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Post by banditnator on Mar 5, 2010 2:12:16 GMT -5
I'm really starting to love the people on this forum its 90% yes
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Philosoraptor
Moon
dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
Posts: 145
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Post by Philosoraptor on Mar 5, 2010 6:37:11 GMT -5
It is absolutely bigoted to try to decide which kinds of people are allowed to marry and which do not have that privilege. I understand that that's what your holy book says, but that absolutely doesn't mean you can go around trying to enforce your specific religion's doctrine on perfectly decent people who just want the same opportunities as other people.
There's no positive word for that.
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Post by Ricky on Mar 5, 2010 7:41:34 GMT -5
Ok here is something I don't get. Government outlaws things because they cause harm to an individual or many. Stealing, Murder, gun control laws, even Civil laws are made so we don't mess with one another. How does two people marrying affect anyone, regardless of whether those people happen to be two men, or two women. Why would that be outlawed??
I'm honestly asking because i just don't get it...
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 5, 2010 9:39:31 GMT -5
Whoever said NO has no heart and is an evil person with no soul. No, that is not it. There are allowed to be people that hate it. This is a debate. If there was a true right answer, then it wouldn't be much of a debate. It would be like Who here hate's global warming? GLOBAL WARMING!. BOO!!! Instead, you should be asking WHY they have chosen no instead of calling them heartless. There is a plethora of people in this world and it is very interesting to hear what they have to say. That's the whole point of an opinion.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 5, 2010 9:42:54 GMT -5
Insane_Zang, I really would like to hear more on your opinion. You said that you believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. Why do you say this? Who says this and where do they say this? Or are you just listening to what your parents, friends, pastors, have told you and not actually looking up what you believe in. <--- this line was not meant to be an attack on your religion. I am truely interested.
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bleabot
Moon
Set phazors to dance, Mr. Warf.
Posts: 109
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Post by bleabot on Mar 5, 2010 12:07:14 GMT -5
Being raised Christian, I have a predisposition to say they shouldn't be married. That, though, is my belief (and not even that...it's more of a feeling, something that I've grown up with, than anything else). Gays being married doesn't affect me positively or negatively in any way I can think of. In fact, it really doesn't affect anyone at all. Why should I care what they do? Why should my opinion be extended to other people of different creeds? It makes no sense.
In short, I'm saying that my beliefs don't matter in a situation like this. They have every right to do what they want. Go get married, and more power to you!
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Post by Lex on Mar 5, 2010 13:26:28 GMT -5
God never says anything in the bible about gays getting married. it's all about interpreting different verses that makes certain horrible people think that I can't get married to the person I love.
They have to notice that there's more to marriage than just a church ceremony. If you're going down the route of 'the bible says so', then don't let atheists get married in your church either - not that I think they'd want to.
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Cortney
Star
[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
The Bown
Posts: 885
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Post by Cortney on Mar 5, 2010 14:16:20 GMT -5
I'm just saying the marriage that this poll is referring to is indeed a Christian marriage. It just says "marry", nothing in the OP says anything about Christianity. And I can't accept that the word "marry" automatically refers to Christian marriage. Pretty much every other religion (not to mention us atheists) would have a problem with that. Alright, maybe I'm just thinking this way because almost every argument against gay marriage is a good ol' Christian "God says no." argument. And all this talk about marriage's sanctity. But yeah, I'm aware that marriage is not strictly a Christian concept. I'm just say when referring to homosexuality, most arguments I've seen about it are mainly centered around the Christian idea of marriage. Anyway, in response to Zang...You are fully entitled to think that homosexuals should not be married. However, you have no right whatsoever to say that they CAN'T marry. I don't think we should say "under God" in the pledge of allegiance, but I'm not going to try and prevent everybody in the US from saying it when they say the pledge.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 5, 2010 15:10:01 GMT -5
But yeah, I'm aware that marriage is not strictly a Christian concept. I'm just say when referring to homosexuality, most arguments I've seen about it are mainly centered around the Christian idea of marriage. This often seems to be the case. Certainly most of the arguments against it are centred in this way. But I don't think it's fair that they're centred this way all the time, especially in government decisions, when they need to be discussing the legal and religiously-neutral use of marriage. Being raised Christian, I have a predisposition to say they shouldn't be married. That, though, is my belief (and not even that...it's more of a feeling, something that I've grown up with, than anything else). Gays being married doesn't affect me positively or negatively in any way I can think of. In fact, it really doesn't affect anyone at all. Why should I care what they do? Why should my opinion be extended to other people of different creeds? It makes no sense. In short, I'm saying that my beliefs don't matter in a situation like this. They have every right to do what they want. Go get married, and more power to you! Thank you. I really wish more of the religious crowd was able to think this way.
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grover
Moon
whatever.
Posts: 203
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Post by grover on Mar 5, 2010 16:24:19 GMT -5
you know, I don't know about you, but I trust that when the people who set this government up put "in god" in the pledge and gave us freedom of religion, that they weren't being hypocrites, just saying.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 5, 2010 17:27:37 GMT -5
Here's what freedom of religion ACTUALLY means in the states:
First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
1878 Supreme Court (Reynolds v. United States): "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices."
Freedom of religion means you have the right to believe what you want, and that congress can't make laws prohibiting that belief. It doesn't mean you have a right to decide that people not of your particular belief don't have the right to get married. Freedom of religion means freedom of thought, but actions can still be governed by the law, regardless of if their motivation is religious or not.
Seriously, if you want the church to be able to decide whether or not gays marry, it's necessary for laws to allow it so that each church can decide. Remember, there are a LOT of christian churches who want the power to marry gays.
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Post by Ricky on Mar 5, 2010 17:43:21 GMT -5
Someone seriously answer my question, seen how laws are made to prevent harm for a person or several. Why was this law created in the first place? why disallow gay marriage in a government institution?
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Camoon
Star
[AWD:01020307]
Trust your pilot, respect your monkey.
Posts: 574
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Post by Camoon on Mar 5, 2010 17:46:55 GMT -5
Whoever said NO has no heart and is an evil person with no soul. No, that is not it. There are allowed to be people that hate it. This is a debate. If there was a true right answer, then it wouldn't be much of a debate. It would be like Who here hate's global warming? GLOBAL WARMING!. BOO!!! Instead, you should be asking WHY they have chosen no instead of calling them heartless. There is a plethora of people in this world and it is very interesting to hear what they have to say. That's the whole point of an opinion. Read a couple posts down I don't actually believe that.
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Cortney
Star
[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
The Bown
Posts: 885
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Post by Cortney on Mar 5, 2010 17:52:14 GMT -5
This often seems to be the case. Certainly most of the arguments against it are centred in this way. But I don't think it's fair that they're centred this way all the time, especially in government decisions, when they need to be discussing the legal and religiously-neutral use of marriage. I agree completely.
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Post by Dimstow on Mar 5, 2010 17:56:38 GMT -5
So, to begin with I just wanna say… Hey guys! =D I’m new to SPOTM (even though you moved, I’m sure the title still fits) And I love it here. Now, to the point of Gay Marriage I need to first state that I am a proud advocate of gay marriage, I think it’s fantastic and I absolutely support it, I think that gays are not only entitled to marriage, but all the legal benefits therein and hither fore should be treated with absolute equality within the U.S. I got to say hither fore <_< BUT within this thread, and I think within most forms of this grand debate, those of us on the liberal side of this debate have succumb to the same close-minded, distorted and near-bigoted argument that our Conservative counterparts are so famous for. To those who don’t approve of gay marriage and who are NOT Bible-toting, knuckle-smacking, god-speaking, overly-conservative, close-minded, racist/sexist bigots; I sincerely apologize to you all because neither side should be stereotyping the other, we should be debating fairly, and speaking our minds Now, I think that the suffering issue here is the legal impact that marriage has on those involved. E.G. Status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent Inheritance automatically in the absence of a will Veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns Wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children (Source: www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm ) Those, and several more, benefits are rather important and I think that those who are choosing to spend their LIVES with each other are definitely deserving of those rights, whether the title of Husband and Wife come with them or not.
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Post by AurAByrooN on Mar 5, 2010 18:14:25 GMT -5
so heres my view, im bi-sexual so i dont realy think gay marrige is wrong and i dont have a thing with guys kissing in public but i hate it when people are all like "oh there gay lets go kick there ass cos they like having sex with men" its like WTF i dont kick your ass for kissing a girl, i mean most "Normal" couple's have anal so why cant guys eh? whats so wrong about it. and heres for the christians out there: god first says he created us in his own will, and so its just contradictary to then say "gays are wrong" and before you all rip on me i am quite expresent about my sexuality and yeh i could kiss a guy in public, if i wanted to but im not going to because i understand some people dont like it. thats my long and boring page of my views lol =D (sorry if it sometimes doesnt make sence but its cos i tryed to like wright 3 conversations at once XD)
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Post by swan on Mar 5, 2010 18:23:25 GMT -5
Dimstow Well said! Edit: I should probably say that I am for Gay marriage, and I see no logical reason for it to not be legal
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 5, 2010 19:15:00 GMT -5
Someone seriously answer my question, seen how laws are made to prevent harm for a person or several. Why was this law created in the first place? why disallow gay marriage in a government institution? 1) Homophobic nation 2) Nation built with generally christian values 3) Because the govenment feels that if they open the gate to gay marriage, what else could they allow. Could they allow you to marry your dog? I know #3 sounds silly, but I'm making it that way.
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Post by Lex on Mar 5, 2010 19:20:02 GMT -5
Someone seriously answer my question, seen how laws are made to prevent harm for a person or several. Why was this law created in the first place? why disallow gay marriage in a government institution? 1) Homophobic nation 2) Nation built with generally christian values 3) Because the govenment feels that if they open the gate to gay marriage, what else could they allow. Could they allow you to marry your dog? I know #3 sounds silly, but I'm making it that way. #3 is because of confused conspiracy theorists like Glenn Beck.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 5, 2010 19:23:56 GMT -5
yep!
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