earth
Moon
the awesome
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God...
May 29, 2010 19:10:56 GMT -5
Post by earth on May 29, 2010 19:10:56 GMT -5
i agree with what dan said. although i'm still young and defining my beliefs. sometimes there is a god. sometimes there isnt. sometimes i meditate like the buddha. i don't know if its worth it to fight about it. everyone should strive to find their own belief, and others should be fine with that belief but not necessarily agree with it, and also make their own.
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God...
May 29, 2010 19:52:43 GMT -5
Post by RandiKthxxx on May 29, 2010 19:52:43 GMT -5
My God is a Universal Architect who does not intervene in human affairs. Think, logically, Earth is not the only planet with life, so why does Earth matter so much? My God does not deal out justice, nor does It She have some sort of happy-realm and sad-realm that it created for an afterlife. This.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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May 29, 2010 19:58:17 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2010 19:58:17 GMT -5
So if you believe, understand why. You like the reference group, you enjoy the almost unconditional acceptance of religion, and it is the only way you can validate having a life (you feel like there is a greater purpose, am I right?). 1: Phenomenon, please. 2: I would call it more of a POLITICAL phenomenon. You see, it (Christianity) all really started to be wide-spread in Rome. At first, it was seen by the poor people as a sign of hope for their own welfare and for the Empire. Emperor Constantine gave it State Patronage in the early 4th century. But what REALLY got everyone to believe was when Emperor Theodosius I made it the OFFICIAL State Religion and banned Pagan Worships (which around 80% of people used for faith at the time.) I personally don't believe, because nobody has given me any evidence besides a book. Just sayin'
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May 29, 2010 20:23:27 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on May 29, 2010 20:23:27 GMT -5
^I almost agree with you. Except for the fact that religion started long before Rome. Unless you make it clear that you are talking about christian religion.
@picnic: I kinda like point 2, and I need to ask: What is exactly heaven for you, I really wish to know this since I cannot see a real utopic heaven, for me heaven, if such a thing as heaven exists, could be a place like the earth, just without a plethora of things that make the world suck, but still with some others that are human-related, if heaven was a place of eternal awesome happiness 1000time happier than earth could ever be, then I think it would get pretty dystopic (at least for my point of view).
Also, I don't believe in the God (not the same as a god) mostly because according to believers he/she/it wanted to create the universe and humans. To that I ask. What for? Not in the sense of "what is the purpose of life?" but in the sense of "God wants something? God needs something?", how could a perfect being want to do anything, does God have meaningless desires that allow God to want stuff, if not, did God need to create us, if so, how could God need something, if he/it/she is all-powerful and omnipotent.
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May 29, 2010 22:30:19 GMT -5
Post by Joey on May 29, 2010 22:30:19 GMT -5
^I almost agree with you. Except for the fact that religion started long before Rome. Unless you make it clear that you are talking about christian religion. @picnic: I kinda like point 2, and I need to ask: What is exactly heaven for you, I really wish to know this since I cannot see a real utopic heaven, for me heaven, if such a thing as heaven exists, could be a place like the earth, just without a plethora of things that make the world suck, but still with some others that are human-related, if heaven was a place of eternal awesome happiness 1000time happier than earth could ever be, then I think it would get pretty dystopic (at least for my point of view). Also, I don't believe in the God (not the same as a god) mostly because according to believers he/she/it wanted to create the universe and humans. To that I ask. What for? Not in the sense of "what is the purpose of life?" but in the sense of "God wants something? God needs something?", how could a perfect being want to do anything, does God have meaningless desires that allow God to want stuff, if not, did God need to create us, if so, how could God need something, if he/it/she is all-powerful and omnipotent. Well heaven to me is a place where everything is right. That might not be perfect, but right. Everything feels right. There might be anger, but everything ends up all right in the end. Its a place that I will feel like I belong. I love my family and friends, but I don't have a real sense of "This is were Im supposed to be". I hope to find that place in life, but I hope that heaven will be that. And to the last part, maybe God wanted to create something, because he(she, it) wasnt lonely, but maybe they were wanting to give life. We all love it when we create something, a picture, a movie, a song. So why couldn't God have created something, just for the sake of creating? And this is just a random thought. What if god created us without knowing it? What if a god existed that didnt know everything, and was just goofing around, much like humans do when we doodle. Accidentally god created the perfect conditions, and now dosent know what to do, so he creates a religion and sends someone to make it seem as if he didnt mess up? Just a thought experiment.
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May 29, 2010 23:44:44 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on May 29, 2010 23:44:44 GMT -5
(@picnic) I like your definition of heaven, seems realistic (religion realistic), but I still feel (at least for my earthly and human point of view) that it would be somehow dystopic, I'm not saying that I wouldn't enjoy to be there, but if I could see my self in a future where I'm in heaven I think I wouldn't like it (to be more specific, I think there would be some sort of mind control/invasion, and memories and people being erased from heaven when needed or some other sort of way of protecting the sacredness of heaven, I know it sounds kinda crazy, but after thinking about it I came to that conclusion).
I think I would like to reincarnate.
I know that may be an explanation, but to think that the God has that kind of "human feelings" (I.E being proud of creations, feeling love, etc) it's kind of scary because it means that God could also feel disappointment for its creations or maybe even hate, if that were the case I would much rather believe in many gods (or believe in nothing), that way they would keep each other in control of their imperfect human emotions, not only that, but to give God emotions would get God much closer to the human race than if God was an emotionless entity. There is more to it but I just got distracted and forgot my ideas =(
About the last thing you said: I have thought something like that xD. Just that my version of God's accident is different. Maybe God is so awesome that we are just one of God's ideas and this is a simulation, a very ephemeral and brief thought on God's mind on what would happen if God suddenly decided to create a tiny little thing called Big Bang, or something like that. Not that God is really thinking hardly about it, to God this whole universe would imply a fraction of the effort that takes us to think "1+1=2", in fact, I think it would take a fraction of the effort that takes to our brain to make us blink. But still that begs the question of how God's mind works and why does God even think about random stuff.
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May 29, 2010 23:52:51 GMT -5
Post by Joey on May 29, 2010 23:52:51 GMT -5
Lyserg Zeroz The thing is that right now, I feel sometimes that I want to reincarnate. I love being happy, but I cant imagine what it feels like to be happy all the time. So if I get to my heaven, and feel the best I could ever feel, then no I would not want to reincarnate. But if I get to heaven and its all happy all the time and I dont feel happy, then what would make me happy is living life again. Sorry if that dosent make sense, but what Im saying is that I like being sad, I like having pain, because it makes the joyous times all the better. If a place where there is no pain is fun, then I want to be there. But if it isnt fun, then I want back.
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May 30, 2010 0:18:35 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on May 30, 2010 0:18:35 GMT -5
Sorry if that dosent make sense No worries, 'cause it totally does =D!
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May 30, 2010 1:28:14 GMT -5
Post by krzych32 on May 30, 2010 1:28:14 GMT -5
When we die, its like we never existed in the first place, and for met that's heaven.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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God...
May 30, 2010 1:34:27 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 30, 2010 1:34:27 GMT -5
Lyserg Zeroz: I'm curious. You just described Picnic's version of heaven as "realistic (religion realistic)". What is it that makes you think that? Is it because you think it'd be nice if it was that way? Because it would be fair according to your morals? What makes it 'religion realistic' to you?
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May 30, 2010 12:07:19 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on May 30, 2010 12:07:19 GMT -5
Any way of heaven should be "nice" once you're there, but as I said before, I don't like that heaven, at least not from where I am now. I mean realistic, in the context of religion, when compared to the ultra happy utopia like versions of heaven that cannot possibly have such thing as pain and everything is perfect. Picnic said that there would be anger, and imperfection, but you'd still feel like belonging to that place. I'm not saying that I believe in it or that it would be necessarily fair according to my morals (althou, I' not sure what you meant with that), I'm just saying that it's easier for me to see that happening.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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God...
May 30, 2010 12:28:11 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 30, 2010 12:28:11 GMT -5
Ah, so not quite as over-the-top as the traditional Christian heaven. I guess I can buy that. At the same time though, I suppose I see any concept of life after death to be equally unlikely in the first place; they all postulate that we live on after dying, which is perhaps even harder to believe than a utopian existence. (That is, if you postulate that there's life after death, you can pretty much believe in anything about it at that point.)
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May 30, 2010 12:44:15 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on May 30, 2010 12:44:15 GMT -5
NakorExactly that. And I also find an after-lfe to be very unlikely, but I can't stop liking the idea of an after-life and that makes me kind of believe in reincarnation, but that is pretty much an unfounded belief that I know is probably not going to be thruth.
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May 30, 2010 12:54:21 GMT -5
Post by Lex on May 30, 2010 12:54:21 GMT -5
No anger, no sadness, just happiness? Heaven would be so BORING. To have that forever? Uggh. I'd rather just cease to exist.
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May 30, 2010 12:55:17 GMT -5
Post by mohaski on May 30, 2010 12:55:17 GMT -5
i cant be bothered 2 read the entire discussion its too long but ill tell u wat i think god should be like he/she/it must be the most kindest (misused grammar on purpose to emphasize what im talkin about) creature/thing that ever existed because someone must have made the universe and were just trashin the place like hell have u noticed that we kill everything even each other so he must be veryyyyyyyyyyyyy kindjust to let us off after everything
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May 30, 2010 19:23:16 GMT -5
Post by Joey on May 30, 2010 19:23:16 GMT -5
No anger, no sadness, just happiness? Heaven would be so BORING. To have that forever? Uggh. I'd rather just cease to exist. I know dude. But wouldn't you rather be reincarnate. Because then you have something to do other than well nothing. And it would be fun to live in a world with lots if technology.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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God...
May 30, 2010 19:23:47 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 30, 2010 19:23:47 GMT -5
^ Or doesn't exist, an equally sufficient reason why we haven't been punished by any gods.
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May 30, 2010 19:35:56 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on May 30, 2010 19:35:56 GMT -5
Wait reincarnate like being reborn again on earth ('cause that is what I mean with reincarnation) or reincarnate like be born again on heaven 0.0? Either way I agree that if such a thing as a heaven exist it may get boring (at least if it is much more "perfect" than earth/life)
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May 30, 2010 19:46:16 GMT -5
Post by Joey on May 30, 2010 19:46:16 GMT -5
Wait reincarnate like being reborn again on earth ('cause that is what I mean with reincarnation) or reincarnate like be born again on heaven 0.0? Either way I agree that if such a thing as a heaven exist it may get boring (at least if it is much more "perfect" than earth/life) Reincarnate on earth. Like, we could have already and not remebered it
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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God...
May 30, 2010 20:37:25 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 30, 2010 20:37:25 GMT -5
My stance on that is this: If we have no memory of who we were, no longer have those genes, and effectively carry none of what makes us the people we are, then reincarnation is no better than and no different from permanent death. Whatever got carried over, if anything at all, would be so insignificant as to still be a totally different person each time, making it effectively meaningless that it happened.
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