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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 6, 2010 20:41:18 GMT -5
I think abortion should be legal. I have many reasons for this, but here's one thing that most people don't think about: Some people argue that as soon as an egg is fertilized, a human is created. Thus, an abortion is murder. But at that point in time, it is not a human. It only has the potential to be human. It is a bunch of cells that feed off of the mother. Kinda like a parasite. And I don't think saying "It would have become human" is a fair argument. ALL sperm and ALL eggs could become human. It's just a matter of being in the right conditions. It's okay to not use your other sperm/eggs to make a baby, but as soon as they touch, it's a human and can't be stopped from growing? I don't think so. I have other reasons, but I think this is enough for you all to think over for now.
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Post by Ryan on Apr 6, 2010 20:45:15 GMT -5
Well, the majority of debate was going on between the males of this thread: the women who posted were both pro choice. I agree with your conclusion that infertile women should also be excluded, I was not generalizing to only males, but I was generalizing from males. No male should have a say - does not mean that those without say should all be male.
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Post by RandiKthxxx on Apr 6, 2010 21:00:44 GMT -5
I think it should be illegal. Killing anything is wrong as conjoin said. We need to get a better adoption system in place first though. And make it manslaughter and/or child abuse so it would cause less people to do it. So if a 12 year old girl is raped we should force her to go through the pain of both carrying AND delivering a baby?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2010 7:30:27 GMT -5
In all honesty. If you are a male - YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER at least as far as legalization. This is something that a woman has to decide, as it is her giving birth or not giving birth, it is her body, not yours. If you are a male and your partner is considering abortion then yeah - maybe your opinion matters a little, but under no circumstances should that affect everyone else. that's ridiculous.. This is a debate about how society functions, nobody should be excluded out of such a debate. IMO it has to be legal, first of all because of the FACT stated ^^ that people would still do it, only it would be a lot more dangerous to the mother. When it comes to the discovery of certain diseases, I think the basic question has to be "Will this child have a rewarding life? Will it be able to function in society and be happy?" If not, I say it's better to die before you experience the joy of life and then experience the horrid reality of your limitations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2010 8:14:56 GMT -5
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Post by JustAnne on Apr 7, 2010 8:22:13 GMT -5
In all honesty. If you are a male - YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER at least as far as legalization. This is something that a woman has to decide, as it is her giving birth or not giving birth, it is her body, not yours. If you are a male and your partner is considering abortion then yeah - maybe your opinion matters a little, but under no circumstances should that affect everyone else. that's ridiculous.. This is a debate about how society functions, nobody should be excluded out of such a debate. IMO it has to be legal, first of all because of the FACT stated ^^ that people would still do it, only it would be a lot more dangerous to the mother. When it comes to the discovery of certain diseases, I think the basic question has to be "Will this child have a rewarding life? Will it be able to function in society and be happy?" If not, I say it's better to die before you experience the joy of life and then experience the horrid reality of your limitations. but if a person doesn't know any different would it really be that limited? I never had mountain dew before I came to America and I never felt that there was anything missing in my life.. So a person who never knew what it's like to not have down's syndrome may know that there are people who live differently and can do different things but that person may not really be affected by that knowledge, like I wasn't affected by knowing that there are drinks out there in different countries that I might love but yeah, never tried, so never know.. and who are we to say who's life will be good and who's won't? The only thing we know is that it will be a lot more work for the parents or whoever cares for those children..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2010 8:30:24 GMT -5
I can't answer that for sure, since I'm not handicapped, and we should really ask a handicapped person (though that would be kind of rude XD), but I think they would naturally compare themselves to the people around them and start asking questions about why they are different and what it means to them.
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Post by JustAnne on Apr 7, 2010 8:44:51 GMT -5
yes, but there are other things that can happen, too. you never know if you might be in a wheel chair five years from now.. it's certainly harder for those people too, but that doesn't mean they won't ever be happy (again). but yeah, as you said without being handicapped ourselves we can never really tell..
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Post by Jake on Apr 7, 2010 15:16:49 GMT -5
In all honesty. If you are a male - YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER at least as far as legalization. This is something that a woman has to decide, as it is her giving birth or not giving birth, it is her body, not yours. If you are a male and your partner is considering abortion then yeah - maybe your opinion matters a little, but under no circumstances should that affect everyone else. Yes, it is ultimately the woman's choice but if a wife/girlfriend is refusing to even listen to the husband's/boyfriend's opinion then the relationship is clearly not working out too well.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Apr 7, 2010 15:25:20 GMT -5
Whether or not a woman has an abortion is up to that woman in the end, though I would think the father (and perhaps other family members) would have at least some opportunity to talk to her about it.
Whether or not any abortion is morally acceptable is a debate based on the idea that the foetus is, at some stage, a form of life unable to speak for itself but deserving of a defence, and therefore it falls to those of us living to make the determination as to whether that is true and at what stage abortion is no longer acceptable if so. In a debate such as that, one's gender should have no real impact, because we are speaking subjectively on a topic that science can offer us some insight into.
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Post by Ryan on Apr 7, 2010 15:33:49 GMT -5
I would like to point out that I stated that if you're partner is considering it, then yes your opinion matters a little, but otherwise it does not. people who are incapable of being pregnant should not decide what is legal and illegal for pregnant women, it is far from fair to the pregnant women.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on Apr 7, 2010 15:42:24 GMT -5
I disagree. The only reason it would be illegal has nothing to do with the woman (who could otherwise do as she wishes with her body), but rather with the child, which cannot speak on its own behalf. In short: the only reason abortion might be illegal is because there is a child (a foetus) involved. Science is our best method of determining at what stage the child is a sentient life form, capable of thinking or capable of experiencing pain or emotion. Abortion is about the woman's body and the foetus which makes all the difference in the world. And the scientific approach to determining the key stages of the foetus's development are equally determinable by men or women of the appropriate fields of science.
The woman is only one of two (potential) lives involved in the debate. If they were the only life then your statement would be true. (And if science determines that the foetus is not a 'life' for the first three months, then for the first three months your statement would, in fact, hold true). But if the foetus is developed enough to be considered a sentient life, capable of thought, feelings and emotion, then it needs representation as well, and at that point I disagree wholeheartedly that men shouldn't be able to include their thoughts and opinions on the matter of the child's life.
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mrmrmr8
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Post by mrmrmr8 on Apr 7, 2010 18:49:04 GMT -5
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tnj
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Post by tnj on Apr 8, 2010 7:30:35 GMT -5
Abortion should definitely be legal.
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Post by devinnielson on Apr 8, 2010 8:07:05 GMT -5
Morally I think liberals and pro choice arguments are better. If you want a really good depiction of the pro choice argument you can watch Joe Felice's video just below. It was made almost two years ago but most of what he says still remains true. You can find his youtube channel here www.youtube.com/user/JoeFelice
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Post by dibwys on Apr 8, 2010 12:12:29 GMT -5
The foetus has the potential to become a living breathing human being, and that does need to be taken into consideration. However, the woman is already a living breathing human being, and therefore generally deserves priority. It's one of those issues where it does very much depend on the circumstances.
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Duffy ze Emu
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Post by Duffy ze Emu on Apr 8, 2010 12:39:45 GMT -5
I'm on the side of abortion being legal. From the scientific standpoint, a baby isn't a living, sentient being until it is born. I mean, can any of you remember your time in the uterus, or even a few years after that? A foetus is not a living being. Yet. From a moral standpoint, there are myriad reasons for an abortion. Will the child be disabled? Most disabilities will not only make the child's life more difficult (Though, of course, he may not know anything else. This is still under discussion), he could be bullied for being "different". His family could be abused, and the child is likely to make their lives more difficult. Hell, this sounds awful, but I really wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome, for instance. As soon as I found out the foetus had Down's I would push for an abortion. My life would be unnecessarily complex and difficult (Compared to, say, a "normal" child) and the kid could not live a "full" life, seeing as most people with Down's don't live past their 20s. With or without a disability, an unwanted child's life would be miserable. The foster care/adoption system tries its best, but the kid would never have a stable life. They'd always be an outsider. At home, the unwanted child could get abused or simply be the subject of resent and contempt from its parents and/or siblings. If the child is going to be miserable, or if it's unwanted, then there is nothing to say it shouldn't be born. And, obviously, if it risks the mother's life it should be able to go, and if it was the result of rape/molestation then the mother should certainly have the choice.
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 8, 2010 14:54:59 GMT -5
The foetus has the potential to become a living breathing human being, and that does need to be taken into consideration. Potential is irrelevant. All sperm and egg have the potential to become a human being. That doesn't mean it's immoral for a person not to use every single sperm or egg their body produces.
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Post by stephen5000 on Apr 8, 2010 14:58:27 GMT -5
Personally, I'd be opposed to abortion for reasons of the child having some deformation or genetic disease. Excepting maybe if it was clear the baby would die within a very short time frame after birth, or perhaps during birth. However, if there was a good chance the child would live for years, even with the difficulty of the illness, I would still support life. Otherwise it seems to much like eugenics.
Now, of course, the ultimate decision needs to be left up to the mother, even in these cases.
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RabbitWho
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 8, 2010 15:24:33 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that it's none of my business. There are plenty of babies starving and dying in the world, if I care about babies I should help them. When they are all fine then I will worry about the aborted babies, but not until then because it's hypocrisy.
Priorities people!
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