RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 10, 2010 4:13:55 GMT -5
Someone can think she is pretty the same way they think a cat is pretty. Or think she is sexy because they know she matches the archetypal image of sexy that we have right now. But if they find her attractive it means looking at her... well ... stokes their goat as it were. Makes the heart go all aflutter. Gets the juices flowing. Whatever! I did not say that, but even if I did that would not make me gay/bi because the fact that a person would find another of the same gender attractive does not mean they want to have sex with them. So you think that gay is an act? A verb? Sorry it's an adjective that describes people who are attracted to the same sex. Take someone like Kenneth Williams, serious body issues, died because he wouldn't let a doctor be intimate with his body. Knew he would die, chose that. Never had sex as far as anyone knows, nor did he want to, but he was as gay as Christmas. Because being gay is being physically attracted to someone of the same sex. Of course you can choose what you do about it, no one has ever debated that. But you cannot choose those feelings, and it's the feelings that make you gay/bi/straight. I see your view but not your point. Having sex with men does not make a girl straight, having sex with women does not make a man straight. It's not about what you do it's about what you are and how you feel. Here is what I think. I think that every time you see a man you feel attracted to you say "down boy" and you try to repress that feeling. That does not mean the feeling is not there. It is having the feeling that makes someone homosexual/bisexual and not how they act on the feeling. By dictionary definition and by social definition and by logical compassionate definition. Straight men are not ever attracted to other men. Gay men don't always have to be sexually active. Telling yourself you are straight will not make you straight. Actually people assume know he was gay because he said he was gay. When asked "are you gay?" he said "In mind and soul, but not in body."
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 10, 2010 4:22:52 GMT -5
The only choice is whether you act on it. You are gay if you are attracted to your own gender and not the other. If you're attracted to men, but decide to have sex with women, you have not decided to be straight, you are just a gay who is acting straight. Which gender you feel sexual attraction towards is not a choice. You can't choose who you're sexually attracted to, only who you actually have sex with. I can say with certainty that I could not choose to be gay. I doubt that it's any different for a gay man or lesbian in reverse. You know what? I'm bisexual, but often just say 'gay' for the sake of not wanting to really discuss it too much when someone asks. Truthfully, I lack the understanding of how someone can be exclusively attracted to a certain gender, and not judge attraction on a case-by-case basis. During my lifetime, I could choose to only date girls, but it doesn't make me any less bisexual. I still have an attraction to certain members of either gender. excellent posts!
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TheIslander
Planet
From a Land Surrounded by Sea.
Posts: 403
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Post by TheIslander on May 10, 2010 4:53:20 GMT -5
So you think that gay is an act? A verb? Sorry it's an adjective that describes people who are attracted to the same sex. In language, not as an idea though. Again KC Williams was an admitted celibate, I have never seen any proof of him admitting such things, please do show me if you have since I am not the biggest KCW fan. He did sympathize with homosexuals, though, does that make him a homosexual? So what DOES make someone straight? You are telling me that feelings are things you are born with, you are telling me that feelings don't develop and that you do not have a choice to them. Then I must say that your reasoning is somewhat fatalistic, rabbitwho. You are not born with your current sexual, political or social feelings, you develop them as you go along.. and more over you DO have a choice to them. You have a choice to EVERYTHING in life which is not forces upon you so if you are not raped, yes it is a choice. People have a choice to being gay or straight as is racism or interracial love, it is all about feeling. Feeling which you are not born with but which you develop over time. I am done with you trying to prove to me that gays do not have a choice to be gay, there is no proof of this and therefore it is a myth. No one has reason to believe it unless they want to, and in the case they do want to I suggest they seriously question their motives. With that said, finding someone attractive does not mean you want to have sex with him. It means you are able to admit people are good looking, if you have never admitted that someone of the same sex is attractive - that doesn't make you any straight than any one else - that makes you down right too proud of yourself. By the way, being straight is as much as a choice as is being gay. I never said being straight is natural, you might be getting that impression.
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RabbitWho
Star
Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 10, 2010 5:28:51 GMT -5
In language, not as an idea though. Not in your idea. Your idea goes against the definition and the generally accepted view.. and in my opinion the reality! I saw it in a BBC television documentary. Being attracted to men made him homosexual. So what DOES make someone straight? Only feeling sexually attracted to people the same gender as you. Yes, this is the truth in my experience and in the opinion of most psychologists. If you are denying that your biological make up has an effect on your mind (which involves denying scientific proof) then you should go over to the nature/nurture debate. I have sexual feelings i have political opinions. Very different. One is based on information and the other is carnal. If I look at someone who I am attracted to there is a change in my body, it's a very concrete feeling. It's not a thought. i shouldn't have to explain this to you as you are another human being. It absolutely is not, people cannot stop themselves from feeling a certain way. How could you possibly be arguing this? It's like arguing that black is white! Feelings are separate from thoughts, they are not under our control, what we do about them is. And we can repress them all we want, but that doesn't mean they're not there. The fact that something develops over time does not mean it is a choice. I wasn't born with breasts, growing breasts was a choice? Biological imperative. Of course there is proof. Personal experience. If there is proof of gravity I don't understand it, but there's a feckload of evidence all around me. of course not. Finding someone attractive means that looking at them makes you feel a certain way. This feeling is uncontrollable. Although you can try and think about bunny rabbits or force the image of a woman into your head instead if you feel like it. That doesn't mean you didn't find him attractive and it doesn't mean you're not gay/bi JEsus! Is English your first language!? You can't just change the meaning of a word when you feel like it! How could you say something so wrong by definition! Finding someone attractive means being attracted to them. I think that my cat is attractive to other cats. I do not find my cat attractive because... he is a cat.. I don't find cats attractive. I think that Angilina Jolie is attractive. (objectively) I don't find her attractive because she reminds me of liposuctioned cow. (subjectively) Loads of people are attractive, that doesn't mean I personally find them attractive. By the way you keep repeating yourself and I can only conclude you're not reading everything I say so I wonder why I bother. If you find someone of the same sex attractive yes you are gay or bi. That is the definition. Look you can be bisexual and repress half of your sexuality if you want, but please please please understand that straight men do not find other men attractive.
That is what it means to be straight. A straight man might be able to look at Brad Pit and say objectively that he is attractive, but if those feelings come (if he finds him attractive) then he is not straight. And please stop using your own determination to be straight despite being attracted to other men as proof that other people have the same feelings as you do, because they don't. The option to repress your sexuality does not mean that that sexuality is a choice.
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TheIslander
Planet
From a Land Surrounded by Sea.
Posts: 403
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Post by TheIslander on May 10, 2010 6:59:45 GMT -5
Loads of people are attractive, that doesn't mean I personally find them attractive. I agree. One has a choice to find another personally attractive. If I had these supposedly gay biological attributes which you believe in so much, and my hypothetical wife did too... that means our doctor can deduce our child's sexuality right? No, Wrong. The child's upbringing and personal choices result in his sexuality.
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Cortney
Star
[AWD:0c15]The Objectioner
The Bown
Posts: 885
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Post by Cortney on May 10, 2010 22:30:36 GMT -5
Just because homosexuality is present at birth doesn't mean it's hereditary. That's like saying gender is hereditary. It's not, it just a variation in chromosomes.
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bleabot
Moon
Set phazors to dance, Mr. Warf.
Posts: 109
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Post by bleabot on May 10, 2010 22:44:57 GMT -5
Loads of people are attractive, that doesn't mean I personally find them attractive. I agree. One has a choice to find another personally attractive. I'm not sure what you're saying here: that we can actually choose who we are sexually attracted to, or that our choices and upbringing up to that point affect it. If it's the latter, I can see that. If it's the former, though, that makes absolutely no sense. You cannot control the chemicals in your body. You can't look at someone and think, "Oh, she's hot. I'd like to be attracted to her," and force yourself to get aroused. It doesn't work like that. ...unless you're some sort of highly trained special agent who ignores all form of normal humanity or something. =/
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Nakor
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Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 10, 2010 23:42:45 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly. It's like saying I can choose not to hate cabbage and love blueberries. I can't just arbitrarily start or stop finding certain foods tasty, and I can't just arbitrarily start or stop finding certain women sexy. I can choose how to act on those tastes and feelings, and I could try to suppress them or act against their nature, but they would still be there and I could not choose to not have them.
I can eat cabbage, but I still won't like it. A gay man could have sex with a woman, but he still wouldn't find her sexually attractive. That is what being homosexual means: finding your own gender sexually attractive and the other gender not.
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Yokailo
Star
[AWD:020307]
I like things.
Posts: 734
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Post by Yokailo on May 13, 2010 12:38:01 GMT -5
I really believe that everyone - everyone - is bisexual. I might offend a lot of people with that, so please let me explain.
People don't fall in love with each other for the sex (eventually, that is what love is for, but please don't go all evolutional on me). They fall in love with each other for the person, for the character, for the looks maybe. I think you should consider every love separately, and don't cut off the relationship because this person is the same or the opposite gender. That's why I consider myself bisexual, even though I've never been strongly in love with someone; I just don't cross out any possibilities yet, to make sure I don't miss out on that one lovely person for me.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 13, 2010 13:13:25 GMT -5
Actually, there's a different term I've heard used for that, "biromantic." It's occasionally used by asexuals apparently. Anyway, bisexual refers specifically to sexual preferences in the sense of which gender you would want to have sex with, not necessarily to sex-unrelated romantic inclinations.
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 13, 2010 15:19:41 GMT -5
I really believe that everyone - everyone - is bisexual. I might offend a lot of people with that, so please let me explain. People don't fall in love with each other for the sex (eventually, that is what love is for, but please don't go all evolutional on me). They fall in love with each other for the person, for the character, for the looks maybe. I think you should consider every love separately, and don't cut off the relationship because this person is the same or the opposite gender. That's why I consider myself bisexual, even though I've never been strongly in love with someone; I just don't cross out any possibilities yet, to make sure I don't miss out on that one lovely person for me. I completely agree... although I've never officially considered myself bisexual... Hmm...
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Post by KipEnyan on May 13, 2010 18:02:15 GMT -5
I'm getting in a little late here, but I've got 5 pages straight of opinions reeling in my head, so here goes.
Just because being gay isn't genetic doesn't mean it's not biological. Someone already explained the hormone argument. They've tested this, female bodies react strangely to male bodies and pump them with estrogen and the like. Scientific, biological cause for being homosexual, done.
As to the recent development in this thread of "free love" bisexuality, I see some problems. I think the difference between wife/husband and BFF is the sexual aspect. I am only physically attracted to girls. I could be so in love with another guy's personality (which I find unlikely, guys are mostly dicks), but still have no desire to do anything physical with them, and thus I wouldn't call myself bisexual.
As to the initial purpose of this thread, the branding thing, I seem to be the only straight guy here who wouldn't be offended by the label? Even people whose views on the matter align with mine in every other aspect, seem to be like "We don't want to be labeled gay because other insecure guys look at it like a bad thing and we lose all our guys friends."
First off... What? If this is the case, the problem isn't in the gay label, the problem is you have really shitty friends who should be replaced ASAP. Anyone who'd ditch you for what you're called superficially isn't someone worth keeping around.
I actually often get labeled as gay, and I have no problem with it. I mean sure, I clarify to people that I have no desire for male genitalia to enter any of my orifices, or vice versa, but if they want to brand me as gay, go right for it. I often explain it to people who don't get it as "I am entirely and 100% gay, except I don't like penises, and I do like vaginas, but other than that I'm totally gay." XD
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Post by atrickett on May 19, 2010 17:03:36 GMT -5
its a man's world. men like boobs. the more the better. we dont care if women like boobs, we want to see all women's boobs. we do NOT want to see any penis though. therefore men liking penis is bad, girls liking boobs is good. plain and simple. I wouldn't use the words "bad" or "good" here. And this could possibly spark an idea for a project.
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Post by atrickett on May 19, 2010 17:09:19 GMT -5
"People have a choice to being gay or straight as is racism or interracial love, it is all about feeling. Feeling which you are not born with but which you develop over time."
But if you ask someone, they won't say, "yeah, I decided to be gay when I was 12", or "I was brought up to be gay." or even the other way around.
And also, racism is something you learn. There is a reason that straight people generally don't try anything with guys. The truth is, we don't know whether you're born with it or not, but there is definately more evidence (not proof) that supports it being something that you're born with.
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Post by KipEnyan on May 23, 2010 11:32:37 GMT -5
"People have a choice to being gay or straight as is racism or interracial love, it is all about feeling. Feeling which you are not born with but which you develop over time." But if you ask someone, they won't say, "yeah, I decided to be gay when I was 12", or "I was brought up to be gay." or even the other way around. And also, racism is something you learn. There is a reason that straight people generally don't try anything with guys. The truth is, we don't know whether you're born with it or not, but there is definately more evidence (not proof) that supports it being something that you're born with. Racism is both something you're born with and something you learn. It's a combination of innate human Xenophobia and conditioning as a result of upbringing. Also: Main Entry: evidence Part of Speech: noun Definition: proof You can't say something is word but not definition.
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 23, 2010 12:11:31 GMT -5
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0netnet0
Meteor
The things I do for love...
Posts: 50
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Post by 0netnet0 on Mar 3, 2011 8:03:25 GMT -5
yes, i would say being called a guy who likes penis in his mouth and ass rather insulting and disgusting No, no, no, no, no. Someone who is gay is NOT someone who "likes penis in his mouth and ass". Someone who is gay is someone who is attracted sexually or emotionally to people of the same sex and not the opposite sex. There are many guys who like anal sex who are completely straight, for example. Fetishes can include anything and everything, not regarding to the sexuality of that person.
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0netnet0
Meteor
The things I do for love...
Posts: 50
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Post by 0netnet0 on Mar 3, 2011 8:11:44 GMT -5
I have never met one, where do you find these people? Everywhere. You just see them on the street. It's just that they don't look gay, or act gay (according to the stereotype) so you can't know unless you get to know the guy.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Mar 4, 2011 0:28:44 GMT -5
NECROPOSTING!
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Post by Insane_Zang on Mar 4, 2011 0:29:03 GMT -5
yes, i would say being called a guy who likes penis in his mouth and ass rather insulting and disgusting No, no, no, no, no. Someone who is gay is NOT someone who "likes penis in his mouth and ass". Someone who is gay is someone who is attracted sexually or emotionally to people of the same sex and not the opposite sex. There are many guys who like anal sex who are completely straight, for example. Fetishes can include anything and everything, not regarding to the sexuality of that person. This was a troll account, man
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