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Post by arbblamb on May 8, 2010 12:28:26 GMT -5
I believe that Abortion is ones own decision. Though I do not think one should abuse it and get them all the time. There comes a point of stupidity vs. using your brain! I believe that those who think it should be illegal yes you have your own values about it but, your not the one getting the abortion who has to deal with being pregnant at 16, or having a child cause of rape or w.e. Your values are important but your not that one making the choose and having to live with it.
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kadie
Moon
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Post by kadie on May 8, 2010 16:48:50 GMT -5
I don't know if this point has been raised or not but it hasn't since I've been following the debate.
Research is carried out by scientists on fertilised eggs, which are created just for this purpose.
People make all this hullabaloo about abortion, I rarely hear about people protesting these experiments.
Just thought I'd throw that out there cause it's always been something that intrigued me and I'm keen to know what people think.
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Post by fcktht on May 9, 2010 10:49:31 GMT -5
I believe that Abortion is ones own decision. Though I do not think one should abuse it and get them all the time. There comes a point of stupidity vs. using your brain! I believe that those who think it should be illegal yes you have your own values about it but, your not the one getting the abortion who has to deal with being pregnant at 16, or having a child cause of rape or w.e. Your values are important but your not that one making the choose and having to live with it. i think most people would allow for abortion in cases of rape...as for 16 year old pregnant girl, screw you! orite...you already were...
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sarahhsuee
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Post by sarahhsuee on May 9, 2010 21:42:27 GMT -5
I myself would never dream of killing an unborn child. I won't even try to go into my religious beliefs on this one. But in my mind, you've already started a life. They could grow up to be friends, spouses, parents, grandparents... My parents went through an adoption process to get me. My birth mother didn't plan me, nor did she have the money to take care of me. There's so many couples out there who can't have children of their own. By giving up a child for adoption, you could be fullfilling someone's dream. An abortion is generally more expensive than just having the baby and then giving it up for adoption. The only other reason I can think of for having an abortion is that you don't want the pain of childbirth. I see this is cowardly and selfish. There's women who would give anything to have that pain, and you're going to both deprive some potential couple of a child AND commit a selfish act? It just doesn't make sense. But if someone really want's to kill an unborn child, for whatever their reasons, I don't think there should be a law to stop them. Free will.
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sarahhsuee
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Post by sarahhsuee on May 9, 2010 21:45:03 GMT -5
I believe that Abortion is ones own decision. Though I do not think one should abuse it and get them all the time. There comes a point of stupidity vs. using your brain! I believe that those who think it should be illegal yes you have your own values about it but, your not the one getting the abortion who has to deal with being pregnant at 16, or having a child cause of rape or w.e. Your values are important but your not that one making the choose and having to live with it. i think most people would allow for abortion in cases of rape...as for 16 year old pregnant girl, screw you! orite...you already were... Even in cases of rape, the girl could have a chance to give a couple who can't have children of their own a child. It makes sense to take a bad situation and let it benefit someone else.
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kadie
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Posts: 240
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Post by kadie on May 10, 2010 8:28:00 GMT -5
i think most people would allow for abortion in cases of rape...as for 16 year old pregnant girl, screw you! orite...you already were... Even in cases of rape, the girl could have a chance to give a couple who can't have children of their own a child. It makes sense to take a bad situation and let it benefit someone else. But the thing with cases of rape is, if you were to keep the child, right there growing inside you is a reminder of what happened to you. That would be incredibly tramatic for some people. Granted some could cope and see the good in the situation but not everyone could and they shouldn't be forced to go through that.
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Juno
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Post by Juno on May 10, 2010 10:33:29 GMT -5
ok so Ive been reading the past comments and I havent been following the convo that well, but, yeah, I agree with arbblamb. It is one's decision. Like, for example, Juno. She kept the baby but, for me, i wouldve considered abortion. I think if its NESSASARY, like if u dont have the money to take care of it, then ya, totally. But it still is one's body, and they can do whatever they want with it.
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Post by krzych32 on May 10, 2010 13:37:34 GMT -5
ibeckie, your arguments are complitly illogical. You are compering a fetus to a tumer?! Just because the are both made out of cells? You are made out of cells also, SO YOU MUST BE A TUMER by your logic. Really, get some real arguments first and then come back to this topic. And with your second example, I don't even know what you are saying in there, it has nothing to do with abortion.
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sarahhsuee
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Post by sarahhsuee on May 10, 2010 14:33:17 GMT -5
Even in cases of rape, the girl could have a chance to give a couple who can't have children of their own a child. It makes sense to take a bad situation and let it benefit someone else. But the thing with cases of rape is, if you were to keep the child, right there growing inside you is a reminder of what happened to you. That would be incredibly tramatic for some people. Granted some could cope and see the good in the situation but not everyone could and they shouldn't be forced to go through that. I agree. That's why I think it should be left up to the mother to choose. I personally think it's wrong, but that's my belief, and I don't want to force that on anyone. It's the mother's choice. It should not be illegal.
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Juno
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Post by Juno on May 11, 2010 22:45:00 GMT -5
Slightly confuzzled...
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Post by oodonut on May 15, 2010 22:53:22 GMT -5
I think abortion should be legal for the first 7 weeks after conception- People often claim that a killing a fetus with a heartbeat is murder, but is a heartbeat what really makes a creature have human worth? No, the brain is! I can kill a worm with a heartbeat and you wouldnt think anything of it. The human/sentient brain determines human worth. If the brain doesnt work, the body is useless and in a way, the person isnt really a person. So once a fetus starts developing a brain, after about 7 weeks (as opposed to the heartbeat that begins after 2), the first step to it being an individual person has begun, and only then can you argue that killing it is equal to murder.
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macneill
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Post by macneill on May 18, 2010 19:05:22 GMT -5
Allow me to tackle the issue of rape concerning abortion. Now, rape is a tactic used by the pro choice advocates to try to exploit the misfortune of those in extreme circumstances to justify their own unethical position. This is a very sad occurrence, and I'm disappointed that people resort to using that as a point of debate. However, let me ask you this. Does the means by which a human being is conceived invalidate the life of that human being? It cannot. The means is irrelevant, the sanctity of life is the only thing that matters. Rape is a horrifically violent act, and it cannot be solved with another terribly violent act. Rape victims deserve the support of the community and of their families. Taking the life of an innocent child does nothing but wreak more havoc upon the world. Regardless of the means of conception, a child is a child.
I am not a religious person. I consider myself to be an apathetic atheist. My view point is not guided by faith or ideology; it is guided by basic principles of human morality.
I have seen several people on this thread who describe themselves as pro life. These same people wish to make exception for rape and for first trimester abortions. This, in all earnest, deserves a very large, very dramatic face palm. There is no snap of the finger that instantly makes a human a human. At conception, we as human beings on this Earth carry the human genome. It is not the monkey genome. It is not the fish genome. It is not the refrigerator genome. It is that of man. The unborn have been desensitized over time, just like in any genocide throughout history. If you want to justify the mass destruction of life, convince the masses that it is not life. Life's answers are found throughout history. In this instance, we need not look very far.
A society that deems it acceptable to end the life of a child for mere convenience is a society that should be under extreme questioning. Why is personal convenience of one individual worth the right to life of another? Abortion is not the matter of one's body or one's right to choose. It is a matter of personal convenience over the life of a human being. As a society, this issue must be addressed thusly. To quote the famous Dr. Seuss,
"A person's a person, no matter how small."
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on May 19, 2010 0:29:41 GMT -5
Indeed, a person is a person regardless of their size. But a first trimester embryo is not a person. Not because of size, but because of the lack of nerves, a mind... any semblance of conscious thought. Your argument is a valid argument against pro-lifers who allow abortion in special circumstances. It is completely invalid against a pro-choice stance however. It's basically a straw-man in that case, not at all addressing the fact that the pro-choice argument is related mainly to the fact that the embryo is not yet human. That is where pro-choice draws the line; when the embryo/foetus is at the point where it can be considered conscious, human life, abortion is no longer legal except where the mother's life is at stake (ergo, choosing one life or the other is sadly necessary).
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macneill
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Post by macneill on May 19, 2010 17:18:17 GMT -5
It is a well known fact that we as a society measure death with the cessation of electroencephalographic waves. By this logic, one would assume that life would be measured by the same thing, seeing as it's end is measured equally. And, as I'm sure you already know, electroencephalographic waves begin to emit from the human brain as early as 5 - 6 weeks into the development of an unborn child. This is less than half way through the first trimester. Even by the standards not held by myself personally, this being is very much a human one.
My argument was by no means a straw man. If the pro choice movement refuses to believe one of the aspects of my argument, that does not invalidate my argument, it makes them ignorant. Their ignorance does not constitute a logical fallacy on my behalf. (There must be some kind of logical fallacy pertaining to pointing out false fallacies...). I argued that the first trimester embryo was in fact human. (Not to be rude, but do you know what a straw man is?)
To reiterate one of my previous points, at the point of conception, we as human beings carry the human genome. We are nothing other than human at any points in our natural lives, from conception until our death.
Also, a point of clarification, when you said that "abortion is no longer legal except where the mother's life is at stake", what were you referencing?
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Post by thequirkyduo on May 19, 2010 19:13:13 GMT -5
Abortion should be LEGAL. I have a big problem with trying to force women to carry babies. First of all, even with protection there can be mistakes, and a woman should not be forced to carry a child that she does not want or is not prepared to have. The adoption and foster care system is lacking as is, and forcing every pregnancy to come to term would put a LOT of strain on the system. Also, no matter what you do there are going to be people seeking abortion. Even if its illegal. You do not want all of those young girls seeking an answer from anyone but a doctor. And what about girls who are impregnated by rape? Do you really think that a woman impregnated by such a hateful act should be forced to carry her attacker's child!?! I DO NOT understand how anyone could oppose it.
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Post by swan on May 19, 2010 20:08:30 GMT -5
electroencephalographic waves begin to emit from the human brain as early as 5 - 6 weeks into the development of an unborn child. I think this no doubt means that the embryo is alive, but I don't believe that means it is "human". I mean it certainly is biologically speaking, but there's more to being human then simply having a set of human genes. Think of a car-crash victim who is essentially a brain-dead vegetable, they may be alive and they may have a completely normal human body (car crash related brain damage aside), but they are incapable of truly "living". And although each individual on the planet may have a unique definition of what "living" is, I can say with a large amount of confidence that none of those definitions involves lying brain dead in a hospital being incapable of worthwhile thought. I should clarify that I am not trying to argue about the morality associated with either this situation or abortion, but I am arguing that there is more to being human then having a heartbeat or neurons that can fire. As for rape, I will agree that, morally speaking, two wrongs don't make a right, but if a woman is impregnated through rape and she cannot support the child either financially or emotionally she has no obligation to bring the child into the world and should be able to consider abortion as an option.
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Post by standalone3 on May 19, 2010 21:11:04 GMT -5
I think that there is a lot of debate, even in my own brain about this subject, and even though I'm a devout follower of Christianity, I believe that it's wrong in certain respects, but if someone is raped, as it has been brought up, then I don't think the woman is responsible for a very bad man's child that could grow up with the same tendencies. As always I believe that adoption is a better option, but if it is a weak woman who wouldn't be able to safely make it through childbirth, then I believe abortion is a possibility, but I'm all for avoiding it at all costs, until it comes down to making the right decision based on all the factors.
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sarahhsuee
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Post by sarahhsuee on May 20, 2010 17:57:58 GMT -5
...I believe that it's wrong in certain respects, but if someone is raped, as it has been brought up, then I don't think the woman is responsible for a very bad man's child that could grow up with the same tendencies. As always I believe that adoption is a better option, but if it is a weak woman who wouldn't be able to safely make it through childbirth, then I believe abortion is a possibility, but I'm all for avoiding it at all costs, until it comes down to making the right decision based on all the factors. I strongly disagree with your idea that child could grow up with the same tendencies as the dude. Even I'm a perfectly good example that blood doesn't affect who you'll grow up to be. And there's plenty of other proof supporting that your genetic background doesn't have that kind of effect. Legit mental disorders? Possibly genetic. But with anything else, blood doesn't matter. It's the environment and other influences that you grow up in. However, I do agree with the rest of your thing. Just not that one part.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on May 21, 2010 23:28:30 GMT -5
I am not going to take sides on this, but i would like anyone has not already done this to google images of "aborted fetuses." Im warning you - It is graphic.
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Post by knightofarboria on May 24, 2010 20:40:11 GMT -5
It's always been my belief that everything should have a shot at life, and I personally wouldn't like to make exceptions here. I would prefer if abortion were illegal, except in cases where the woman was raped, or if the birth of the child would subsequently put the mother's life at risk; otherwise, the child should be put up for adoption.
However, more realistically, abortion would remain legal, mainly for reasons already stated in this thread; just because something's illegal, doesn't mean people aren't going to do it (even without the proper tools or training).
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