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God...
Jun 16, 2010 5:14:39 GMT -5
Post by shootertec on Jun 16, 2010 5:14:39 GMT -5
Christianity is a very wide subject not all Christians are the same. (See the Westboro Baptist Church) Noo this is true. But since they are all part of Christianity, they all have the same basic believes. I dont think there is a form of Christianity where there is no one powerful god or Jesus.
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 5:32:57 GMT -5
Post by shootertec on Jun 16, 2010 5:32:57 GMT -5
And what proof is there of God, heaven, hell, Jesus, or any other religious term? The only "proof" there is is the bible. Many places have had many arguments weather to put the bible in the fiction or non fiction category. Just what proof is there about the bible? For all we know, some one could have just wrote it as a fiction novel like many books today. I dont think there is anyone who was alive when Jesus was on Earth, or anyone who has gone to heaven (or hell) and came back to Earth to tell us that they really do exist. Anyone can come up with a religion. If I said, "Every thing in this universe, your memories, pictures, discoveries, history, yourself, every thing and any thing, was created last Thursday." There is no possible way to prove me wrong. Some replies would be, "I have a paper dated before this," this paper was created last Thursday. "I have a picture of myself when i was only 5," This picture was created last Thursday as well. Even though you cannot prove me wrong, I also have no prove of this other than what I say. This is the same basic concept for just about every religion in existence. There is no way to prove Christianity wrong, but they have no reliable proof. Also what is the point of arguing this? Since there is no way to prove is or disprove it, it is left to personal perspective. This means that there will always be someone disagreeing and arguing with a religion. None of us will really know for sure, or have any absolute proof until we die. You might carry on into and afterworld where your spirit is free to whelm. Or you might go to a heaven like place where all of your friends and loved ones are. Or you might just die... You might just die and that be the end. There is no certain way to know until then so tell us what happens when you die! Oh wait... you cant so only people who have died really know but we have no contact with them. So no way to prove, no way to disprove. What's the point in arguing?
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 5:56:20 GMT -5
Post by Kevak on Jun 16, 2010 5:56:20 GMT -5
^this.
I really don't get what's the point of living waisting your life believing in something that could be wrong.
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Deleted
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 6:23:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2010 6:23:20 GMT -5
^this. I really don't get what's the point of living waisting your life believing in something that could be wrong. if you use that argument, you shouldn't believe in the big bang either, cuz that could be wrong as well. We're only humans and our knowledge is extremely restricted.
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Jun 16, 2010 9:58:40 GMT -5
Post by Ricky on Jun 16, 2010 9:58:40 GMT -5
ANCIENT NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome: Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD): Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian: Emporer Hadrian (117-138 AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the Asian proconsul: Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD: The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD: All of this guys were born[/u] much after Jesus died. I mean even the closest which is Flavius. lets say he started writing his accounts when he was 13 years old. Even then it would mean that he was writing about things that happened 50 years ago. If what happened to Jesus really happened don't you think there would have been accounts written in the time it happened? I mean all of the people of the area knew how to write, and even Romans would have probably given credit to their own gods for something like that happening, but there would have been records. ^ and all that is not even mentioning the Old Testament... which by the way is also full of fallacies. Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion: "Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me."
Yea, but this is the only place where you can fin it, it is not mentioned anywhere else outside of Christian rhetoric, so we can probably dismiss the idea of this being a real event...
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 9:59:54 GMT -5
Post by Ricky on Jun 16, 2010 9:59:54 GMT -5
Also, I'm sorry krzych32. Thought it was you since you were answering the question. Wont happen again
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 10:27:49 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Jun 16, 2010 10:27:49 GMT -5
I mean, those seem like opinions and letters, NOT HISTORY WRITTEN BY AN ACTUAL HISTORIAN.
Never did I say that was a modern idea, but it still doesn't prove that Jesus even existed. Greeks talked and sang about Odysseus, pretty famous and awesome guy, people actually believed that Homer (who actually we're not sure ever existed) was an historian and that Odysseus' adventures actually happened, but that proves nothing, Odysseus most probably never existed, his adventures were only myths. And how the heck did we get from "it 'proves' supporting evidence that the gospels discuss" to "Jesus rose from the dead"?
I'm confused, was Jesus God, its encarnation on Earth or his semi-son? Why would he need to die for my sins anyway, wasn't there a better way (and actually Jesus then, supposedly returned to heaven didn't he, if so, then I'd say that's pretty good...If someone said that if he died and then go to hell, then that would have been a big sacrifice and Jesus would have been more badass than badassness itself 0o0!). And by "reason to care" I meant something more than a story I cannot possibly confirm it ever happened. I meant something that made me realise I cannot go on in my life not praying and all that stuff, that kind of something would maybe make me care to even question if God exists (I don' believe he exists, but nor I am sure that he doesn't, since I could never be certain of such a claim, I accept that I don't know and leave it at that)
"Science and reason are compatible with believing in God" Please leave it at that.
Good by the standards of society, I don't mean I'm a saint, just that I haven't done anything to deserve hell, at least not by the standards of any other than a mercyless and unfair God, unfair meaning: A God who expects me to fail to my reasoning and logic, to dismiss what those things say, to worship him, to believe in stuff that doesn't seem to have sense, and if I do use my sense of reason and logic, and if I do not worship him, and if I do not believe in stuff that have no real support and do a plethora of other quite unnecessary stuff that go against anything making sense, if I do not have BLIND faith in something that doesn't seem to matter in the Earth life, which is the one that seems the most likely to be the only one and the only important one, then I go to eternal damnation.
I meant that they lost or never had faith, and do not only just not believe in God, but fight against what the idea of God could do to humanity they "deny" God 'cause for them, the idea of God doesn't make sense, not because they want to "get away from him", not because they think "he is evil", but because they can't see a God existing. Not believing in something that does not seem to make sense and going against harmful religious groups is a not even near to being a good reason to send someone to hell. And more importantly. So if you say someone has misused the idea of God, the you should know what the idea is, I mean, you believe in God don't you? So. What is the idea of God for you?
Oh, OK then, but "extremely unpleasant" still sound quite horrible, especially when taking to the extreme of extremely unpleasant for ever.
And I believe you did not respond to this: "And BTW, why do you believe what you believe? I hope it is not a believe born out of fear and terror that hell may have caused you, that's a terrible reason to believe in a god or gods."
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 10:34:21 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Jun 16, 2010 10:34:21 GMT -5
^this. I really don't get what's the point of living waisting your life believing in something that could be wrong. if you use that argument, you shouldn't believe in the big bang either, cuz that could be wrong as well. We're only humans and our knowledge is extremely restricted. Maybe, but that's a really bad analogy. People base its actions in what they believe if they believe in anything, there's people who base their values and decissions on their religion and their values or decissions on what other people representing that religion tell them. But believing or thinking Big Bang happened (which is by the way, compatible with the idea of religion) is not (or should not ) going to control the way you behave in life. (sorry to double post, but the other post was too lenghty so I supposed it would be easier to post different posts directed to different persons)
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Deleted
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 11:49:58 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2010 11:49:58 GMT -5
ok, that's true but still, living your life by religion isn't wasting your life (though I don't believe in god, I try to live by Buddhist values because I believe they enrich me)
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Jun 16, 2010 11:55:36 GMT -5
Post by Lyserg Zeroz on Jun 16, 2010 11:55:36 GMT -5
That's almost always true. If you are going to believe in a religion or base your action on a religion just because of what that religion promises as an afterlife, then yes, we could say it's kinda like wasting your life. But if you live by a religion because you really do believe in it an in its practical applicable teachings and values (like you said you do), then I don't think you'd be wasting your life
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Jun 16, 2010 12:16:31 GMT -5
Post by mashuga31 on Jun 16, 2010 12:16:31 GMT -5
Y'know, we could sit here and argue about whether or not there is a god all day, but we'd never come to a conclusion. I think that there are multiple gods. I just choose the one the bible refers to the most. If you'll notice in the beginning of the bible it says "Let us make man in our image." It'd kinda be weird if you were to say that and be the only creature in existence. He also later goes on to say that "You shall not have any other gods before me." My friends seem to take this as "Don't make up gods." But that isn't what he said. He said not to have any other gods before him. I take the bible in a different way than most Christians. It is pretty much a players guide to life. "Don't eat ham." Well, they didn't know how to cook ham when it was written. "Don't eat too much shellfish." Well, you'll kinda get mercury poisoning and die. "Don't perform witchcraft." Well... I have no idea why that's in there. Maybe god thought it was too powerful for us to control. Or simply it's because it's his power. Your dad doesn't want you touching his porch not because he thinks you'll scratch it or whatever, its because it's his and only he gets to get sweet time with it. The bible implies a lot of things, like for example witch craft. If it tells you not to do it, it implies that you can. Humans are capable of anything it seems. If somebody tells me not to grow wings and fly, well I still can. I could spend my entire life researching gene splicing and then grafting a pair of wings into my DNA... but, if that person were someone I actually considered a respectable sense of authority then I probably wouldn't go out of my way to do it out of sheer respect. I actually only follow the ten commandments, anything past that seems more like helpful tips. The Bible 'is' outdated. We need a new bible. But god hasn't been casting down his knowledge lately (or in the past 2000 years) so at the moment, that's not possible. And with today's society its hard to tell which freaks on TV are telling the truth in that god actually spoke to them, whether or not they're insane, or if they're just trying to gain publicity. Plus in all seriousness, I don't think people should really debate his existance. I mean that'd be kinda messed up if someone's dad overheard his kids debating on whether or not he's dependable. Everybody has a choice to make and they should walk their own road. I believe in god for two reasons. 1: Peer pressure... lol jk. 2: I've had some cool stuff happen that I asked to happen. And even if it was an ultra coincidence, I think that someone had to make that coincidence happen. Seeya on the flip side homies.
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earth
Moon
the awesome
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God...
Jun 16, 2010 12:57:28 GMT -5
Post by earth on Jun 16, 2010 12:57:28 GMT -5
some guy once said science and religion are two paths that can go along side by side without having to cross or interwind or w.e. the word is. some believe in one religion, some believe in another, and some believe in nothing. if ones religion is right, the others must be too, and then eveyrthings just weird. no one religion is right, no one religion can be completely proven. every religion is fine for the person that believes it, and he shouldnt have to argue how his is better or not, or if its true or not with another. and science can but shouldnt be mingled with religion. religion is supposed to explain the why, science explains the how. thats what people say.
i personally am a third atheist, a third christian, and a third buddhist. i just dont know what to believe. i do and dont believe in a god. i have problems with the bible and i lean alot towards atheism. and the buddhism is just there cos its such a good religion, its morals and examples are so.. honest and good and great for life. im really into philosophy but for myself, i constantly ask myself question about death, religion, life, the universe, our existence, and everything. and i usually accept what others believe, unless it harms others or is just completely ignorant. then again ignorant has varied definitons.
people can and cant prove theres a god. i say put it to a rest, whatever works fine for you personally should be fine. we shouldnt need to try to convince overyone of our views on this subject, its one of the debates that can almost never end, and if it does it just comes down to debating skills, not the subject itself. other subjects can and should be debated but i think this one is just personal and the truth is different for everyone.
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Philosoraptor
Moon
dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
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God...
Jun 18, 2010 0:11:10 GMT -5
Post by Philosoraptor on Jun 18, 2010 0:11:10 GMT -5
...I suppose theoretically there's some possibility of strange and extreme genetic engineering that could potentially provide wings (though there would have to be some really wild physical changes to the human body to allow for actual flight), but that isn't an accurate analogy. Magic and witchcraft isn't real, so humans cannot actually ever use it (apart from in a sufficiently-advanced-technology way a la Arthur C. Clarke). You're assuming witchcraft is both possible and accessible. This is just completely unreasonable idea. For one, there would be no excuse for a creator who chose to present himself in extremely confusing, vague, and often easily misinterpreted ways to be angry at his followers for momentarily doubting his existence. If there were a God, he'd have been really, really awful at getting messages across. Coincidences are by definition accidental. And they certainly aren't proof of God. I imagine the "cool stuff" that happened weren't things that are naturally impossible. If I prayed to God to momentarily change some fundamental law of physics, and I got a response, then I might waver. I don't understand why the existence of God is put on an untouchable pedestal and given some special "you can't talk about this!" property. It's just as natural a question as "does the earth have a magnetic field" or "do unicorns exist".
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God...
Jun 18, 2010 1:43:01 GMT -5
Post by krzych32 on Jun 18, 2010 1:43:01 GMT -5
Maybe God is there somewhere. I mean, we got life, I still can't believe something so unlikely exists.....
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God...
Jun 19, 2010 10:22:03 GMT -5
Post by michaelt1987 on Jun 19, 2010 10:22:03 GMT -5
Science and reason are not incompatable with believing Jesus rose from the dead to save you from your sins. This was enough to make my respect for you go from "someone who stands by his beliefs" to "an ignorant fool". Don't try to force your religion on other people. We don't believe, that's our 'problem'. You're allowed to believe in God, I don't give a SHIRT, but you don't have any proof that he exists. Belief =/= proof and a 2000 year old text from a shirtload of different authors, who often didn't have direct contact with this person called Jesus (who I do belief existed btw). How exactly was anything that I have said an attempt to force anything on anyone?
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Jun 19, 2010 12:05:58 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Jun 19, 2010 12:05:58 GMT -5
Science and reason are not incompatable with believing Jesus rose from the dead to save you from your sins. Telling us that Jesus died for our sins isn't going to get you anywhere in your sneaky guilt-tripping. Many of us think the concept of sin is, frankly, bullshit. So don't go telling us that he saved us from our sins, because there's NO SUCH THING. Now here's a better one: Judge not lest ye be judged. My God doesn't judge people, does yours?
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Jun 20, 2010 5:08:12 GMT -5
Post by Kevak on Jun 20, 2010 5:08:12 GMT -5
Anybody else notice there are 666 topics in the Anything and Everything section?
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earth
Moon
the awesome
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God...
Jun 20, 2010 9:03:50 GMT -5
Post by earth on Jun 20, 2010 9:03:50 GMT -5
so?
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Jun 20, 2010 9:35:03 GMT -5
Post by Ricky on Jun 20, 2010 9:35:03 GMT -5
Anybody else notice there are 666 topics in the Anything and Everything section? lol yea, I noticed. Still it was bound to happen after 665 topics...
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earth
Moon
the awesome
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God...
Jun 20, 2010 10:07:28 GMT -5
Post by earth on Jun 20, 2010 10:07:28 GMT -5
oh 666 as in the number of the "devil" or of bad luck? wow. i dont even believe in that guy. or superstition.
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