rcn927
Meteor
Proud to be a Nerd
Posts: 57
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Post by rcn927 on Apr 26, 2010 21:25:05 GMT -5
i think abortions, unless there is a clear medical reason for it, are just a petulant way of not having to take responsibility for your actions. what about in the case of rape? This is Dan's point I'm restating: Well, maybe, rather than bickering about whether the abortion is okay, we should be putting that effort to trying to reduce the amount of rape in the world..
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 26, 2010 21:52:41 GMT -5
Eradicating rape is impossible. period. You can't control how a person's mind works and prevent them from wanting to rape someone. And even if it were possible, it would take a LONG time. We can't wait for a solution to rape and in the mean time tell rape victims to suck it up and have the child.
Also, I'm totally against the whole "abortion should be outlawed except for in the case of rape" argument because 1.) rape victims usually don't report the rape, at least not right away. And if they waited until they were pregnant to claim that they were raped, there would be no evidence. And 2.) If we allowed people to get abortions because they SAID they were raped, without having evidence, then it could be easily abused.
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Post by krzych32 on Apr 27, 2010 0:32:38 GMT -5
Chelsea, and I am sick and tired of using rape as an excuse for every abortion. It's like that side of the table does not have any real arguments so they go after the only situation that makes it seem ok, but in reality is a very small fraction of the whole situation. I can argue for every evil in the same way, find one instance that makes it all right to do it all the time. Maybe Hitler should not have killed those jews, but what if there was a jewish rapist somewhere in Germany getting ready to rape innocent germany girls...wait, cross that one out,.....children. Well, I guess Hitler was right after all, we have to remember that he had no way of knowing with one of the jews would turn out to be rapists, so killing all of them was the next best thing. What many people are doing here, and most likely are not realizing they are doing it is they play with others feelings. Not presenting any logical argument. Did you know that only 4.7% of rape victims end up getting pregnant. Did you also know that only 75 to 85 percent of those people choose to have an abortion. Human life, must be held to a higher standard, and not just be an iteam that one can scrap oway if it does not give them any profit. it's like people are blind to the fact that "THEY ARE KILLING A FUCKING BABY!" And the ideology here is that if we all agree that it's ok, that makes it ok. Someone please present me with one valid argument, and don't make it into some kind of a sci-fi story the like "The mother has nothing to eat, if she gives birth the baby will surely die.". Just give me a straight forward argument, why abortion should be legal, and at the beginning of the argument just add "it's ok to kill an unborn baby because...."
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 27, 2010 1:59:29 GMT -5
in my opinion abortion should be illegal except in cases where the woman's life is in danger because of the pregnancy, or in cases of rape. how would you control that you say? a police report would have to be filed with full rape kit forensics taken, and all that stuffness. there is definitely need for abortion, and anyone who wants to ban it completely is ridiculous, but it should be heavily HEAVILY regulated. people have to learn responsibility and accountability. as for the excuse "improper sex ed" please! give me a break! so for the past thousands whatever years people who wanted to have sex had to go to the library and get a book on the subject?!? no! its a hard wired biological instinct and urge, included in which is what goes where and what happens afterwards. the reason we DO have so much confusion is BECAUSE of this stork bullshit parents spew! if parents would stop lying to their kids, we wouldnt even NEED sex ed...but thats another subject. lack of proper sex ed is a completely invalid excuse. as for condoms breaking, if you know to use a condom, you know they can break. get the pill. get plan B. there is no excuse for abortion.
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 4:32:45 GMT -5
What many people are doing here, and most likely are not realizing they are doing it is they play with others feelings. ...it's like people are blind to the fact that "THEY ARE KILLING A FUCKING BABY!" I lol'd. You realize that that's what you're doing, right? Your whole argument is "How could you be okay with someone killing a baby?!?" When you word it like that, yeah, it sounds bad. But you have no actual logic in your argument. You're not killing a baby.. it's an embryo. It's not human. I see nothing morally wrong with abortion because an embryo has, at most, the potential to be human. Does that merit it deserving the chance to continue to grow into a human? No! All sperm and eggs have the potential to be human. If you argue that the potential to be human warrants being allowed to grow into a human, then you should put ALL of your sperm/eggs to use making babies. asher, I agree that people need to be more responsible, but you can't force them to have safer sex practices by outlawing abortion. No one wants to have to have an abortion. You people act like people go around with the mentality of, "I don't need to use protection; if I get pregnant, I can just get an abortion!" NO ONE has that mentality.
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 27, 2010 4:38:00 GMT -5
and that is where you are wrong Chelsea. i can guarantee you that were it illegal to have an abortion people would be less carefree about their choices. now they don't have to be because they always have what to fall back on. they may not want to, and it may not be a fully conscious thought of "oh, ill screw this guy now and then just have an abortion" bit it has a presence there in the back of her mind. the knowledge that she has a safety net that will allow her to justify her doing certain things that were abortions illegal, she would not do. as for your sperm and eggs policy, i can see a difference between the potential of a fetus/embryo and that of sperm and eggs. its the same difference in potential of a pile of bricks and a semi-constructed house. but that's a separate issue
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 4:56:34 GMT -5
"in the back of her mind" eh? That's another thing.. it would force WOMEN to be responsible, but men could continue to be as careless about their sex lives as they please. They could still get a girl pregnant and just take off because they don't want to deal with it, but the girl can't. 80% of guys leave after getting a girl pregnant outside of marriage. Why should a woman have to be responsible if a man doesn't? Also, if you think that women think "I can always just get an abortion," then what would stop this from simply becoming "I can always just put it up for adoption?" It's not more responsible to get pregnant and put it up for adoption than it is to get pregnant and get an abortion.
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 27, 2010 5:03:18 GMT -5
legally the father is obligated to pay for his children, at least child support, so it is just as convenient for him as it is for her. i am well aware that many fathers dont pay, but they always have that spectre over their heads, so yeah it serves the men as well as the women.
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 5:23:37 GMT -5
HAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah... legally obligated to pay child support... That makes a difference... And even if a teenage boy who isn't responsible enough to wear a condom WERE responsible enough to pay child support, that's not a good enough substitution for having an actual father. Plus, all of the time and energy that goes into raising a child (especially on your own) can't be repaid by any monetary amount. So no, it's not fair by any means.
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 27, 2010 10:58:53 GMT -5
no its not a proper substitute. so youre saying that if a child can't grow up in an optimal home that child should be aborted? thats ridiculous, by that logic abortion should be mandatory...
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Post by krzych32 on Apr 27, 2010 12:40:33 GMT -5
Chelsea, do you realize that abortion is legal up to 24 weeks or 6 months? Even fallowing your logic, embroy is still a living thing, that will become a person just adds to the insult. No one should have a right to choose who will live and who will die.
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 13:51:28 GMT -5
no its not a proper substitute. so youre saying that if a child can't grow up in an optimal home that child should be aborted? thats ridiculous, by that logic abortion should be mandatory... My point wasn't about the conditions for the child.. it was about women's rights. If men don't need to hold any responsibility for teir actions, women shouldn't need to either.
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Post by krzych32 on Apr 27, 2010 14:12:39 GMT -5
Chelsea, but no one here is arguing that man should not be held responsible.
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 14:33:48 GMT -5
Chelsea, but no one here is arguing that man should not be held responsible. Asher's argument was basically "If girls are going to be sluts, they need to be held responsible." Oh, and FYI, abortion used to be illegal.. But women still got them, just in unsafe conditions which usually ended up harming them, too. But the rate of abortion didn't really change much between when it was illegal and now that it's legal. So no, it wouldn't really discourage people from having unsafe sex.
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Post by krzych32 on Apr 27, 2010 14:55:18 GMT -5
"But the rate of abortion didn't really change much between when it was illegal and now that it's legal. So no, it wouldn't really discourage people from having unsafe sex."
Can you give me your source?
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 15:29:34 GMT -5
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 27, 2010 17:41:53 GMT -5
Chelsea, but no one here is arguing that man should not be held responsible. Asher's argument was basically "If girls are going to be sluts, they need to be held responsible." Oh, and FYI, abortion used to be illegal.. But women still got them, just in unsafe conditions which usually ended up harming them, too. But the rate of abortion didn't really change much between when it was illegal and now that it's legal. So no, it wouldn't really discourage people from having unsafe sex. by that logic heroine should be legal as well...its illegal now, and yet people still do it unsafely. hmm...i shudder at the thought of the world ruled by chelsea
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2010 17:47:55 GMT -5
Asher's argument was basically "If girls are going to be sluts, they need to be held responsible." Oh, and FYI, abortion used to be illegal.. But women still got them, just in unsafe conditions which usually ended up harming them, too. But the rate of abortion didn't really change much between when it was illegal and now that it's legal. So no, it wouldn't really discourage people from having unsafe sex. by that logic heroine should be legal as well...its illegal now, and yet people still do it unsafely. hmm...i shudder at the thought of the world ruled by chelsea Just passing by, nothing to see here...
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Post by chelseeyuh on Apr 27, 2010 20:32:21 GMT -5
by that logic heroine should be legal as well...its illegal now, and yet people still do it unsafely. hmm...i shudder at the thought of the world ruled by chelsea Just passing by, nothing to see here... Hmm.. not such a bad idea.. But regardless of that, you can't compare outlawing drugs to outlawing abortions because most people don't try hard drugs, whereas pretty much everyone has sex. With drugs, it's a definitive "don't do drugs," but with sex, it's not "don't have sex." It's more like, "don't have sex which would result in your needing to get an abortion," which isn't exactly the most precise direction you can give a person. Most people that have abortions ARE on some sort of birth control. There's not much else you can do to prevent pregnancy than that..
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 27, 2010 20:39:26 GMT -5
everybody takes medicine, that doesnt mean everyone should take heroine its teh exact same thing. there are things you do, and there is also responsibility.
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