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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 13:52:29 GMT -5
Post by newschooled on Nov 9, 2010 13:52:29 GMT -5
Here's my opinion: Yes. BUT not in a theistic methodology. I think of it this way: Thoughts are electrical impulses in our brains. Ergo, energy. Long story short, prayer is sending that energy outward into the universe...And thus, the universe reacts (or doesn't react) accordingly.
However, others may believe that prayer means telepathically communicating with a self aware caucasian bearded man who lives on a cloud.
Regardless...U think it WORKS?
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 13:58:26 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Nov 9, 2010 13:58:26 GMT -5
No. It's nonsensical in thinking that it does.
The logic goes something like this: Person A postulates that prayer has a 100% success rate. Person B asks why, because evidently, not all prayers are answered. Person A says that if God wills it, He allows it. Thus, 1% of prayers may be answered, and the remaining 99% are not answered because they go against God's will. Therefore, prayer has a 100% success rate.
Of course, this claim is absurd, seeing as there is no factual way to verify its details.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:07:01 GMT -5
Post by newschooled on Nov 9, 2010 14:07:01 GMT -5
I would argue that it can't or hasn't been proven. Google the "Findhorn Project". Long story short, it was an experiment where both plants and patients in the hospital were prayed for. The observed result was the plants that were being prayed for grew consistently faster than the control group, and the patients who were being prayed for had consistently shorter hospital stays. (The patients DID NOT KNOW they were being prayed for)
Also, I think "Will of God" is an absolutist theistic term. The alternate theory is that like stated, prayer is centered around directing energy within the collective cosmos. This principal coincides rather flawlessly with the laws of quantum physics.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:15:02 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Nov 9, 2010 14:15:02 GMT -5
Also, I think "Will of God" is an absolutist theistic term. The alternate theory is that like stated, prayer is centered around directing energy within the collective cosmos. This principal coincides rather flawlessly with the laws of quantum physics. ^^Biggest waste of paper ever.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:27:23 GMT -5
Post by Rogers91 on Nov 9, 2010 14:27:23 GMT -5
i dont know...
however every time my dad prays he is given some sort of ill fate... now either his timeing is terrible which it could easily be or when he prayed for a easy work week god struck him down and gave him blood poisoning or when he prayed that he would have enough in his next pay check to pay child support the cop was hit with the energy of the prayer and was dirrected in my dads diection at the perfect time to notice the expired inspection sticker on his car at the dead of night...
what ever the case may be i dont belive there is a god and if prayer is just a dirrecting of energy then i guess my dad is really pissed off when he prayes and send off negative energy that or god really does exist and he hates my dad.. (god must be such a prick then)
probably its just a load of bull and coincidence
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:38:09 GMT -5
Post by newschooled on Nov 9, 2010 14:38:09 GMT -5
Also, I think "Will of God" is an absolutist theistic term. The alternate theory is that like stated, prayer is centered around directing energy within the collective cosmos. This principal coincides rather flawlessly with the laws of quantum physics. ^^Biggest waste of paper ever. ...I don't get it
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:42:56 GMT -5
Post by Breepop on Nov 9, 2010 14:42:56 GMT -5
Maybe.
The actual act of praying may work (you pray for something, and it wills yourself subconsciously towards what you are praying for... or if you're praying for someone and you tell them, it gives them hope and more confidence to get better or whatever), I don't know. But as for prayer being a way to communicate with God, and God directly answering your prayers? Probably not.
I'm not religious at all, but I still "pray." Not like, kneeling at the side of my bed with my hands together prayer, but "Please let me do well on this test D:" prayer. XD I'm praying to myself, really, or I guess... if there is some god or energy or mumbojumbo that I can influence by just thinking things, I'm praying to that. *shrug*
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:46:02 GMT -5
Post by newschooled on Nov 9, 2010 14:46:02 GMT -5
i dont know... however every time my dad prays he is given some sort of ill fate... now either his timeing is terrible which it could easily be or when he prayed for a easy work week god struck him down and gave him blood poisoning or when he prayed that he would have enough in his next pay check to pay child support the cop was hit with the energy of the prayer and was dirrected in my dads diection at the perfect time to notice the expired inspection sticker on his car at the dead of night... what ever the case may be i dont belive there is a god and if prayer is just a dirrecting of energy then i guess my dad is really pissed off when he prayes and send off negative energy that or god really does exist and he hates my dad.. (god must be such a prick then) probably its just a load of bull and coincidence I think this is a little different. You're taking separate unrelated events and trying to force a way to link them. I doubt your dad got a ticket because God wanted to spite his wanting to make child support. Your dad got a ticket because he didn't renew his registration.As for other things like what you mentioned, keep in mind, bad things happen to EVERYONE. For example, I just lost my mom to cancer. But I really doubt God did that because I prayed for things to turn up roses.
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Cortney
Star
[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
The Bown
Posts: 885
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 14:53:13 GMT -5
Post by Cortney on Nov 9, 2010 14:53:13 GMT -5
It seems like some of you guys view prayer as more of a "power of positive thinking" deal. If that's the case, I do try to "pray."
If you think the worst will happen and let that depress you, then that will affect the outcome because you'll behave differently (unless it has nothing to do with your actions, but whatevz).
Thinking positively makes you happier and sometimes leads to better results, so why the hell not? =P
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 15:12:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 15:12:16 GMT -5
This also applies to prayer.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 15:53:21 GMT -5
Post by krzych32 on Nov 9, 2010 15:53:21 GMT -5
^^Biggest waste of paper ever. ...I don't get it It's a book (and a movie) about an idea that if you really want something and believe you will get it.....then you will. Oprah is on this wagon so it must be true.
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Flappy
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Grrr! But not really....
Posts: 577
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 16:32:26 GMT -5
Post by Flappy on Nov 9, 2010 16:32:26 GMT -5
No, prayer is basically the same as saying to someone who is paralyzed from the waist down "WALK! DAMN YOU! WALK!" It isn't going to make any difference.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 18:53:10 GMT -5
Post by amon91 on Nov 9, 2010 18:53:10 GMT -5
If you believe something will work, often times it will (research 'placebo effect'). But that's not necessarily caused by some higher being, which I happen not to believe in.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 18:56:18 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Nov 9, 2010 18:56:18 GMT -5
If you believe something will work, often times it will (research 'placebo effect'). But that's not necessarily caused by some higher being, which I happen not to believe in. I thought placebo was when the person was led to believe that it worked, not that it actually worked itself?
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 19:58:37 GMT -5
Post by krzych32 on Nov 9, 2010 19:58:37 GMT -5
If you believe something will work, often times it will (research 'placebo effect'). But that's not necessarily caused by some higher being, which I happen not to believe in. The only effect placebo has is on your own body, not on the outside world. Also, just because someone thinks they are better doesn't mean they actually are.
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 20:16:38 GMT -5
Post by qooqǝɯɐƃ on Nov 9, 2010 20:16:38 GMT -5
I think George Carlin explains it quite well
(He talks about prayer at 5:29)
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 20:40:40 GMT -5
Post by Lex on Nov 9, 2010 20:40:40 GMT -5
If you believe something will work, often times it will (research 'placebo effect'). But that's not necessarily caused by some higher being, which I happen not to believe in. The only effect placebo has is on your own body, not on the outside world. Also, just because someone thinks they are better doesn't mean they actually are. So I suppose placebo applies when someone prays to end something like an addiction.
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Camoon
Star
[AWD:01020307]
Trust your pilot, respect your monkey.
Posts: 574
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 21:19:01 GMT -5
Post by Camoon on Nov 9, 2010 21:19:01 GMT -5
The only effect placebo has is on your own body, not on the outside world. Also, just because someone thinks they are better doesn't mean they actually are. So I suppose placebo applies when someone prays to end something like an addiction. Or takes homeopathic medicine to cure ball cramp or something. RPositive thinking does affect your actions in a positive way, so things like praying/the secret etc. DO work, just not in they way you think they do.
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Flappy
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Grrr! But not really....
Posts: 577
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PRAYER
Nov 9, 2010 21:19:33 GMT -5
Post by Flappy on Nov 9, 2010 21:19:33 GMT -5
The placebo effect is simply when a person believes something that has no power to change them (or the person who is the target of the placebo) actually will change them. (Usually meant to help or heal, or do something for the better).
A placebo (in pharmacy or medecine) is a water or sugar pill given to a patient who is told it is some sort of medecine that will heal them.
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PRAYER
Nov 10, 2010 16:42:24 GMT -5
Post by amon91 on Nov 10, 2010 16:42:24 GMT -5
If you believe something will work, often times it will (research 'placebo effect'). But that's not necessarily caused by some higher being, which I happen not to believe in. The only effect placebo has is on your own body, not on the outside world. Also, just because someone thinks they are better doesn't mean they actually are. People can often pray to do well at a job interview, or an exam, or just accomplishing something they aspire to. Believing that there's a good looking out for them might actually lead people to do better by not feeling as scared/insecure. Can it affect outside events or actually change things meaningfully? As an atheist I'll have to say no to that one.
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