jaw
Moon
Oh yeah!
Posts: 154
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 11:42:56 GMT -5
Post by jaw on Jun 15, 2010 11:42:56 GMT -5
So you should make your decisions based on how it will affect everybody else and not yourself? This kind of thinking is not going to get us to Tribe level 5. Ofcourse you should think about other people. Does a bank robber care about killing people while he's robbing a bank? No. He just wants to become rich. Does a rapist care about emotionally and physically harming the person that is getting raped? No, the rapist wants pleasure. All of the above is examples of people thinking for themselves and not people around them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 12:06:27 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2010 12:06:27 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but someone who wants to commit suicide isn't likely to reach a state of "Life is great" in my opinion.
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jaw
Moon
Oh yeah!
Posts: 154
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 12:32:52 GMT -5
Post by jaw on Jun 15, 2010 12:32:52 GMT -5
What I meant was in general. The kind of thinking of "I'm doing whatever benefits me"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 12:59:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2010 12:59:08 GMT -5
while I agree with you that the mindset of "I don't think about other people" isn't a good one, this thread is still about suicide and I don't think that suicide applies to that general rule. Maybe you can discuss this in the Noble Cause discussion?
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jaw
Moon
Oh yeah!
Posts: 154
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 14:07:58 GMT -5
Post by jaw on Jun 15, 2010 14:07:58 GMT -5
I thought it was relevant to Cortney's argument. She stated the person who wants to kill them self should be thinking for themselves, not for the emotional harm it could cause to others.
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 14:45:15 GMT -5
Post by Borbus on Jun 15, 2010 14:45:15 GMT -5
Well it works both ways, of course. Is it right to expect somebody to stay alive just for the benefit of their friends/family?
If somebody is forced to self terminate by some kind of illness (ie. depression) then I believe they should be helped and termination should generally not be prescribed. A person suffering from bipolar, for example, might enjoy the day following an extreme low.
On the other hand, if a person has decided rationally that it is time to self terminate then I believe they have every right to do so. For humans this could be quite a hard decision to make, one would need to become more like a vulcan. It is a sad fact, however, that humans are the only animals that cannot be given a peaceful death in most countries.
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 22:39:30 GMT -5
Post by kreacherxluver on Jun 15, 2010 22:39:30 GMT -5
Suicide is something I find is horrible. Depression, the same. Neither are something that you, yourself can control. Pills, and other people are the ones that better you. I find it something really hard to analyze, but I do think suicide does effect people around the person, whether they know this individual or not. I don't know if you know of PostSecret, it's just kind of a big thing, but in last week's post there was this secret: It does just look like a normal secret, but it does talk about suicide. Postsecret has such a big following, and all of the people are just amazing, but they also have their own problems (Depression, Eating Disorders, Family issues ect.). So suicide is something very real to them weather they've gone through it or their friend/family has. Within a week of having this picture posted, over 59, 000 people joined a facebook group in support of this anonymous person. Right now there are 64, 723 people hoping this person doesn't end his/her life, and telling them that they belong. There's 193 photos of people offering support to this person, or any person that might consider taking their life. And I can't even tell you how many comments there are of people encouraging this person on to be 'strong'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Suicide is horrible. Some of us want to get through it, and some just don't care. BUT There are always people that want you to get through it. This is the page by the waywww.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119460778095373&v=wall&ref=mf
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Suicide
Jun 15, 2010 22:43:16 GMT -5
Post by kreacherxluver on Jun 15, 2010 22:43:16 GMT -5
I feel suicide shows the person is a coward. They ran away from their problems, instead of facing it. This doesn't mean I think people who've contemplated suicide are cowards, I feel that the people who wanted to kill themselves but didn't, show courage. I believe that we are all different and we all work on different levels. Just like we all have different pain thresholds, we can all tolerate so much. Everybody is different in the amount of trauma they can go through before making rash decisions. Some people lack the support that others have, and just don't know what else to do. I do think suicide is stupid; but no. Not weak. I think there's regrets, we were not made to function by killing ourselves, but then again, humans do many things they were not made to do.
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Suicide
Jun 16, 2010 1:19:04 GMT -5
Post by Jake on Jun 16, 2010 1:19:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but someone who wants to commit suicide isn't likely to reach a state of "Life is great" in my opinion. To be honest, out of the people I know who once wanted to commit suicide, there are probably more of them who I would call "happy" than "not so happy". Take youtuber, Strawburry17 for example. Suicide shouldn't be encouraged/allowed/accepted or anything like this because most of the time, they aren't considering the other possibilities. Perhaps rather then ending their life by suicide, they should end their current life and start up again away from their current life with proper treatment and help.
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Suicide
Jun 16, 2010 2:28:16 GMT -5
Post by neilgdickson on Jun 16, 2010 2:28:16 GMT -5
I certainly can't speak for all scenarios of suicide, but please try to stop suicide attempts of sad teenagers. The way many people get to that point is by not having people to lean on when being subject to horrible circumstances beyond their control.
I was once a sensitive, caring teenager maliciously abused and tortured by peers and authority figures for years, and although I'll never be the same person again, most of the years since being saved from a suicide attempt have been the best of my life. As the psychologist I saw after the incident put it: "There's nothing wrong with you. I'd be just as sad if I'd been through that." It took a long time to get over the abuse, but when the people responsible were no longer a part of my life, I slowly got better.
Without people caring enough to intervene, I would be dead.
P.S. Mental and emotional abuse are very often much worse than physical abuse, and this is coming from someone who, among a few hundred other occaisions, was once held down against a boulder while being beaten unconscious with a steel fencepost. It hurt much more that the principal refused to believe that anything bad could be happening at her school.
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Suicide
Jun 16, 2010 10:15:12 GMT -5
Post by ladystardust on Jun 16, 2010 10:15:12 GMT -5
You'd be surprised of how much thought someone puts into their suicide attempt. I have a family friend (let's call her Lisa) who works in the social services section, and has dealt with individuals at risk in various areas. I'd like to pass on one story in particular.
One of Lisa's clients (let's call her Jane) called one day and told her that she - Jane - was going to kill herself. Lisa responded by asking: "Have you finished all your laundry?" Jane: "... No." Lisa: "Well, you don't want your loved ones going through your dirty laundry after you're gone, do you?" As soon as Jane hung up, Lisa called the appropriate authorities, who rushed to Jane's house to find her finishing up her laundry.
The reason this worked is that many (not all, mind you) people who commit or attempt suicide do everything they can to minimize the burden they will be on those they leave behind, whether they realize it or not. It would be inaccurate to say they are being selfish, or ignorant of those around them. They are very much aware of the role they play in other people's lives: it would be more accurate to say they have an in accurate picture of what that role is.
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Suicide
Jun 17, 2010 15:00:31 GMT -5
Post by KipEnyan on Jun 17, 2010 15:00:31 GMT -5
Good point ladystardust. I have enjoyed your insight into this matter thus far.
An alternative to suicide that I always found very appealing, something that got me thinking when I was at some low points, was this:
If you are willing to kill yourself, willing to drop everything and end it all for good, then you should be willing to do anything and everything else. Run away. Take a plane to an exotic land and start anew amongst the locals. Go skydiving. Dance naked in the rain. After all, when you're done, suicide is still an option.
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Suicide
Jun 17, 2010 15:09:06 GMT -5
Post by Johncoyne on Jun 17, 2010 15:09:06 GMT -5
I think suicide should be punishable by death. Lolwut?
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Suicide
Jun 17, 2010 15:11:07 GMT -5
Post by KipEnyan on Jun 17, 2010 15:11:07 GMT -5
It almost is, actually. Suicide is a crime in the United States.
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Suicide
Jun 19, 2010 16:03:14 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Jun 19, 2010 16:03:14 GMT -5
It almost is, actually. Suicide is a crime in the United States. It was, in six states until the late 70s when the laws were repealed. Nobody ever enforced it, though. Currently, in the United States, there are some areas where they consider it a "common law crime", but this only results in rare situations with the family suing the cause of the death (say negligence by a caregiver). Other than that, nobody enforces any laws).
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Philosoraptor
Moon
dangling prepositions is something up with which I shall not put
Posts: 145
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Suicide
Jun 19, 2010 21:33:13 GMT -5
Post by Philosoraptor on Jun 19, 2010 21:33:13 GMT -5
suicide is very very rarely ever the best option to any problem. unless your situation is like, "I've killed a bunch of innocent children and I'd rather die now than live life in prison" there's always a more helpful alternative.
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Suicide
Jun 19, 2010 21:49:36 GMT -5
Post by cooltiger413 on Jun 19, 2010 21:49:36 GMT -5
suicide is very very rarely ever the best option to any problem. unless your situation is like, "I've killed a bunch of innocent children and I'd rather die now than live life in prison" there's always a more helpful alternative. I agree with this statement, when your life is, no matter what, going to be bad, suicide is an option. The problem is most people don't realize what other options they have (as someone stated earlier for example, to move to some random far away place and start life a new)
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Suicide
Jun 20, 2010 22:03:36 GMT -5
Post by rialvestro on Jun 20, 2010 22:03:36 GMT -5
It almost is, actually. Suicide is a crime in the United States. Yeah, however that is a stupid law for two reasons. 1. It's that person's choice, it's their life, and legally no one else should be able to change that. Morally you should try to prevent it but legally there's not a damn thing you can do about it. 2. There's no way to enforce that law. What's the point of making something illegal if you can't enforce it? What are they going to do arrest the corpse?
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Suicide
Jun 24, 2010 8:19:51 GMT -5
Post by dandelions8910 on Jun 24, 2010 8:19:51 GMT -5
Pretty much everything I can say has been said except the reasons laws about suicides are in effect. In reply to rialvestro, 1. This gives the opportunity for authorities to step in when they can. Like "Lisa"'s authorities got to Jane. Were there no laws about suicide, that would not be possible. When someone reaches out for help in such a way, they need help. There would be no way to get to a person in that position if the authorities didn't get involved. They have the abilities that civilians do not. 2. Clearly they won't punish someone for attempting. The sole purpose is to get these individuals the help they need and deserve.
While I feel that I am not worthy to control another human being and their choices, I do not think that suicide is ever the correct answer. While people can think what they want, we each have a responsibility to one another to not allow a person to feel so awful about themselves and their situation to resort to something so drastic the same way we each have a responsibility to the people around us to take into consideration the ways our actions affect them. While Cortney is right to an extent, should we really allow free will to get in the way of making someone feel better and helping them?
You can't legally truly keep someone from committing suicide, but we can do our damn best to get them to the support they need. People depend on each other and I know for sure I would not have gotten through the roughest of times had I not known that those around me needed me. We should all be more open with those we care for especially when they are feeling down. Let them know that you love them and would be hurt by losing them. Suicidal people often see themselves as simply a burden to the ones they care for. While some won't get it, it can't hurt to let someone know how you feel about them.
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Suicide
Jun 25, 2010 16:18:34 GMT -5
Post by randomized180 on Jun 25, 2010 16:18:34 GMT -5
In my opinion, suicide depeands on the contex. If someone did it for attention, then that is, in my eyes, a bad reason. If someone did it because their wife died and they couldn't stand living without them, that is a slightly better reason. People usually commit suicide because they feel their life is going nowhere and they have no way of getting out of it. I don't think it's fair to genrallise, but on the whole, that's running from your problems. With that in consideration, I think it's always the suicidal person's fault.
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