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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 5:26:48 GMT -5
Post by rialvestro on May 5, 2010 5:26:48 GMT -5
You have not broken the same law but you have broken the law. That is what sin is. The point of the law in the garden of eden was that it was rebellion against God. You miss the point entirely. You, I, and everyone else who has ever and will ever live were given a punishment for a sin that non of us have ever committed. Eating a piece of fruit. At least that's what the bible says. That's the equivilant of you stealing a piece of fruit so for your punishment I'm going to break your arms. But that's not all. I'm not just going to break your arms but your kids arms, and your grandchildren's arms and great grand children and this is going to continue of forever and ever just because you stole a stupid piece of fruit. It wouldn't matter if you kids did anything illegal or not I'm going to break their arms anyway because you did. The punishment I speak of is for a sin I never committed not a sin I have commeted so it doesn't matter if I sin or not because I'm being punished either way. There's no myth about it. There were a couple Greek philosiphers who believed that but the general population never respected him. Columbus was the first one to actually prove it. Up until then it was nothing more than a theory most people never seriously believed in. The first people who came up with the idea were ridiculed. Columbus himself was ridiculed as well but he managed to prove it as a fact where no one else could. Quite the oppisite. If the angel explaination is not widely believed then where the heck did religion come from in the first place. Someone had to believe it in order to start a largly populated religion around it. If no one believed it religion wouldn't exsist.
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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 5:57:39 GMT -5
Post by michaelt1987 on May 5, 2010 5:57:39 GMT -5
You miss the point entirely. You, I, and everyone else who has ever and will ever live were given a punishment for a sin that non of us have ever committed. Eating a piece of fruit. At least that's what the bible says. No, it doesnt. It says we are seperated from God because of our sin. That was the first sin, but its not as if anyone (with one exception) since has been perfect. The Bible does not say we are being seperated from God in this life because of Adams sin, but because of our own. We're not perfect, nor can we claim to be able to make ourselves perfect, which is why we are not in the garden now. God saw that, and was saddened by that, which is why he made it possible for us to go back, via Jesus. There's no myth about it. There were a couple Greek philosiphers who believed that but the general population never respected him. Columbus was the first one to actually prove it. Up until then it was nothing more than a theory most people never seriously believed in. No, it was widely believed in anchient Greece. The uneducated did not, but you must remember that at that time, the uneducated could not read. The first people who came up with the idea were ridiculed. Columbus himself was ridiculed as well but he managed to prove it as a fact where no one else could. Coloumbus did not claim to have proved it. Those who believed in a flat earth at the time merely said that he had proved the flat earth was circular. Quite the oppisite. If the angel explaination is not widely believed then where the heck did religion come from in the first place. Someone had to believe it in order to start a largly populated religion around it. If no one believed it religion wouldn't exsist. You missed my point. If people were guilible and stupid back then, and would believe anyone who said "an angel did it" when they got pregnant out of wedlock, then surely we'd see far far more examples of that excuse being used. The fact that we don't shows, contary to your suggestion, that people were not guilible fools.
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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 5:59:33 GMT -5
Post by michaelt1987 on May 5, 2010 5:59:33 GMT -5
The punishment I speak of is for a sin I never committed not a sin I have commeted so it doesn't matter if I sin or not because I'm being punished either way. And what punishment is that?
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 11:46:43 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 5, 2010 11:46:43 GMT -5
Jesus was in no way perfect. Great, maybe. Perfect, no. Even he wasn't yet beyond slavery and treating women as possessions.
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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 14:14:27 GMT -5
Post by rialvestro on May 5, 2010 14:14:27 GMT -5
No, it doesnt. It says we are seperated from God because of our sin. That was the first sin, but its not as if anyone (with one exception) since has been perfect. The Bible does not say we are being seperated from God in this life because of Adams sin, but because of our own. We're not perfect, nor can we claim to be able to make ourselves perfect, which is why we are not in the garden now. God saw that, and was saddened by that, which is why he made it possible for us to go back, via Jesus. Yes it does. According to the bible we have all sinned before any of were ever even concived because of Adam and Eve, not because of or own actions. Adam and Eve eating that stupid apple is what got all of humanity kicked out of the garden of eden. Adam and Eve eating that stupid apple is why we are all able to feel pain. Adam and Eve eating that stupid apple is why we all die. This punishment is for a sin we did not commit. If we're being punished for our own sins that doesn't make sense either but how can we be punished before we've even committed the crime? By your logic we should all be born into the Garden of Eden and live like Adam and Eve until we commit sin. Sense that's not that the case our own sin has nothing to do with it, it's the sin of Adam and Eve that caused our torment not our own. Many people commit sin because they're already being punished for. If you're going to be punished for a crime then there has to be a crime. Thus because we're being punished God is forcing us to sin. Either way you look at it God is an ass hole punishing people for crap they never did. Dude this is well documented in history. Yes it's true about the uneducated. Back then only the rich could afford an education. However science, for educated people, is about proving facts. No one in Greece ever proved that the Earth was round and there were only a few people who believed it. Educated or not, you can not teach what can not be proven and at that time, it couldn't be proven. It was widely believed that the Earth was flat until Columbus proved it. As much as I would like to give credit to my own people the Greeks did not prove it as fact. I never said anything about who claimed it and it's irrelivent. The fact is it's well documented in history. People thought Columbus was going to sale off the edge of the Earth, they thought he was crazy but he did it anyway and the funny part is it wasn't even his intention to prove the Earth was round, he was just trying to find a quicker rout to India and accidently discovered America and proved the Earth was round. It's not as simple as just saying "an angel did it" in order to get people to believe that their baby was the son of God they would have to plan ahead of time and figure out how to perform fake miracles. That's hard to replicate.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 16:10:49 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 5, 2010 16:10:49 GMT -5
Actually, you can credit Magellan with that proof, not Columbus, although Magellan sadly died before he could see his journey to its very end. (The crew completed it, what survived of them.)
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tulae
Meteorite
Posts: 30
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Jesus!
May 5, 2010 19:48:11 GMT -5
Post by tulae on May 5, 2010 19:48:11 GMT -5
THE ORIGIN OF RELIGION
This video works through how jesus is not only fictitious, but plagaristically.
It works through how all religions in the european area (abrahamic, greek/roman, babylonian, etc.) draw their herritage from ancient egyptian religion, and from that, astrology: telling the future from the stars
the whole Zeitgeist series is extremely eye-opening, an existential revelation. (zeitgeist a german word directly translated as time ghost, or spirit of the times). it takes all (or many, i don't know) of the misconceptions of our times, and exposes them with facts and keen observations.
Thanks, Tanner
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Jesus!
May 8, 2010 21:15:04 GMT -5
Post by speedyreedy on May 8, 2010 21:15:04 GMT -5
So CS Lewis was close, but missed out the fourth "L".
Liar Lunatic Lord Legend
Hmm?
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tulae
Meteorite
Posts: 30
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Jesus!
May 12, 2010 20:34:56 GMT -5
Post by tulae on May 12, 2010 20:34:56 GMT -5
yeah i guess he did
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Jesus!
May 18, 2010 2:20:22 GMT -5
Post by mjbedwards on May 18, 2010 2:20:22 GMT -5
As someone who has studied History, English and Philosophy at various levels of education, as well as a Christian, heres what i think about God, the bible and such... (not that this makes me an authority - just a collection on my opinions)
1. I do not believe that everything written in the bible is written to be historically accurate. Best example here would be Johns Gospel. Almost every scholar will tell you that this gospel doesnt run in historical or geographical order (Dude-Jesus has a TARDIS if he can get around this quick) but they believe its author was attempting to convey his believes regarding his views of the Christ. If that is true, then it is in someway Political, and should be viewed as such, with a great deal of consideration and thought, not just accepting it as a given, just because God said so.
2. It was written a heck of a long time ago, when culture was completely different, as were their expectations as well as emphasis in society upon religion. That CANNOT be ignored when you read the bible, as much as some Christians try to
3. I agree with Dan - no God I chose to believe in is sending people to hell for either not knowing of him or being raised in a culture where he wasnt an option. How about the God of compassion and understanding? And if the creation story is in anyway true, he did make us all, so is he reaaalllllly going to be wanting to send his creation to the trash can... me thinks not. The God in the OTestament, before he got some anger management therapy or something, was clearly what the Jews wanted - an angry father figure who would punish them when they did something wrong, or smite those who would seek to harm his chosen people. Common place thought on God now is the compassionate father figure - love and guidance, and a lot less of the smite-ing, which I am all for.
Anyway, thats just my opinion. feel free to comment. loving debate. x
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AkeR
Moon
Mah name iz Tom and i liek to maek pikturez on wallz ^_^
Posts: 182
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Jesus!
May 18, 2010 6:34:32 GMT -5
Post by AkeR on May 18, 2010 6:34:32 GMT -5
if jesus was so special, why didnt his daddy magic a couple of empty rooms when they came to the inn?
take that christianity!
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Jesus!
May 18, 2010 15:36:11 GMT -5
Post by Nakor on May 18, 2010 15:36:11 GMT -5
if jesus was so special, why didnt his daddy magic a couple of empty rooms when they came to the inn? take that christianity! Edward Current? Is that you?
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