bullskitur
Planet
Intelligence requires not confusing what you believe with what you know
Posts: 306
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Suicide
Jun 25, 2010 20:58:28 GMT -5
Post by bullskitur on Jun 25, 2010 20:58:28 GMT -5
In my opinion, suicide depeands on the contex. If someone did it for attention, then that is, in my eyes, a bad reason. If someone did it because their wife died and they couldn't stand living without them, that is a slightly better reason. People usually commit suicide because they feel their life is going nowhere and they have no way of getting out of it. I don't think it's fair to genrallise, but on the whole, that's running from your problems. With that in consideration, I think it's always the suicidal person's fault. Even if that person has been bullied for several years and his parents are deadbeats that don't give a SHIRT about him. Everything that he does to try and improve his situation always gets ruined by others and just makes things worse or at best leads to status quo. Everyday he lives he is humiliated and beaten, both at school and at home. Tried running away, but police always catches him and then gets beaten up for trying. With several years left until getting out of school and be able to move out of his parents house. More than 1000 days of getting beaten up, pushed, spat on, kicked and verbally abused. Every day is a dread for tomorrow. And there is a way, simple and easy way to get out of it all. Is the fault really his?
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Suicide
Jun 25, 2010 23:57:24 GMT -5
Post by metallica210 on Jun 25, 2010 23:57:24 GMT -5
KUTNER DIDN'T SHOW ANY SIGNS!
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Suicide
Jun 26, 2010 3:51:40 GMT -5
Post by rialvestro on Jun 26, 2010 3:51:40 GMT -5
OK here's a question.
What if the person who has already saved your life multiple times and later in life ends up doing the same things they know made you suicidal in the first place after they promised they wouldn't making it difficult to trust anyone who claims to care about your life. You just lost your job, your girlfriend, and everything else in your life that makes you happy. You're in constant physical and emotional pain all the time and the things that make your life worth while are all taken away from you. And on top of all that you realize that the people you care about most are suffering but you can't do a damn thing to help them even if you had help for yourself. Add to that some serious physical and mental health problems. The physical being that you're slowing bleeding to death anyway, have heart problems, and a possibility of cancer. Mental being that you have multiple personality disorder to which more than one personality is willing to commit suicide. And finally I almost forgot, some crazy woman you've never met wants to kill you because she thinks your mother killed her son so she wants your mother to know what it feels like to loose a child. Given all of this what other option is there?
BTW, that's what my life is right now. So if you can think of something better than please be my guest. Right now I am actually trying to get my life back togeather and find some shred of happieness in it. I'm going to speak to a neibor tomarrow who has a film company about getting a job but this is basically my last hope because there are no other job oppertunities for me in my area and I don't have the money or a place to stay to find work anywhere else at least for another year and a half and I need to find a job soon or I'm going to loose my home next. And I'm living with my parents as it is which is OK so long as I have a job. My mom is a bitch and will look for any excuse to throw me out of the house. I'm just 1 step away from hitting rock bottom where I have no options left.
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Suicide
Jun 26, 2010 5:24:35 GMT -5
Post by randomized180 on Jun 26, 2010 5:24:35 GMT -5
KUTNER DIDN'T SHOW ANY SIGNS! Well, I see what you mean, it does depeand on the context. At the end of the day though it is the person's decision and nothing can be dont to stop them.
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bullskitur
Planet
Intelligence requires not confusing what you believe with what you know
Posts: 306
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Suicide
Jun 26, 2010 13:02:36 GMT -5
Post by bullskitur on Jun 26, 2010 13:02:36 GMT -5
KUTNER DIDN'T SHOW ANY SIGNS! Well, I see what you mean, it does depeand on the context. At the end of the day though it is the person's decision and nothing can be dont to stop them. Yes they can be stopped sometimes. Maybe if you promise to help them and be there for them. Maybe if you can make them look at their problems from another perspective. But I agree that some cannot be reasoned with and can not be saved.
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Suicide
Jun 29, 2010 15:34:09 GMT -5
Post by lolsall on Jun 29, 2010 15:34:09 GMT -5
suicidal thoughts is a mental sickness and can be helped thru spiritual support but.....even the person tht is having these thoughts doesnt say anything to the peaple around them it is techniclly impossible for them to realise.it is a sikness and can be helped in my oppinion. medications have prooven little succes in fixing these thoughts in a person so it requires much support from every1 around them. It will happen if no 1 understands what there going through and tries to help them.
and to anyone who believe tht u will go to hell beacause u commit suicide is wrong. i believe everything happens for a reason and if a person commits suicide they had a good reason for it and the higher powers(god.etc.) have reason behind it. you will not burn in hell for something that was ment to be.
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Suicide
Jun 29, 2010 16:04:00 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Jun 29, 2010 16:04:00 GMT -5
lolhelldoesn'tevenexist
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Suicide
Jun 29, 2010 16:17:14 GMT -5
Post by RandiKthxxx on Jun 29, 2010 16:17:14 GMT -5
KUTNER DIDN'T SHOW ANY SIGNS! Well, I see what you mean, it does depeand on the context. At the end of the day though it is the person's decision and nothing can be dont to stop them. There's this old dude in Australia that lives across from Australia's most popular suicide spot and he stops people from killing themselves all the time...like a lot. I'll try and find the article for you. It's possible for them to be stopped, they just need to be brought back to rational thinking. Suicidal people tend to not be able to think about their lives in the long run, I think if you can help them do this, then there's a better chance that they'll change their mind.
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Suicide
Jun 30, 2010 0:42:13 GMT -5
Post by oblecedemorsa on Jun 30, 2010 0:42:13 GMT -5
I am a body autonomist. The body is the only thing that we truly own, that nobody can take away from us without killing us. You can try to convince someone not kill themselves, you can ask them to go to psychiatry sessions, you can beg them not to, you can scream at them as they put the noose upon their neck, but don't run to stop them. It's their choice. Whether you think it's smart or not, it's your choice.
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bullskitur
Planet
Intelligence requires not confusing what you believe with what you know
Posts: 306
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Suicide
Jun 30, 2010 13:57:03 GMT -5
Post by bullskitur on Jun 30, 2010 13:57:03 GMT -5
KUTNER DIDN'T SHOW ANY SIGNS! If only Obama hadn't won the election he would have lived.
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Post by Enemynarwhal on Jul 4, 2010 0:06:28 GMT -5
Alot of people get really angry at people who kill themselves but that seems unfair. They're going against every instinct they have so they must be really down about something. I also have a somewhat contradictory belief. I believe that someone has the right to kill themselves if they want to, and that they don't deserve all the anger people give to them for doing it or attempting to do it however i also believe that in most cases if someone can stop them they should. I guess contradicting yourself is part of being human.
Also I know this is a terrible thing to say but wanting someone to live who doesn't want to live is just as self centered as someone killing themselves and hurting their loved ones. People who love someone only want them to live for themsleves.
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Matthew
Planet
[AWD:02030716]
Blah
Posts: 471
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Post by Matthew on Jul 4, 2010 7:47:23 GMT -5
I think there should be a distinction drawn between responsibility and useless guilt. If you're exceedingly close to someone, and let's assume they show some sorts of warning signs, and you ignore them or are too careless to take note of them, and they kill themselves, you have some serious responsibility in that matter. Should you acknowledge that some of that fault goes to you? Absolutely. It's selfish and disgraceful to the person who died not to. Should you self-loathe for the rest of your life over it? Absolutely not. It's selfish and disgraceful to the person who died to. I believe your situation to be entirely plausible, but I also believe that occasionally, warning signs are easily missed. There are times when surviving loved ones refuse to believe that someone took their own life, because they were "so happy," and "loved life." Someone intent on taking their own life may be able to hide known warning signs, falsifying behaviour so that no one would think to try and stop them or talk them out of it. What I find to be especially dangerous is that one can't objectively acknowledge that they may have failed to recognize a behaviour or act as a sign that someone they loved was at risk. There is no "Hey, my bad. Oops." To feel even partly responsible for a loved one's death is utter agony, which is why it is unwise to stare down that hole. Surviving loved ones are strongly encouraged to keep telling themselves that there was nothing they could have done, that the deceased would have found a way no matter what, because the alternative leads nowhere good. I agree with you, but I think some people would be capable of saying to themselves "There's nothing I could of done" about someone they love killing themselves, especially if they recognize any warning signs after the person has commited suicide. If no warning signs were ever shown, then I think that its a lot easier to not feel responsible for the death, but as Nick said, its hard to not have guilt. Did that make sense? I'm not very good with the debate section :/ EDIT: Whoops, just realized there was two pages of stuff to read, so if my argument is indeed, invalid, please tell me so.
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Post by low on Jul 6, 2010 8:58:49 GMT -5
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Suicide
Jul 6, 2010 13:12:01 GMT -5
Post by zAkAtAk on Jul 6, 2010 13:12:01 GMT -5
I had an attempted suicide 2 winters ago.
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Suicide
Jul 7, 2010 14:41:57 GMT -5
Post by James McClelland on Jul 7, 2010 14:41:57 GMT -5
Nobody should be forced to live, nor forced to die. If somebody commits suicide, it's their business, although it would be nice if they killed themselves for a legitimate reason that can't be sorted out, because...well, you'd kinda be wasting your life if you did otherwise.
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Post by velvetdivorce on Jul 8, 2010 7:18:01 GMT -5
I love M*A*S*H..
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Suicide
Jul 8, 2010 11:28:35 GMT -5
Post by bombmaniac on Jul 8, 2010 11:28:35 GMT -5
I am a body autonomist. The body is the only thing that we truly own, that nobody can take away from us without killing us. You can try to convince someone not kill themselves, you can ask them to go to psychiatry sessions, you can beg them not to, you can scream at them as they put the noose upon their neck, but don't run to stop them. It's their choice. Whether you think it's smart or not, it's your choice. i'm in a foul mood so pardon any harshness... responses like yours make me laugh because they are idiotic. are people really level headed, and of sound mind when they kill themselves? if no, then stop them. if yes? why the hell has no one ever attempted suicide...failed...gotten back up...AND JUMPED AGAIN!!! obviously i'm allowing for isolated instances, but the general trend is such that people who attempt suicide, do not try again immediately.
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Suicide
Jul 11, 2010 17:18:38 GMT -5
Post by KipEnyan on Jul 11, 2010 17:18:38 GMT -5
I am a body autonomist. The body is the only thing that we truly own, that nobody can take away from us without killing us. You can try to convince someone not kill themselves, you can ask them to go to psychiatry sessions, you can beg them not to, you can scream at them as they put the noose upon their neck, but don't run to stop them. It's their choice. Whether you think it's smart or not, it's your choice. i'm in a foul mood so pardon any harshness... responses like yours make me laugh because they are idiotic. are people really level headed, and of sound mind when they kill themselves? if no, then stop them. if yes? why the hell has no one ever attempted suicide...failed...gotten back up...AND JUMPED AGAIN!!! obviously i'm allowing for isolated instances, but the general trend is such that people who attempt suicide, do not try again immediately. That can actually be explained chemically. Attempting suicide in most forms releases beta-endorphins. They calm you down SUBSTANTIALLY, even if you were already in a sound mind. They give you a sort of temporary peace with the world, so attempting suicide again doesn't seem like your greatest option at the moment. It's why cutting is such an effective form of therapy.
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Silverrida
Moon
Infinity - So far away yet around us at the same time
Posts: 112
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Suicide
Jul 16, 2010 8:16:40 GMT -5
Post by Silverrida on Jul 16, 2010 8:16:40 GMT -5
Nobody should be forced to live, nor forced to die. If somebody commits suicide, it's their business, although it would be nice if they killed themselves for a legitimate reason that can't be sorted out, because...well, you'd kinda be wasting your life if you did otherwise. Who decides what is a legitimate reason and what isn't? Pain is relative; everyone could be under substantially different circumstances and still want to kill themselves, whether they lost something others would consider insignificant or somebody really close to them. Those that commit suicide are in a mind-set that the things occurring are truly significant; I know I did when I was suicidal. However now, in my current "eh" state, I can see that I have a life that is much better off than others. When I'm depressed, none of what I have matters; it's what I'm missing or what has been done to me. Suicidal people are pessimistic and tend to see themselves being stuck in a situation with no solution sans death.
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Suicide
Jul 16, 2010 18:53:09 GMT -5
Post by KipEnyan on Jul 16, 2010 18:53:09 GMT -5
Nobody should be forced to live, nor forced to die. If somebody commits suicide, it's their business, although it would be nice if they killed themselves for a legitimate reason that can't be sorted out, because...well, you'd kinda be wasting your life if you did otherwise. Who decides what is a legitimate reason and what isn't? Pain is relative; everyone could be under substantially different circumstances and still want to kill themselves, whether they lost something others would consider insignificant or somebody really close to them. Those that commit suicide are in a mind-set that the things occurring are truly significant; I know I did when I was suicidal. However now, in my current "eh" state, I can see that I have a life that is much better off than others. When I'm depressed, none of what I have matters; it's what I'm missing or what has been done to me. Suicidal people are pessimistic and tend to see themselves being stuck in a situation with no solution sans death. ^^^^That. Definitely a person who has been to genuine suicidal extents. When you get to that point, you can sit there and acknowledge every good thing you have in your life, but it makes 0 difference, because the sense that all the negatives are NEVER going to go away doesn't fade.
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