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Post by Rob on Apr 16, 2010 17:32:50 GMT -5
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)
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Post by mashuga31 on Apr 16, 2010 20:47:28 GMT -5
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Post by Trey on Apr 16, 2010 20:49:57 GMT -5
nah we are all the keepers of awesome... "people who can move and close threads" As well as deleting content that violates the rules  . I think if a moderator sees something like that, they should have the authority to delete the post. After all, there IS a big difference between a moderator and an administrator. Essentially, it is the duty of the moderator to manage the day-to-day affairs of a forum or board as it applies to the stream of user contributions and interactions. So, that means enforcing the rules and keeping the forum clean from spam. The administrators manage the technical details required for running the forum. Basically, their job is to manage the rules, promote/demote mods, create/delete boards, and perform database operations. Admins sometimes act as mods, but it shouldn't be their primary job. |
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 16, 2010 23:22:14 GMT -5
I'd like to build on what Trey said. Besides all of that, admins are also the acting leaders of our community in general. They act as role models, and they keep the tribe moving in the right direction because Dan can't be on all the time. Dan eventually wants this site to be more separate from his personal following, and when that eventually happens, the admins will be the leaders more than Dan. They'll keep us focused and on task.
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Cortney
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[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
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Post by Cortney on Apr 17, 2010 6:45:55 GMT -5
I'd like to build on what Trey said. Besides all of that, admins are also the acting leaders of our community in general. They act as role models, and they keep the tribe moving in the right direction because Dan can't be on all the time. Dan eventually wants this site to be more separate from his personal following, and when that eventually happens, the admins will be the leaders more than Dan. They'll keep us focused and on task. Hai, ur smart. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2010 12:57:58 GMT -5
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Gesh
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Mishap Molly Cordell
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Post by Gesh on Apr 17, 2010 15:29:10 GMT -5
Ha, and here I thought he said he'd stop spamming... XD |
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 18, 2010 17:43:03 GMT -5
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) Everyone quotes that and just because Shakespeare wrote it it's supposed to be sacred. Lets not forget it was said by a teenage character who died because of what a name represented. The words we give things have a huge effect on how we think of them. Think of "invalid" as a word for a person with a disability. Think of why we say African or Black now instead of "negro." Think of the difference between Gay and "bent". Words are really important, they are not only affected by our mindset and culture but also affect these things in turn. Moderator and admin roles should not be what elevates a person above the community and that should be evident in the title. Nothing should elevate us above the community. There are natural leaders here and I'm thinking now that Dan is one of them, as I said before leaders have to emerge, there was another thread about board hierarchy and the fact that people think of the admins as their leaders was sad. There are people here who I admire would follow and trust to lead me and they aren't necessarily admins, nor should they be.. because that is not the role of admin. I mean the admins are great and doing a great job, but they are just members of the community like the rest of us. Most of the members here are involved in some project or other and I think the technical running of the board and troll-watch is a project of the admins. There is the problem that we think of mods and admins as higher. That we think of promotion as a synonym of "upgrade" and antonym of "downgrade" There should be no up and down among us. The next problem is what the position does to people. I think this "promotion" will automatically downgrade anyone who manages to get to level four back to a level three. You will feel honored and exalted, you will hold a higher position in the community than the others and you will think of them as a rabble that it is your job to control. You will have five stars next to your name and you will expect that anyone who sees this will automatically respect you. You will think it is acceptable to leave one word answers in threads. "No." You will disagree without discussion or explanation. You will feel once your answer is given the discussion is over. you will feel that is enough because you are a moderator and you have a secret knowledge and understanding of the community the others lack. Most of the people here, or at least most of the people over the age of 12, will have been resident on message boards before. They are familiar with the "moderator" model. Moderators are generally people we admire, the chosen ones, people we wanted to be accepted by. Negativity from a moderator can have disastrous effects. It makes you think you are an enemy of the entire community, and a lot of people take a great deal of joy in filling that role. I don't think that anyone in our community should receive automatic respect and exaltation until everyone in our community receives automatic respect and exaltation . |
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Cortney
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[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
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Post by Cortney on Apr 18, 2010 17:57:15 GMT -5
Moderator and admin roles should not be what elevates a person above the community and that should be evident in the title. Nothing should elevate us above the community. There are natural leaders here and I'm thinking now that Dan is one of them, as I said before leaders have to emerge, there was another thread about board hierarchy and the fact that people think of the admins as their leaders was sad. There are people here who I admire would follow and trust to lead me and they aren't necessarily admins, nor should they be.. because that is not the role of admin. I mean the admins are great and doing a great job, but they are just members of the community like the rest of us. Most of the members here are involved in some project or other and I think the technical running of the board and troll-watch is a project of the admins.I bolded what I'm responding to. As admins, we are indeed leaders. We are not better than any members, of course, but it is our job to be role models and to be visionaries for the forum. This is how our job differs from normal admins on other forums. We are really getting to the point where you can't relate any position on this forum to any ol' forum on the net. It'd different. We're not here to troll-watch. We'll have moderators for that soon (soon enough...) anyway. I don't think any of these things, and anyone that we choose to be admin wouldn't think these things either. If this is how you feel about the administrators, I really hope you try and see what we really are... |
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Post by Rob on Apr 18, 2010 18:00:08 GMT -5
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) Everyone quotes that and just because Shakespeare wrote it it's supposed to be sacred. Lets not forget it was said by a teenage character who died because of what a name represented. I quoted it because it's exactly what I wanted to say and it's what I believe. And he didn't die because of what a "name" represented, he died because of horrific rivalries between families. His name wouldn't have mattered so long as he was a part of that family. Regarding "invalid," "negro" & "bent": I really think those examples are out of place here. "Moderator" is not a slanderous term meant to offend; rather, it's simply a word explaining the function of that person. Also, I don't think of anyone here any differently based on what their permissions are. If others see such labels and change their perspective of someone, that's no fault of the person with the rank. To strive towards being level 4 and 5, we ALL need to start thinking differently. We ALL need to work on our personal bias and the way we perceive things. We ALL need to work on how quickly we react to things. We ALL need to realize the reason we're here and we ALL need to figure out how to work together civilly. Also, if we're going to use admins/mods, I mean, come on, it doesn't matter what we call them. Everyone knows what they are and what they can do here. That's really the point I'm trying to make. |
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 18, 2010 18:25:17 GMT -5
you both have valid points. a mod/admin is simply a person who is responsible for keeping the forum in order. they still have the same obligations to civility and common decency as any other member. their status does not set them apart. it merely gives them a responsibility. it does not in any make them better than any other member. an feeling of an elevated status on the part of an admin/mod is sheer arrogance. nothing more. while it is true, that admins/mods do have more authority than your average member, that authority should only be used when absolutely necessary, such as banning, or breaking up a petty flame war. a mod.admin is NOT to go around a forum flaunting his/her authority and status. that is the mark of a person who is unable to properly handle responsibility and authority.
what we call the, as rob said, is of no consequence. we all know who and what they are, and dancing around that is just being petulant, and is unwilling to acknowledge the responsibility and authority that the mod/admin does indeed have.
as for one word answers...if you are a mod/admin, don't do it. it reflects badly on you, and annoys people. others see an admin posting a one word "no" in a thread and they leave it alone, getting the impression that the idea has been officially nixed. this is very counterproductive to any forum especially one such as ours. posting a one word "no" is extremely rude for anyone to do. we are here to PROMOTE ideas, not quash them. posting a one word "no" suppresses that idea. posting an explanation as to why you disagree with the idea, promotes and helps to expand the ideas by pointing out its flaws.
whether they like it or not, mods/admins are viewed differently by the community than any other member. whether they are looked up to, respected, feared, or even hated, the attitude towards them will always be different that that of any other member. with great power comes great responsibility, and some of that responsibility, is maintaining good public relations. that means, that a mod/admin must always conduct him/herself in a dignified and cordial manner on a forum. they must avoid unnecessary confrontation. and most importantly, they must not use their status as a trump card against other members. this is paramount.
i know some of the mods/admins may be reading this and saying how unfair this is, but that is the job. its a package deal. you get the good with the bad. if you want to be a mod/admin, you must give up some of your liberties on the forum. you cannot troll. you cannot be obscene. you must hold yourself to a higher standard of behavior and decorum. to any mod/admin who finds this too difficult, i offer you two solutions. the first being, to quit. the second being to make a second account. i have seen this one on many blogs, forums, and message boards to great effect. no one but the other mods/admins know who really owns those accounts, and no one else should know. this allows the mods/admins to conduct themselves as regular members while still fulfilling their duties as an admin. i would recommend the second option.
i hope this post has been informative and helpful.
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Cortney
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Post by Cortney on Apr 18, 2010 19:39:30 GMT -5
Okay, I'm getting a wee bit annoyed by the members telling the admins that they are arrogant and doing things incorrectly. We made a mistake choosing the new admins and we've made mistakes with secrecy. No one has been arrogant and we are not abusing these "one word posts" you guys keep talking about.
Trolling and rudeness are not okay for regular members OR admins. These are not "liberties."
I may sound bitchy and I apologize if I do. I'm just sick and tired of everybody taking this Karson issue as a chance to openly insult the way the admins work. We've seen our mistakes and we've learned from them. We don't need you guys trying to complain about our flaws, especially ones that aren't really there.
Give us some time to improve, THEN you can tell us if we're doing it wrong. Constantly saying we're doing our job wrong will get us nowhere.
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Post by Rob on Apr 18, 2010 19:52:26 GMT -5
Okay, I'm getting a wee bit annoyed by the members telling the admins that they are arrogant and doing things incorrectly. We made a mistake choosing the new admins and we've made mistakes with secrecy. No one has been arrogant and we are not abusing these "one word posts" you guys keep talking about. Trolling and rudeness are not okay for regular members OR admins. These are not "liberties." I may sound bitchy and I apologize if I do. I'm just sick and tired of everybody taking this Karson issue as a chance to openly insult the way the admins work. We've seen our mistakes and we've learned from them. We don't need you guys trying to complain about our flaws, especially ones that aren't really there. Give us some time to improve, THEN you can tell us if we're doing it wrong. Constantly saying we're doing our job wrong will get us nowhere. You have every right to feel this way. Don't apologize for your tone. I'm sure I'd have the same thoughts if I were in your shoes. I think that those members who disagreed with how things went down recently handled it totally wrong. Such disparaging remarks (made against the admins) should have been done in a private manner. I never mentioned how much of a bad taste was left in my mouth after reading all of the public negative discourse that took place. Due to my laziness and short attention span, I have decided not to read your lengthy post.: If you have a problem with how an admin (or mod in the future) is doing their job, talk to them first, privately (PM, Skype, etc.). There's no need to build any kind of negative bandwagon like that (if that guy can do it, I can do it!). I mean, come on. |
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Post by bombmaniac on Apr 18, 2010 20:40:33 GMT -5
cortney...i was not talking about anyone specific, i was merely saying what an admin should be anywhere on the internet.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 19, 2010 7:23:48 GMT -5
Okay, I'm getting a wee bit annoyed by the members telling the admins that they are arrogant and doing things incorrectly. We made a mistake choosing the new admins and we've made mistakes with secrecy. No one has been arrogant and we are not abusing these "one word posts" you guys keep talking about. Trolling and rudeness are not okay for regular members OR admins. These are not "liberties." I may sound bitchy and I apologize if I do. I'm just sick and tired of everybody taking this Karson issue as a chance to openly insult the way the admins work. We've seen our mistakes and we've learned from them. We don't need you guys trying to complain about our flaws, especially ones that aren't really there.Give us some time to improve, THEN you can tell us if we're doing it wrong. Constantly saying we're doing our job wrong will get us nowhere. See what I mean? I wasn't talking about anyone in particular, I wasn't even talking about this message board, just things that I have seen happening again and again. I actually wrote all that when I was only here 3 days, i had planned to make a video about it, but i predicted you would be a self-focused and short sighted reaction to it (in other words i knew people would misunderstand overeat and take it personally) and decided not to say anything until I could word it more diplomatically. I'm not even aware of the "Karson issue". This was a thread where similar views were being expressed and i decided (I see now wrongly) to share mine as well. I like all the admins, I think they're doing their job of managing the boards well, but it's the way we view them that is mixed up. You are a regular member. |
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Cortney
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[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
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Post by Cortney on Apr 19, 2010 7:33:48 GMT -5
I honestly think you're searching for things to argue about, but I'm not saying I'm right.
Either way, I don't want to fight with you or any other member. Like I said, the admins have recognized our problems and are trying to fix them. All I ask is that you give us some time to show you how we plan to behave in the future, then you can tell us if you still think we're behaving inappropriately.
Until then, this entire argument is a bit pointless. Everything you're saying is based on the admins as they have acted in the past, and we are changing. So yeah, give us a chance.
Adios.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on Apr 19, 2010 8:00:51 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to fight or argue, i am sorry you saw it that way and that you took it so personally when it wasn't intended that way at all.
This is general comments about the way the board could work, this is the suggestions forum after all.
I do not think you are or were behaving inappropriately and i never said I thought so. You are putting words in my mouth.
Please try and understand my view and what I am trying to explain. I promise it is a positive view and just about how we can all have a better relationship with each other. It is not about you.
I think you feel determined to be hurt by what i write, because somehow you have come to expect that now. And so determined are you that I am against you that you never took time to understand what I was trying to say, which was never about you at all.
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Post by Breepop on Apr 19, 2010 8:41:50 GMT -5
There are natural leaders here and I'm thinking now that Dan is one of them, as I said before leaders have to emerge, there was another thread about board hierarchy and the fact that people think of the admins as their leaders was sad. There are people here who I admire would follow and trust to lead me and they aren't necessarily admins, nor should they be.. because that is not the role of admin.Yes it is. xD I don't know if you still stand by that, but I just happened to notice that you basically laid out the role of the admin, then directly said that's not our role. So. Er. Yeah. SORRY IF I'M BEHIND IN THIS DISCUSSION. LOTS OF WORDS, YKNOW. |
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Post by Trey on Apr 19, 2010 9:52:19 GMT -5
Ya know what this thread is doing? Spiraling down into an abyss of emotionally driven argumentation, bull SHIRT, and frustration  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 10:13:10 GMT -5
*grabs popcorn and watches*
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