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Post by flyingmoosestudios on Apr 14, 2010 9:28:27 GMT -5
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Post by Jake on Apr 14, 2010 10:02:50 GMT -5
You may want to sum up the video in your post. Whereas I have 7 minutes of time to watch the video - others may not so you might want to summarize it! Or if you don't have time, I can do it for you?
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Post by Trey on Apr 14, 2010 11:24:59 GMT -5
I thought the bible said God loves everyone! Lol, the peeps who say, "God Hates fags" are loony. They're worse than creationists
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Post by Ryan on Apr 14, 2010 12:42:23 GMT -5
People say God hates cigarettes?
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AGaW
Moon
Why is everyone dancing? PANIC!
Posts: 104
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Post by AGaW on Apr 14, 2010 13:37:45 GMT -5
Regardless of whether "God hates X" or not, saying that God could "hate" something is first of all, wrong.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Apr 14, 2010 13:52:48 GMT -5
Summary of the video:
- God tells us to love everyone, even our enemies, therefore God loves everyone, even homosexuals - The phrasing in Leviticus shows that God hates the act of homosexual sex, but not the people who perform it (much like you hate when your dog craps in the living room, but you don't hate your dog).
I've seen better arguments than this one (ones that don't imply that God hates the homosexual act), but I'll give the vlogger credit for studying the issue and coming to his own conclusions.
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Post by Lex on Apr 14, 2010 15:40:42 GMT -5
Summary of the video: - God tells us to love everyone, even our enemies, therefore God loves everyone, even homosexuals - The phrasing in Leviticus shows that God hates the act of homosexual sex, but not the people who perform it (much like you hate when your dog craps in the living room, but you don't hate your dog). I've seen better arguments than this one (ones that don't imply that God hates the homosexual act), but I'll give the vlogger credit for studying the issue and coming to his own conclusions. Other than crazy people, who still follows Leviticus to a T anyway?
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imtwenty
Meteor
Can I put anything here and it will go underneath my name everywhere?
Posts: 73
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Post by imtwenty on Apr 15, 2010 7:36:05 GMT -5
I read a book about Gay Synagogue in NY. The congregation believed the lines in Leviticus meant "It is wrong for someone who is gay to sleep with someone who is straight or someone who is straight to sleep with someone who is gay." It was about honesty and openness.
Also Leviticus says you shouldn't mix cotton and wool. or cotton and any other material. I am pretty sure everyone owns some blended fabrics.
I bet Fred Phelps does.
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evets
Meteorite
Posts: 42
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Post by evets on Apr 16, 2010 0:13:47 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I don't mean this to be preaching at anyone, I'm merely explaining what Christians actually believe.
Good video, I watched the whole thing. Speaking as a christian, I have to agree with the guy's basic point. Although his proof-texting and oversimplifying made me cringe, his point is basically correct. According to Christian teaching, God doesn't hate homosexuals, and neither should we. For most Christians, this is stupidly obvious, it's like "duh, the bible says to love everyone." It's like, soon after you become a Christian, this becomes so painfully obvious. You realize that God loves you enough to forgive you, then the next logical step is found in 1 John 4:11, "Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought to love one another."
The rest of that book (1 John) makes it pretty clear than anyone who does NOT show that kind of love towards others is obviously not a Christian. You could say to love one another is supposed to be the mark of a Christian. Yes, sometimes we fail to love properly, but this is the ideal we're striving for. People who promote hate towards homosexuals are simply NOT Christians, or at least, not acting like it. At the same time, we firmly believe that the act of homosexuality is wrong. On the other hand, so what? Everyone has some sin or another that needs forgiving, nobody's perfect. Christians shouldn't act morally superior and simply condemn homosexuals for "living in sin" (remember I'm speaking to myself here too). We Christians have sinned to, after all, part of the core of our beliefs is that everyone has sinned and is in need of forgiveness. Therefore, there's no reason to think we're better off than anyone else because our sin is "not as bad."
It pains me so much when people talk about how much Christians supposedly hate homosexuals, when people like me desire exactly the opposite: these are the people we are supposed to love, if they are living in sin, we are to love them more, not condemn them and act superior. And yet the myth is promoted, and it only serves to alienate the very people we are supposed to be befriending. It makes it hard to reach out, y'know?
Finally, if you are a homosexual, and have been the victim of hatred at the hand of a Christian, I apologize on behalf of my brother or sister in Christ, and I beg forgiveness. We may suck sometimes at this whole "love your enemies" thing, but know that Christ loves you more than any human ever could.
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Post by Ryan on Apr 16, 2010 0:23:31 GMT -5
'act of homosexuality' - this is poorly defined and so many Christians take this to mean the act of simply being a homosexual - and nowhere in the bible, I will repeat, NOWHERE does it say that being a homosexual (being physically attracted to the same sex) is wrong. It only speaks against the act of homosexual intercourse.
If you're going to say that the act of homosexuality is wrong, you should definitely clarify that it's just the sex part - because being who you were born as is never wrong.
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RabbitWho
Star
Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 16, 2010 7:40:20 GMT -5
We have a 50 year old copy of the bible at home and in Leviticus it says that any man who discovers the nakedness of another man is an abomination in the eyes of god [..list of other things that are not liked...] and he should be put to death and his blood will be on his own hands. .
So not only does it say it's wrong to know the body of another man it also says that Christians have the right to kill you if you do so. No mention of women but in school we were told that every time the bible said "Men" they meant "Men and Women" so we asked what it meant when it said "women" and they said "..... only women."
The old testament is all about hate vengeance and shame. It is a piece of filth and it has directly contributed to the deaths of countless people.
It also says in Leviticus that we shouldn't eat shellfish but you'll notice we don't have any hateful slurs for people who eat shellfish nor do we have websites called "God hates selfish eaters" or "All shellfish eaters go to hell" So gay bashers are not doing Gods work they are doing the part of it they find the most fun for them because of the people they personally hate a lot. It also says that women should be kept away from other people while they're "having their flowers" (period) because they are unclean.
Anyway the new testament (excluding revelations) is generally positive and about love. And Jesus only ever said nice things that most of us can agree with. He contradicted the stuff in the old testament, said we have to love each other, love sinners even more than pure people, forgive, be nice, be kind even when it means giving up everything we have... He was pretty awesome and I wish more "Christians" gave a crap about "Christ"
Jesus never even mentioned homosexuals. He just said love love love.
Anyway i hate it all, it's all to easily abused and manipulated and people hide behind it. (religion that is) No one would have any power if they said "I hate gay people!" But with the weight of this 500 year old book behind them they can do a lot of damage. "God hates gay people" is a lot more powerful than "I hate gay people"
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Post by Ryan on Apr 16, 2010 13:32:42 GMT -5
In the context of Leviticus the word 'know' (especially when referring to the body of another) is to have taken part in the act of intercourse. Look up the archaic definition of the word.
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Post by andrea1994barney on Apr 16, 2010 15:02:07 GMT -5
We have a 50 year old copy of the bible at home and in Leviticus it says that any man who discovers the nakedness of another man is an abomination in the eyes of god [..list of other things that are not liked...] and he should be put to death and his blood will be on his own hands. . So not only does it say it's wrong to know the body of another man it also says that Christians have the right to kill you if you do so. No mention of women but in school we were told that every time the bible said "Men" they meant "Men and Women" so we asked what it meant when it said "women" and they said "..... only women." The old testament is all about hate vengeance and shame. It is a piece of filth and it has directly contributed to the deaths of countless people. It also says in Leviticus that we shouldn't eat shellfish but you'll notice we don't have any hateful slurs for people who eat shellfish nor do we have websites called "God hates selfish eaters" or "All shellfish eaters go to hell" So gay bashers are not doing Gods work they are doing the part of it they find the most fun for them because of the people they personally hate a lot. It also says that women should be kept away from other people while they're "having their flowers" (period) because they are unclean. Anyway the new testament (excluding revelations) is generally positive and about love. And Jesus only ever said nice things that most of us can agree with. He contradicted the stuff in the old testament, said we have to love each other, love sinners even more than pure people, forgive, be nice, be kind even when it means giving up everything we have... He was pretty awesome and I wish more "Christians" gave a crap about "Christ" Jesus never even mentioned homosexuals. He just said love love love. Anyway i hate it all, it's all to easily abused and manipulated and people hide behind it. (religion that is) No one would have any power if they said "I hate gay people!" But with the weight of this 500 year old book behind them they can do a lot of damage. "God hates gay people" is a lot more powerful than "I hate gay people" The reason the Old Testament is contradicted by the New testament is because Jesus came and everything changed.
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Post by Johncoyne on Apr 16, 2010 15:40:08 GMT -5
Don't hate the person, hate the sin.
Don't take that literally. But, if someone murders someone else, don't hate the person, hate the fact that they killed someone else. If you (for some reason) dislike homosexuality, don't hate the person, hate the fact that they're gay.
By hate, I mean dislike. Hate is bad, especially when referring to hate based off of prejudice. But if you hate homosexuals, change that to: I hate homosexuality.
I have nothing against homosexuality, but if everyone looked at things from this perspective, the world would be awesomer.
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mollybeth92
Meteorite
On hiatus... Indefinitely.
Posts: 38
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Post by mollybeth92 on Apr 16, 2010 15:45:25 GMT -5
My internet is being stupid, so I can't watch the video. I can, however, tell you my opinion on Homosexuals vs. Christians. I am a Christian. I love God. I also, however care a lot about some people that happen to like the same sex. I see no problem with it. Even if I did, it wouldn't matter. In the end, God's opinion of you is the only one that matters. He does tell us to love everyone and I don't think He meant "Love everyone.. Except the gays." God wants what's best for us and I think that in His opinion, what's best for us is to be in relationships that allow us to pass on our lineage. I know this may sound kind of bad but I hardly even refer to the Old Testament anymore. After I read it the first time, I found it to be hateful and cruel and I didn't like it. The New Testament is more my style. =]
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fletcherblack
Meteorite
I'm for whatever you're against and against whatever you're for.
Posts: 13
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Post by fletcherblack on Apr 20, 2010 22:29:44 GMT -5
I have a favorite quote by my good friend Bo Burnham, who created a rap about Catholicism, and the line I'm referring to goes something like this, "Dear God, dear Lord, dear vague muscular man with a beard or a sword... The blue-balled anti-masturbator, the great all loving faggot-hater." which I think kinda strikes the nail on the head, yes?
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fletcherblack
Meteorite
I'm for whatever you're against and against whatever you're for.
Posts: 13
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Post by fletcherblack on Apr 20, 2010 22:31:16 GMT -5
We have a 50 year old copy of the bible at home and in Leviticus it says that any man who discovers the nakedness of another man is an abomination in the eyes of god [..list of other things that are not liked...] and he should be put to death and his blood will be on his own hands. . So not only does it say it's wrong to know the body of another man it also says that Christians have the right to kill you if you do so. No mention of women but in school we were told that every time the bible said "Men" they meant "Men and Women" so we asked what it meant when it said "women" and they said "..... only women." The old testament is all about hate vengeance and shame. It is a piece of filth and it has directly contributed to the deaths of countless people. It also says in Leviticus that we shouldn't eat shellfish but you'll notice we don't have any hateful slurs for people who eat shellfish nor do we have websites called "God hates selfish eaters" or "All shellfish eaters go to hell" So gay bashers are not doing Gods work they are doing the part of it they find the most fun for them because of the people they personally hate a lot. It also says that women should be kept away from other people while they're "having their flowers" (period) because they are unclean. Anyway the new testament (excluding revelations) is generally positive and about love. And Jesus only ever said nice things that most of us can agree with. He contradicted the stuff in the old testament, said we have to love each other, love sinners even more than pure people, forgive, be nice, be kind even when it means giving up everything we have... He was pretty awesome and I wish more "Christians" gave a crap about "Christ" Jesus never even mentioned homosexuals. He just said love love love. Anyway i hate it all, it's all to easily abused and manipulated and people hide behind it. (religion that is) No one would have any power if they said "I hate gay people!" But with the weight of this 500 year old book behind them they can do a lot of damage. "God hates gay people" is a lot more powerful than "I hate gay people" The reason the Old Testament is contradicted by the New testament is because Jesus came and everything changed. Not necessarily true, in Matthew chapter 5 verses 17-19, Jesus tells us that everything in the old testament still applies, and will apply until judgment day, the apocalypse, what have you.
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koralth
Meteorite
Rest is for the dead.
Posts: 44
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Post by koralth on Apr 21, 2010 0:06:20 GMT -5
Frankly, I agree with RabbitWho, (Edit - where he says the bible can be used for anything and is a potentially VERY dangerous tool)but that's not about to convince the people who take the bible to be true, et cetera. I think a perfectly valid argument is the fact that - hey, I don't think the people who were alive at the time the bible (old or new testament) had the same definition of homosexuality as we do. Any time I hear a biblical passage referenced to condemn homosexuality, it references the nookie. "A man who lieth with a man" et al. is all about the sex, it says nothing about, "a man who courts a man as he courteth a woman" or anything to that extent. Sodom and Gomorrah is all about a bunch of selfish rapists. Again, not exactly the vision the gay community exudes today. In Romans, they reference that men and women will give up each other for unbridled lust. Well, unbridled lust is hardly relationship material. The bible focuses on flings. I don't think the bible held heterosexual 'flings' in high regards, either.
The story of David and Jonathan seems to be a story about the prototypical gay couple. I don't think we need to get into, "Did they DO it!?" because it's totally superfluous. The point is - they loved each other deeply, much more deeply than the average pair of best friends. This love does not seem to be condemned, but revered in the bible. Something to consider, that's all.
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Post by Jake on Apr 21, 2010 14:06:02 GMT -5
I think that it's not just important to make being homosexual seen as acceptable, but also to not have the assumption that is made by many people that most Christians hate gays. Oh, and flyingmoosestudios, are you the guy who made the video? Because I now love your videos!
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FranticProdigy
Planet
[AWD:1c]
Im classy because I use words like touch
Posts: 312
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 16:05:51 GMT -5
Go out get your damn bible, come back here, turn to Leviticus 18:22 read it, and tell me god loves homosexuals. You won't be able to.
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