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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 16:22:52 GMT -5
Go out get your damn bible, come back here, turn to Leviticus 18:22 read it, and tell me god loves homosexuals. You won't be able to. I think the point that was trying to be made was that Christians disregard Levitical law, as it was part of the old covenant that was discarded with the arrival of the messiah. Christians believe that Jesus was the messiah, and so they have no need to follow Levitical law (otherwise, they'd be Jewish - and even then, it's pretty hard to find a Jew who follows every Levitical law).
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 16:24:27 GMT -5
Go out get your damn bible, come back here, turn to Leviticus 18:22 read it, and tell me god loves homosexuals. You won't be able to. I think the point that was trying to be made was that Christians disregard Levitical law, as it was part of the old covenant that was discarded with the arrival of the messiah. Christians believe that Jesus was the messiah, and so they have no need to follow Levitical law (otherwise, they'd be Jewish - and even then, it's pretty hard to find a Jew who follows every Levitical law). They don't disregard it, REAL Christians look at the bible as the infallible word of god?
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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 16:30:44 GMT -5
I think the point that was trying to be made was that Christians disregard Levitical law, as it was part of the old covenant that was discarded with the arrival of the messiah. Christians believe that Jesus was the messiah, and so they have no need to follow Levitical law (otherwise, they'd be Jewish - and even then, it's pretty hard to find a Jew who follows every Levitical law). They don't disregard it, REAL Christians look at the bible as the infallible word of god? You're missing the point. Those specific laws of the Old Testament were there in place until the arrival of the messiah. Christians believe that Jesus was the messiah, therefore they believe that God says they are no longer relevant.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 16:39:57 GMT -5
So everything in the old testament is invalid. Revelation 22:25 ?
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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 16:43:47 GMT -5
So everything in the old testament is invalid. Revelation 22:25 ? Revelation 22:25 is an invalid verse. Revelation ends at verse 21. Anyways, Revelation is in the New Testament, not the old.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 16:55:27 GMT -5
So everything in the old testament is invalid. Revelation 22:25 ? Revelation 22:25 is an invalid verse. Revelation ends at verse 21. Anyways, Revelation is in the New Testament, not the old. Right, you discredited the old testament so I went to the new testament because you said everything after the messiah did not apply. There is a verse revelation 22:25, I assure you.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 16:56:43 GMT -5
Revelation 22:25 is an invalid verse. Revelation ends at verse 21. Anyways, Revelation is in the New Testament, not the old. Right, you discredited the old testament so I went to the new testament because you said everything after the messiah did not apply. I misread, it is Revelation 22:15.
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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 17:28:31 GMT -5
Revelation 22:25 is an invalid verse. Revelation ends at verse 21. Anyways, Revelation is in the New Testament, not the old. Right, you discredited the old testament so I went to the new testament because you said everything after the messiah did not apply. There is a verse revelation 22:25, I assure you. I meant that Christians and most Jews believe that after the Messiah's arrival, the Levitical laws do not apply. Since Christians believe that the Messiah has already come, they disregard Leviticus.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 17:36:55 GMT -5
Revelation 22:15. New Testament. After the messiah. God hates homosexuals.
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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 17:48:25 GMT -5
"Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Has nothing to do with homosexuality whatsoever. And remember, this isn't spoken by God, so it has little credibility to carefully examining Christians, and it definitely doesn't say that God hates anyone.
Stop putting words into the mouths of the faithful. You're an atheist, why the hell would you care anyway?
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koralth
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Post by koralth on Apr 21, 2010 18:29:42 GMT -5
Atheist here, but I'll try to handle your passages with care. I agree, the revelations passage seems totally irrelevant. Who's to say that the sexually immoral aren't rapists/pedophiles or the sort? the only reference I've heard that has any slight bearing on the situation from the new testament seems to come from Romans I: 26-27 (hope that's cited correctly), and it references unyielding lust, not the relationship-based type of love the gay community is more commonly known for today, so... I'd argue once again, that the passage has no bearing on a modern homosexual couple.
Sorry, Frantic, I'm a nonbeliever just like you, but not because I hate God OR the religious teachings in the bible, but because I disbelieve, and hating something you disbelieve in makes no sense.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 18:51:42 GMT -5
Atheist here, but I'll try to handle your passages with care. I agree, the revelations passage seems totally irrelevant. Who's to say that the sexually immoral aren't rapists/pedophiles or the sort? the only reference I've heard that has any slight bearing on the situation from the new testament seems to come from Romans I: 26-27 (hope that's cited correctly), and it references unyielding lust, not the relationship-based type of love the gay community is more commonly known for today, so... I'd argue once again, that the passage has no bearing on a modern homosexual couple. Sorry, Frantic, I'm a nonbeliever just like you, but not because I hate God OR the religious teachings in the bible, but because I disbelieve, and hating something you disbelieve in makes no sense. How does something you disbelieve in make no sense. If you don't agree with it, isn't it okay to dislike it? Your an atheist for the wrong reasons. Why did you bring hatred into this?
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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 18:58:09 GMT -5
How does something you disbelieve in make no sense. If you don't agree with it, isn't it okay to dislike it? Your an atheist for the wrong reasons. Why did you bring hatred into this? You say that koralth is an atheist for the wrong reasons because he said that he isn't an atheist because of hatred? So, by your logic, all atheists should hate religion? That's anti-theism, bud - it's entirely different. Get back on topic.
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mollybeth92
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Post by mollybeth92 on Apr 21, 2010 19:25:58 GMT -5
Go out get your damn bible, come back here, turn to Leviticus 18:22 read it, and tell me god loves homosexuals. You won't be able to. Nobody said God loves homosexuals. It's my honest opinion that as Christians, it is our place to love everyone, even if they are gay. God is the one that gets to decide which of us lived a Christian life. We don't have the authority to judge others even if what they practice isn't something we agree with.
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koralth
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Post by koralth on Apr 21, 2010 19:38:37 GMT -5
Frantic, you misunderstand me. About HALF the Christians I know and have met are total whack jobs. Being gay, and having what was then a close personal friend threaten me with a knife because I just JOKED about being gay was possibly the most horrifying experience of my life. Needless to say, I never went to his house again. I hate people like that, but I can't hold it against all Christians. My folks are both devout, and they accept me just fine. I've got close friends who are Christians and don't give two shirts about my sexuality. It's not a problem with the religion itself, though religion does lend itself to being misused. It's a problem with the people at the helm of various churches, with the goals and intentions of these religious sects. It's about education and willingness to accept new ideas. The problem here, Frantic, is dogmatism vs. philosophy, and an atheist can become just as dogmatic in his or her beliefs as a theist. An atheist can just as easily forget that theists are people too, with their own rather more unique ideologies. I take no issue with religion, man. I take issue with people who enforce their religion on me and mine. I take issue with people who enforce their religion on the government. I take issue, too, though, with people who attempt to devalue the religious beliefs of others on false premises. I value the freedom of religion deeply, and I hope that one day the freedom of religion will be fully recognized and that there won't be state laws legislating that an atheist cannot take public office or stand jury, but I recognize that not all Christians are aware of or support such legislation. That's all.
*looks up at block of text* That's all.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 19:53:10 GMT -5
Go out get your damn bible, come back here, turn to Leviticus 18:22 read it, and tell me god loves homosexuals. You won't be able to. Nobody said God loves homosexuals. It's my honest opinion that as Christians, it is our place to love everyone, even if they are gay. God is the one that gets to decide which of us lived a Christian life. We don't have the authority to judge others even if what they practice isn't something we agree with. Why didn't he create a bunch of good little Christians..?
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 19:54:07 GMT -5
How does something you disbelieve in make no sense. If you don't agree with it, isn't it okay to dislike it? Your an atheist for the wrong reasons. Why did you bring hatred into this? You say that koralth is an atheist for the wrong reasons because he said that he isn't an atheist because of hatred? So, by your logic, all atheists should hate religion? That's anti-theism, bud - it's entirely different. Get back on topic. Anti-theism is very similar to atheism. They're contradicting beliefs with religion. I am on topic.
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FranticProdigy
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Post by FranticProdigy on Apr 21, 2010 19:54:36 GMT -5
Im really not looking for a religious discussion.
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Post by Lex on Apr 21, 2010 20:04:26 GMT -5
Im really not looking for a religious discussion. Then why do you repeatedly post about it? If you really didn't want a religious discussion, you'd drop the subject. Your posts are close-minded, intolerant and annoying. I've corrected and explained things to you, yet you troll on about "Why didn't he create a bunch of good little Christians..?" in a belittling fashion. You are no better than any other user on here because of your religious differences. Stop acting like it.
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mollybeth92
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Post by mollybeth92 on Apr 21, 2010 20:05:47 GMT -5
Nobody said God loves homosexuals. It's my honest opinion that as Christians, it is our place to love everyone, even if they are gay. God is the one that gets to decide which of us lived a Christian life. We don't have the authority to judge others even if what they practice isn't something we agree with. Why didn't he create a bunch of good little Christians..? God gives us a thing called free will. He doesn't want to control every aspect of our lives; he wants us to be good because we want to, not because he's making us.
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