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Post by Drenched on Jul 31, 2010 12:55:35 GMT -5
How do you explain nature? During the big bang all of the matter just happened to form into trees, water, air, earth? Yes mathematically there has to be many places in the universe that supports life, but how many have life on them? Animals, with so many unique abilities. Humans, with so much, and thier brain, which is an amazing thing in of itself. There's my proof that god exists. That's not proof, that's your inability to understand coincidences.
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Post by Drenched on Jul 31, 2010 12:59:50 GMT -5
If you can show me one example in the history of the world of a single religious person who has been able to logically prove the existence of a higher power that has any consciousness or interest in the human race or ability to punish or reward humans for their moral choices or that there is any reason - other than fear - to believe in any version of an afterlife, then I will consider believing in God.
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Post by Ryan on Jul 31, 2010 13:20:02 GMT -5
Drenched - what if a deity doesn't have consciousness or interest in the human race, ability to punish or reward anything. Would you consider that such a deity could exist?
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Post by Enemynarwhal on Jul 31, 2010 15:53:45 GMT -5
I think it's more likely that if a diety exists it probably doesn't care about any of us. It's not like it wouldn't be use to the deaths of smaller life forms by now. If a diety exists is it alive? Thats a much more interesting question than whether or not it exists, I think.
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Post by jmejia1187 on Aug 1, 2010 21:05:34 GMT -5
Drenched - what if a deity doesn't have consciousness or interest in the human race, ability to punish or reward anything. Would you consider that such a deity could exist? I wouldn't, because you just said that there is a god, with no consciousness. An inability to be conscious??? I think consciousness is a prerequisite to be god. But just to be clear, you have made it clear what your god does not have, and what he cannot do. I might be more willing to believe if it was made clear what he can do.
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Post by Ryan on Aug 1, 2010 22:00:21 GMT -5
I have not limited the god in which I believe exists except in one way, it doesn't necessarily care about humans. I simply do not like how most people don't believe in a god, solely base their logic on a god written to be perfect, caring, kind, judgmental, awesome, forgiving, all-knowing, and all-powerful. My logic is based in the fact that, I refuse to believe that the whole beauty of the universe in all of its creation is an accident, and something started it. So, the god I believe in can create a universe filled with beauty.
And consciousness is a human thing. Plants do not have consciousness, yet the constantly clean our air for us, regulate soil erosion, and bring beauty to our world. Does that make them any less awesome or great?
*all uses of the word 'awesome' tend to use the less slangy version and more regular meaning - awe inspiring or fear instilling*
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Post by Lex on Aug 1, 2010 22:01:35 GMT -5
I really doubt that God is perfect at all, just throwing that out there.
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Post by NormanTheOne on Aug 1, 2010 22:06:28 GMT -5
I think perfection is like beauty, it refers to individual's taste. So for someone to be perfect for everyone is impossible, because some see small boobs as perfect, and some see big boobs as perfect (using the beauty metaphor.)
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Post by Ryan on Aug 1, 2010 22:18:07 GMT -5
Please note, the god I believe in isn't perfect
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bullskitur
Planet
Intelligence requires not confusing what you believe with what you know
Posts: 306
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Post by bullskitur on Aug 3, 2010 21:21:43 GMT -5
I really doubt that God is perfect at all, just throwing that out there. Then he is not God
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Post by Ryan on Aug 3, 2010 21:59:14 GMT -5
Why must a deity be perfect?
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Post by Lex on Aug 3, 2010 22:01:08 GMT -5
Why must a deity be perfect? THIS.
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Post by Rogers91 on Aug 4, 2010 3:36:57 GMT -5
who knows maybe there is a god.. but then again maybe there isn't i am going to say it doesn't matter as long as you live your life the way you belive you should you have lived well.. that is the sum of life.. with or without god.
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bullskitur
Planet
Intelligence requires not confusing what you believe with what you know
Posts: 306
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Post by bullskitur on Aug 4, 2010 10:43:52 GMT -5
Why must a deity be perfect? I wasn't talking about deity or a god, I was talking about the christian God and since Alex said "I really doubt that God is perfect at all" not a god but God I assumed he was also talking about the christian God. According to the religion he is perfect in every way. If your question was why must the christian God be perfect ask someone who is actually christian.
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Mr. O
Meteorite
Posts: 39
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Post by Mr. O on Aug 4, 2010 13:05:31 GMT -5
If you will be sent to hell for not being specifically part of his/her/rainstorms' religious sect, who wants to serve such a spiteful and biased God anyway? Their logic => because He would be the ONLY GOD. Therefore, worship is necessary. They have it drilled into their heads that only that brand of God can exist. They do it out of fear, not love. One cannot love such a monster. They believe in some sort of debt that we all owe to their type of monstrous God for being the subject of His creation. We would have to worship Him. To do otherwise is like telling them that you aren't grateful for your life. 2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 "You shall have no other gods before me. The Bible itself implies the existence of other entities. It's not that there are no other gods in the world outside of the Abrahamic one, but rather that the Abrahamic deity is noted to be a jealous god, and doesn't want the others to be worshiped. This actually makes it a bit worse, because it's not that the Abrahamic god punishes you for disbelieving-- which he does-- he also punishes you if you don't pay attention to him. He doesn't want the attention to be divided by both him and, say, Bast or Vulcan. "You shall have no other gods before me" or "beside me". It's also part of why the Christian aspect of it demands devotion. There are other Gods out there-- so to speak-- but it is only Him (as they say) that allows people to cross into the borders of paradise to be with him. Well, only the Christians. The Jews just get stuck in Sheol. Look at most images of an afterlife. You just kind of hang out and do nothing. Hades, Sheol, etc. While it's not a specifically canon religious text, Dante's Inferno featured a level where every good person who had the gross misfortune to be born before the existence of Jesus Christ hung out in Limbo because they hadn't done anything worthy of going Hell, but at the same time couldn't go to Heaven because of circumstance. As a note I'm an atheist that bends philosophically down the absurdist path.
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Post by Lex on Aug 4, 2010 14:06:47 GMT -5
Why must a deity be perfect? I wasn't talking about deity or a god, I was talking about the christian God and since Alex said "I really doubt that God is perfect at all" not a god but God I assumed he was also talking about the christian God. According to the religion he is perfect in every way. If your question was why must the christian God be perfect ask someone who is actually christian. No, I'm talking about God -- as in the God I believe in. I'm a Deist, not a Christian. I never want to be a Christian.
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Post by 4iner on Aug 4, 2010 14:10:57 GMT -5
I think we need to define the word "perfect".
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Post by Lex on Aug 4, 2010 14:47:56 GMT -5
I think we need to define the word "perfect". per·fect [adj] "1 a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless <a perfect diamond> b : satisfying all requirements : accurate c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman> d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : letter-perfect e : legally valid" - from Merriam-Webster Dictionary
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Post by bombmaniac on Aug 4, 2010 15:21:04 GMT -5
"sheol" is not something you get stuck in.
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Post by Lex on Aug 4, 2010 15:30:50 GMT -5
"sheol" is not something you get stuck in. Sheol is usually interpreted as "the grave". Everyone goes there in Jewish mythology.
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