it really gives incentive for them to want to deal with me. I have a lot of knowledge on a lot of religions, so I'm able to do this. Right thing to do? Probably not, however, I really don't care.
3.If you are a very religious person, do you have a problem with other people's believes? If yes, please tell me why it offends you?
I'm not religious, so I'll answer the opposite. I really have a problem with people that completely neglect fact over opinion. It kills me on the inside. Really.
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