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Post by Ryan on Mar 7, 2010 21:42:42 GMT -5
Are you religious? I used to be, and then I fell on an electric fence and died. There was no afterlife for me - perhaps I didn't die for long enough to pass to the afterlife, but I lost my faith in the words of a book written by a man more than 100 years after the death of the person the words speak of. Which religion are you? I used to be Catholic - though I was raised to accept any religion as my mother is Jewish Do you think religion is a necessary part of society? Sociologically speaking - at our current state of society, religion is necessary for some people. Why do we have religion? Humans have a developmental need to feel justified in their thoughts and actions, and while higher forms of rational thought and discourse can provide this justification (morals beyond those formed by religion), there are people who need to believe in a greater power of existence (people who use religious morals).
Might I address one thing I noticed in this thread. Science can be explained physically, and thus empirically. Religion is metaphysical and can't be studied or explained by physical means. But most people here seem to take from religion, not the metaphysical aspect of it, but more so their morals, what to do and not to do. This is not metaphysics, and in fact does not rely on a greater power or even anything relating to the universe. Morals are discussed in the branch of philosophy called Ethics and is a non-relation to religion. So if as a society our purpose for religion is solely to reach moral justification, then we have grown out of the sociological need for religion.
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Post by sophie9116 on Mar 8, 2010 12:47:48 GMT -5
I'm a Christian (Anglican Church) and I'd just like to say that I do think religion is necessary in society. Whether you believe in the Bible/Koran/Torah or any other theological book doesn't really matter because we all have different beliefs, but they do all teach you to be honest good etc. and this will affect you in everyday life and it's necessary for people to believe in these rules so that not everyone ends up robbing people or whatever.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 8, 2010 13:41:09 GMT -5
because we all have different beliefs, but they do all teach you to be honest good Define "good".
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The Doctor
Moon
I wear my sunglasses at night
Posts: 147
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 8, 2010 13:47:19 GMT -5
Sophie, Im not religous at all, I dont believe, neither does my parents, and I still dont go around doing immoral or unethical stuff. Yet there are alot of people that are raised by religous parents that and are religious that actually do rob/kill/whatnot. It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with how you were raised and your education and what your current situation is, right now for example I have less than 300 dollars a month (have had for almost a year now) to pay my rent, buy food/clothes/necessities/schoolbooks and so on, and I still dont steal, eventhough that wouldve made my life sooo much easier. I know alot of people in my situation, and neither of them would even think about commiting crimes, because they have empathy and care for other people, nothing of that is exclusive to religion, have never been and will never be!
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Post by mrshneeblee on Mar 8, 2010 23:06:02 GMT -5
I agree with Tyme4aNewDay, religion is a byproduct of the human consciousness to make us more comfortable with ourselves to know that someone is always watching us and our destinies are already layed before us. As for the whole moral stand on religion, I don't believe we need to believe in a being high in the sky who sets forth 10 rules to learn what is moral and what is immoral.
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bleabot
Moon
Set phazors to dance, Mr. Warf.
Posts: 109
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Post by bleabot on Mar 9, 2010 17:17:31 GMT -5
our destinies are already layed before us. I agree with you for the most part, but I just had to point out that I personally find this terrifying. I would hate to have everything planned out. This isn't because I want control...it just makes life so hopeless and pointless, in my opinion, if everything will always happen because someone else planned it. It's so much more comforting to believe that our actions are unique and have impact.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 9, 2010 18:12:16 GMT -5
Think of it like this bleabot, every choice you make determines your destiny and thus determines your future.
But you've already made all the choices.
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Post by swan on Mar 9, 2010 19:40:13 GMT -5
But you've already made all the choices. I like to think otherwise, but either way it all plays out the same.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on Mar 9, 2010 23:52:34 GMT -5
If science is right about their crazy multi-dimensional theory, the future may not be as solidly defined as we think. Though I don't imagine they have much evidence in favour of it as of yet, if it even turns out that they're correct.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 9, 2010 23:55:16 GMT -5
If science is right about multi-dimensional theory, then time is not well defined and there is no such thing as future or past with the exception of relativistic distance to the current point in a given timeline - but this strays from the argument of religion.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 10, 2010 12:19:55 GMT -5
religion is dumb
used be people to keep people sane and to prevent lost people from commiting crimes.
horray socialization of the masses.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 10, 2010 13:53:21 GMT -5
without socialization of the masses - this forum would not exist zAk so...don't bash too hard
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 10, 2010 23:55:15 GMT -5
without socialization of the masses - this forum would not exist zAk so...don't bash too hard you still don't realize that I can semantic my way out of any situation. I did not say that mass socialization was bad.
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Post by mr mac on Mar 11, 2010 0:20:24 GMT -5
Oh this is a brilliant question hugz for the person that asked this one. I think religion over the years has given people a relatively reliable moral compass where in some cases the world was far from a fair place to live.
Situational ethics would determine that today we are capable of making our own moral judgements without religion although i think that does not apply to some. Whilst many people would be able to determine what they think is right and wrong in any situation, that moral judgement would have most likely been shaped by the law of western civilisation which is based on christian values.
Overall I believe that we are capable of making our own moral judgements but for some people the influence of society clouds their judgements of what can be right and what can be wrong. So all in all I think religion still plays a key role in our society but if it was suddenly forgotton or unaccepted, our world would be just fine morally without it.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 11, 2010 0:24:03 GMT -5
Considering that morality is almost entirely based off of christian values, your post holds no water.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 11, 2010 0:56:05 GMT -5
@zak from before - your sarcasm implied that socialization of the masses was bad: though it apparently was not your intent. mb
@zak from now - how does the post hold no value? and have religious people ever stopped to wonder if morality is not entirely based off of Christian values, but Christian values are entirely based in morality?
10 commandments aren't Christian, and they are the big laws of Christian morality. The new testament has few rules in it, the old testament (which is not Christian) is basically a rule book for how to live your life and make the right decisions.
We associate certain things with Christian values, but fail to look at where these values were based, and where these bases are based on, etc. etc. Far before the foundation of Judaism, there were "Christian values" otherwise they would not have been written down time and time again.
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Post by swan on Mar 11, 2010 1:59:16 GMT -5
I'm no theologian, but isn't Christianity heavily influenced by Plato?
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Post by Dimstow on Mar 11, 2010 6:19:49 GMT -5
* Are you religious? Yes and no, My family is very religious and I support religion whole heartily, but due to some personal reasons, I rejected my denomination and later the entire christian religion, though that is not to say the Bible.
* Which religion are you? Again it's kind of confusing, I've developed my own personal views after reading the Bible, Qur'an, Book of Mormon, and Chinese Buddism. I spent a large part of my life reading these and developing my views from them but if you needed to give a title I typically go with 'Spiritual Agnostic' * Do you think religion is a necessary part of society? I think that religion is a necessary part of Society currently, I think that religion allows people to give tangible and graspable reasons to events,actions and results of those, and grasp which most of the world still needs and can't seem to get anywhere else. But I do think that religion will become a thing of the past eventually * Why do we have religion? Or, if you are religious, what purpose does it serve in your life? In my life religion is the series of beliefs/values through which I act, rather than view religion as a set of rules which a deity has told me I have to follow, I use the Values, that I have come to view as my own personal religious truth, as a personal guide to be the person who I want, choose and 'should' be
As for why we have it, I think the 'point' of religion was a set forth a moral guide, a series of rules for people to follow that would lead them down the correct path to only be functional in a society but to be 'good' people. But I think eventually we'll come to a level of societal, and scientific understanding that we just won't need it.
If any of that is confusing please feel free to PM me, I'm sure I can give a better explanation when it's not 5 a.m.
Oi I need to start sleeping....
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 11, 2010 8:50:32 GMT -5
zAk from now - how does the post hold no value? and have religious people ever stopped to wonder if morality is not entirely based off of Christian values, but Christian values are entirely based in morality? I wrote an entire research paper on this topic last year. The morality that we know today would not be the same if we had not encompassed Christian values with it. Because Christianity was formed during the same time that basic civilization was forming, and most of the people during these earlier times were Catholic (I honestly don't know what the difference is between Catholic and Christian and I tend to use them interchangibly), it had a major impact on the start of what would be considered moral and what wouldn't be. This transfers over a couple hundred years, a few things have changed, we have changed and adapted to our new society but overall our morals are still deeply rooted in Christian morals. You cannot say that because we adhere to these morals. You're not moral because you are christian, you just christian. Sorry, no gold stars for you.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 11, 2010 10:41:21 GMT -5
Ahh I see. Well that doesn't change the fact that Christian morals are even more deeply rooted than 2000 years ago. But you make a very good point.
(btw: Catholicism is the first sect of Christianity. After Martin Luther and the Protestant reformation, the notion of Christian came to signify anyone who followed Christ's teachings. To this day Catholicism is looked down upon and considered un-Christian by some because it's teachings are centered around the Eucharist and not around the bible. Most Catholics would agree that their denomination of Christianity is the most Christ-like as it celebrates the Eucharist which is considered Christ's greatest gift to humanity.)
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