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Post by Insane_Zang on May 9, 2010 6:31:13 GMT -5
It's not about insecurity. It's more or less, the stereotype of gays (at least for me). Stereotypical gay: a high pitched whining voice, completely feminine clothes, shoes, and tight pants. Guys just don't really want that. I at least don't. And don't you dare call me a homophobic. There's a difference in being afraid of gays, and not liking gays. I wasn't going to call you homophobic. the thing is, at least with the people I know, nobody thinks gay people are like what you described at all. No one judges based on that stereotype. Well, then it's just a matter of what other people think :/
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 9, 2010 7:04:24 GMT -5
Well, basically, here's how almost every community works. Weather it be school, or even a skype chat. If a guy were to say "I like penises" they would be automatically branded as "gay". Not that anyone would see it badly, it's just branded upon them. Now, if a girl were to say "I like boobs" there's nothing wrong with that, and they are usually still seen as straight. What are your opinions on this? How on earth did you come to the conclusion that women could say they liked boobs and not be considered gay? I don't think what you're saying is true. Not about guys being branded as gay, but about if a girl says "i like boobs" no one raises an eyebrow. If i said something like that to most of my friends they would assume I was bi or a lesbian. I wouldn't I would.. I don't know anyone who wouldn't except you.. so what are you asking us to explain your mind to you for? fcktht you can like whatever you want in your mouth or your ass, it doesn't make you worth any more or any less than anyone else. Saying "You like to s*** d***" is inappropriate and rude as it's a personal thing, but it's no more or less insulting than "You like to e** p****" Oh the vulgarity of it. *washes hands that typed it*
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Post by Insane_Zang on May 9, 2010 7:07:41 GMT -5
Rebecca, before this thread, I didn't know anyone who didn't see it the way I did. :/
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 9, 2010 7:20:18 GMT -5
Aha.. It makes sense then.
I dunno why people would think that way then.. maybe girls are expected to be "bisexuals who prefer guys". There's that horrible random joke in that stupid random show family guy.. something like ""This isn't what I was thinking when I chose to be gay." - Being gay is a choice!? "For girls it is." " in any case girls sexuality is more accepted I think, but they've fought for that for a long time. And I always get the feeling society/the media is humoring them more than supporting them. (Popularity of hot girl on girl action not mentioned) You know we can wear pants or dresses.. "I prefer her in a dress.. but don't say that to her because she'll throw a tantrum."
I dunno
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Cortney
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[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
The Bown
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Post by Cortney on May 9, 2010 8:27:16 GMT -5
Zang, I have a lot of gay, male friends. One of my best friends is a gay guy. He has a normal teenage voice. He wears normal teenage boy clothes. He's as masculine as any other guy. Stereotypes are NOT something to live by, because 70% of the time they're not true. Yes, there are gays who look and act like the stereotypical gay guy, but by far most of the gay men (and women) act just like straight men (and women), except they're attracted to the same sex. Sexuality doesn't make you who you are, and it doesn't always affect the way you dress and act at all, and to think that is very ignorant.
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Post by MusicIsMyLife4Eva89 on May 9, 2010 8:39:14 GMT -5
Like Cortney, I too have a lot of gay, male friends who look and act like a regular teenage guys. Maybe some gays wear "feminine" clothing because it's comfortable for them. Ever think of that, Zang? I wear guys clothes all the time, does that make me lesbian? No. I wear it because it's comfortable. Stereotypes are definitely not true most of the time. Bomb seems to think Canadians say "hoose" instead of "house." I know not a soul that says that. I only say "hoose" to make you guys laugh sometimes.
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 9, 2010 9:19:46 GMT -5
This also got me thinking. Chelsea brought up in the no homo thread about how a guy can't say "I love you" to a best friend. Here's why. They're branded gay :/ Lies! I said that it seems like guys themselves think they can't without being branded... not that they actually will be branded... I wouldn't think a guy is gay for telling another guy that he loves him.. and I think most people would agree with me. Oh, and I was also speaking from the perspective of someone who really only sees teenage boys who are incredibly immature and are too caught up in trying to be men to just be themselves and act normal. Anyway.. saying "I like penises" implies that you like them.. in you... >_> Obviously, the true isn't the same for boobs. If a girl said "I like vagina," I'm sure everyone would also assume that she's gay. But boobs are different.. Also Zang, HOMOPHOBIC MEANS YOU DON'T LIKE GAY PEOPLE. I showed you the definition of "homophobic." If you want to be a smartass and say that "phobia" means the fear of, then you also need to take into account the fact that the root "homo" means SAME, not gay. So homophobic people are afraid of the same? Same what? Are they terrified by the idea of things staying the same? Or are we going to stay with gender and say that "homophobic" means you're afraid of people of the same sex? Don't be a smartass. Kthnx.
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pink spider
Meteorite
i dont hurt you because i hate you, i hurt you because i do not have wings
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Post by pink spider on May 9, 2010 9:25:50 GMT -5
yeah, uhm... i dont think someone can really be "branded" as gay - it sounds like you're branding a cow when you say that. ;;
honestly, who cares what people think of you? whether they think you're gay, straight, bi, that's their problem. not yours. truly, if you are comfortable with your sexuality, it shouldn't bother you. because you know they are wrong.
and if you're going around saying things like "i like penis" (which, i can't imagine why you would unless it was some sort of joke), then it's no wonder people would think you were gay. but to say a girl won't be taken for a lesbian or bisexual when she says "i like boobs" is very, very wrong. and to say that girls have it easier is also very untrue.
first off, if a girl were to say "i like boobs" then any guy around her would (probably) take that as her way of coming out to him. had there been any other girls around her, my guess is that he would snicker and give a wink before making a half-joke about how he'd love to see them make out.
honestly, it happens to the girls who ARE out and in relationships. a lot of people don't take lesbian relationships seriously because of the "girls gone wild" stereo type that exists these days. they seem to think that we're just experimenting and it's not for real. when guys see me out with a girl, they still hit on me and they try to buy us drinks - even though we've been kissing and holding hands.
and just a speculation here, i've known a lot of gay men in my lifetime. some do act like your stereotypical, femmie, "woman's best friend" shopping type. but really, the reason you think of that when you think of gay goes to show exactly what the media has done to warp the gay community before the eyes of the straight community. for the most part, all that is seen of the gay community in the media is that stereotypical gay man and the lipstick lesbians - or even just barsexuals, really, for women. you don't see the masculine gay man, you don't see the average gay man... and you definitely don't see the dominant lesbians, or even healthy lesbian relationships - unless you're watching the l word. the media exposes you to these stereotypes and feeds into your fear. just try to see beyond that bubble.
gays are normal people, just like you.
we're not wild animals, we're not some untouchables.
we are living, breathing people like you.
and it's not a choice, we can't help it anymore than you can help your skin color or your eye color.
so the next time someone does that to you or to someone else who clearly isn't gay, just laugh. cause it's stupid and evident that it's not true.
...</rant>
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 9, 2010 12:09:14 GMT -5
Like Cortney, I too have a lot of gay, male friends who look and act like a regular teenage guys. That's my favorite comma splice ever.. well done!
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Post by cooltiger413 on May 9, 2010 15:25:33 GMT -5
I'm reading through this, and I have come the following conclusion:
Guys and Girls have totaly diffrent views on this matter.
For guys: Being labeled gay is the worst thing that can happen to you, this is due to the fact that almost every other guy will make fun of you due to this, so all your guy friends are gone, now girls are willing to welcome you (as most the girls said they have gay friends), but you don't really want that as a guy. It is a lose lose and you must avoid it at all costs. Any smart guy however will be annoyed that people are always trying to brand other people as gay, and people see it as a bad thing.
Girls: Don't think it is a big deal, if someone is like that, then it is there choice and not a bad thing.
I hope I got that right.
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Post by stitchings on May 9, 2010 15:40:04 GMT -5
whats so bad about being branded as gay anyways - are guys really THAT insecure about their sexuality?? Now obviously, I can't speak for all guys. However the guys (the moronic drones who don't give two shits for other people’s feelings) I know hold on too there straightness with a tight grasp...Before you think I'm gay I can assure you now I'm not gay, I like girls. Usually the guys I know see being gay as disgusting though they'd try and keep it cryptic if they were too encounter a gay person... I personally blame the ideology that most stupid Catholics in my school think which is; "Gays are bad people the bible says so...Innit!" (Ok I'm paraphrasing but that’s what they’re saying) so yeah in a sense a lot of guys are insecure about their sexuality.
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Post by fcktht on May 9, 2010 15:41:24 GMT -5
basically what i said then
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Post by Insane_Zang on May 9, 2010 15:44:59 GMT -5
I have never met one, where do you find these people? Outside this forum, I don't know anyone who wouldn't. Not really. I wouldn't see them as gay :/ Yeah... I've grown up in schools where... it's not that gays weren't excepted, it's just no one wanted to be gay :/ I wouldn't >.> I've also never met a non stereotypical gay Pretty much what he said
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Post by Insane_Zang on May 9, 2010 15:47:57 GMT -5
Oh wait, I forgot a part.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on May 9, 2010 15:48:34 GMT -5
Chelsea hit it out of the park.
Penis is best compared with vagina.
Boobs are best compared with... well, there isn't much. Boobs are just one of a woman's curves which can make her look nicer in a non-sexual way, in addition to just the sexual aspect.
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Post by Insane_Zang on May 9, 2010 15:51:49 GMT -5
Chelsea hit it out of the park. Penis is best compared with vagina. Boobs are best compared with... well, there isn't much. Boobs are just one of a woman's curves which can make her look nicer in a non-sexual way, in addition to just the sexual aspect. Still though. If a girl said "I like vagina" I wouldn't think if them differently, and outside this forum, I don't know of anyone who would.
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 9, 2010 16:01:23 GMT -5
Oh wait, I forgot a part. Was that supposed to be your rebuttal? Because it only SUPPORTED my point. Antipathy = dislike. Any way you slice it, homophobia isn't simply being afraid of gay people.
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Post by AurAByrooN on May 9, 2010 16:08:44 GMT -5
Oh wait, I forgot a part. Was that supposed to be your rebuttal? Because it only SUPPORTED my point. Antipathy = dislike. Any way you slice it, homophobia isn't simply being afraid of gay people. Unresoning FEAR of gay people. it says fear not hate
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 9, 2010 16:12:28 GMT -5
Byron, it also says antipathy. I didn't say that fear isn't included in homophobia, you can't ignore the nuances of the word, either. Zang likes to argue that simply because "phobia" means fear, homophobia must simply be the fear of gay people. But that reasoning doesn't make sense.
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Linus
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Life is complex; it has both real and imaginary components
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Post by Linus on May 9, 2010 16:13:00 GMT -5
I have never met one, where do you find these people? You know Neil Patrick Harris, the guy who plays Barney in How I Met Your Mother? He's gay. Yeah. Anyway, I believe that the reason why being "branded as gay" is such a bad thing for guys is because, as well as many girls, I'm sure, is insecure of their sexuality a certain amount of time, during puberty for example. Since guys' brains also generally develop slower than girls' (and this is proven), it starts later and ends later for guys. While an 17 year old girl may be firm and sure of her sexuality, a 17 year old guy may certainly not be. There is also an amount of gender role issues involved. Historically, girls are allowed to be more sensitive, more elaborate about feelings, and nowadays female homosexuality is often considered "hot". Guys, however, has often been taught to suppress their feelings, and this is because of the general opinion that a guy shouldn't be weak. Showing emotions is a sign of weakness (not saying that I think so, but I'm quite certain that's how it is in society, both historically and today). Men who are considered "allowed" to express feelings more elaborately are often men within art, music and other aesthetic subjects, and they are often considered a little "weird" (and really, think of how many times for example Justin Bieber has been called "gay"). I think there's a connection there. I have grown to understand though, that to express feelings of liking and such towards another guy, whom you wish to appreciate as a friend, while being straight yourself, actually shows that you are MORE certain and comfortable in your sexuality than the macho guy going around mocking gays all the time. From a psychodynamic point of view, this would be considered a case of projection, which basically means that you ascribe attributes about yourself you think is negative, onto others. I'm sure you've heard of the case where "that guy" going around calling others gay is actually secretly attracted to guys himself, or very insecure of his sexuality. Much is the result of society's ingrained norms. Lets not forget the impact of modern media either.
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