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Post by Ryan on May 9, 2010 17:52:05 GMT -5
If I say: If P then Q - that does not mean that If not P then not Q - please apply logic If you're not gay you do not know whether or not it is a choice - you shouldn't put your two cents in because it is foreign currency and is irrelevant.
the opinions that were supposed to be shared on this thread were about the double standard - not about the how or why of gay people. You are welcome to your opinions, I will never say that anyone should rid themselves of their own opinions. I also encourage sharing of opinions. I do ask though that if you wish to share your opinions on the how and why of gay people that you make a thread for it - because that wasn't the purpose of this one.
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TheIslander
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From a Land Surrounded by Sea.
Posts: 403
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Post by TheIslander on May 9, 2010 17:58:47 GMT -5
If there was a guy which I found attractive and took the option to take it seriously then yes that makes me gay or bi. So you do find some men attractive? I did not say that, but even if I did that would not make me gay/bi because the fact that a person would find another of the same gender attractive does not mean they want to have sex with them. You assuming that all girls who find angelina jolie attractive are all bi/lesbian. That is a lot of people, is that what you are trying to say? It is the same issue with men, just that men are more competitive and find it harder to admit that another man is attractive.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 9, 2010 17:59:46 GMT -5
I think that anyone with a sexuality has the ability to speak from experience on whether their sexuality is a choice. Being in denial is a whole other problem that will cloud judgment.
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Post by Ryan on May 9, 2010 18:02:57 GMT -5
Technically bisexuality is the attraction to both males and females. So if a girl says they find Angelina attractive, and still find that they are attracted to the boy who sits across the room in math class is attractive - by all technicality they are bi.
This is purely an argument based in semantics.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
Posts: 808
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Post by RabbitWho on May 9, 2010 18:05:42 GMT -5
Someone can think she is pretty the same way they think a cat is pretty. Or think she is sexy because they know she matches the archetypal image of sexy that we have right now. But if they find her attractive it means looking at her... well ... stokes their goat as it were. Makes the heart go all aflutter. Gets the juices flowing. Whatever! So you do find some men attractive? I did not say that, but even if I did that would not make me gay/bi because the fact that a person would find another of the same gender attractive does not mean they want to have sex with them. So you think that gay is an act? A verb? Sorry it's an adjective that describes people who are attracted to the same sex. Take someone like Kenneth Williams, serious body issues, died because he wouldn't let a doctor be intimate with his body. Knew he would die, chose that. Never had sex as far as anyone knows, nor did he want to, but he was as gay as Christmas. Because being gay is being physically attracted to someone of the same sex. Of course you can choose what you do about it, no one has ever debated that. But you cannot choose those feelings, and it's the feelings that make you gay/bi/straight.
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TheIslander
Planet
From a Land Surrounded by Sea.
Posts: 403
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Post by TheIslander on May 9, 2010 18:21:57 GMT -5
Someone can think she is pretty the same way they think a cat is pretty. Or think she is sexy because they know she matches the archetypal image of sexy that we have right now. But if they find her attractive it means looking at her... well ... stokes their goat as it were. Makes the heart go all aflutter. Gets the juices flowing. Whatever! I did not say that, but even if I did that would not make me gay/bi because the fact that a person would find another of the same gender attractive does not mean they want to have sex with them. So you think that gay is an act? A verb? Sorry it's an adjective that describes people who are attracted to the same sex. Take someone like Kenneth Williams, serious body issues, died because he wouldn't let a doctor be intimate with his body. Knew he would die, chose that. Never had sex as far as anyone knows, nor did he want to, but he was as gay as Christmas. Because being gay is being physically attracted to someone of the same sex. Of course you can choose what you do about it, no one has ever debated that. But you cannot choose those feelings, and it's the feelings that make you gay/bi/straight. [/quote] Gay is both an act and a verb, maybe not to the english language but as a sexual concept it is. With that said heterosexuality is also an act and an adjective in concept. One decides on how s/he should act, which in turn defines their sexuality. Do you see my point now? The Kenneth Williams you mention was not gay, people only assume that he is gay due to his loneliness. He was a self admitted celibate, that is the only thing we can be sure of.
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pink spider
Meteorite
i dont hurt you because i hate you, i hurt you because i do not have wings
Posts: 19
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Post by pink spider on May 9, 2010 18:34:29 GMT -5
1. If you are not gay - do not go and say that being gay is a choice. You obviously have no idea. So if you are not gay and you say that it is not a choice, you are allowed to speak? You say that the point of this thread is to share opinions, but you are telling me that if I am not gay I don't have a right to my opinion. Which by the way isn't so much of an opinion since there is no scientific proof that gays are born gay and which makes it a a choice (which is affected by the factors mentioned above). that's not what is being said here.
and here you go, so you feel better.
i am gay.
i hated myself for years.
didn't want to be.
was terrified i'd be hurt or killed for it because of where i lived.
i was bullied for it in high school.
some girl in the locker rooms used to beat me up cause she thought i was "staring at her body" and that i shouldn't be allowed in the locker room.
it's not a choice.
if it was i wouldn't have been lesbian.
it took so many years for me to accept it.
it's not like being slutty or choosing if you want to have sex. no.
it's like being white or black, asian or mexican.
you can't help it.
you just are.
but i will say this.
it is a choice to accept yourself.
it is a choice to allow yourself to be okay with being gay.
it is a choice to allow yourself to be true to yourself.
and it is a choice to be in a gay relationship.
it is not a choice in the matters of attraction, by all means.
i had the biggest crush on my best friend all through out high school and tried sooo many times not to like her. i even tried hating her.
it never worked.
and let me pose this question.
if being gay was a choice
why would anyone in their right minds choose the path of being gay? why would anyone in their right minds choose the path of being discriminated, bullied, and demeaned? why would someone choose to be gay, when they cannot not be married and (in some countries) could even be killed for it.
hell, even here. check the news.
you don't have to like gays, you dont have to be okay with them.
but try not to bash them, yeah?
i dont go around saying "UGH THOSE STUPID STRAIGHTS ITS SO GROSS WTF WHY DO YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT?!"
cause i know it's not a choice.
also.
another question.
how do you know you like girls, hmn?
because you react to them physically. because you are attracted to them.
t'is the same with gays.
</rant>
please excuse any typos, typing with passion = fail
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TheIslander
Planet
From a Land Surrounded by Sea.
Posts: 403
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Post by TheIslander on May 9, 2010 18:45:18 GMT -5
If being gay is like being black, then I have no idea why you are ranting about acceptance. The US president, arguably one of the most respected figures in the world, is black. If being gay is like being black, then why the long rant about acceptance? I won't doubt your feelings, and genuinely pity you for having them. But your feelings have nothing to do with the fact that it is a choice effected by biological/social/psychological elements, as mentioned and that given those elements you can be straight. I like my girls girls fit,funny and smart by the way. I wonder what that has to do with the discussion though. Your post has brought a certain emotional aspect to the debate and for that reason I will stop posting to avoid hurting anyone. End of discussion on my part. You can read back to see what I think.
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pink spider
Meteorite
i dont hurt you because i hate you, i hurt you because i do not have wings
Posts: 19
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Post by pink spider on May 9, 2010 18:47:13 GMT -5
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TheIslander
Planet
From a Land Surrounded by Sea.
Posts: 403
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Post by TheIslander on May 9, 2010 18:50:42 GMT -5
Everyone is a winner in a debate, since everyone gets to express their opinion and understand the opinion of others. I will stop replying to such posts because I believe my reaction would offend you. Quite honestly bringing such personal arguments to a debate topic would be killing it. I don't hate you for being lesbian and therefore would not continue debating to hurt you Read my posts over and try understand what I am saying. my post says nothing along the lines of "winning" or losing and by all means if you want to discuss this pm me.
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 9, 2010 18:52:03 GMT -5
This is an entirely different debate. Let's get back to the topic.
How many people outside of this forum do you know who WOULDN'T? (In other words, comparing the number of people who would/wouldn't think it's gay to the total number of people you talk to outside of te forum). I don't talk to many guys apart from here, so, yeah.. going by THAT, it would be hard to support that. I guess really the only people I know irl that are okay saying it are my brother and his friends. But how come people on this forum don't count? That's just silly. Also, I know there are male YouTubers who say "I love you" to each other, hug, and kiss, and they're straight. Or do they not count because they're internet people, and internet people aren't real?
I really just think it's all a matter of maturity and being comfortable with your sexuality. Many teenagers are too immature to realize that being gay isn't bad, so they use homosexuality as a way to insult people. If they were more comfortable with their own sexuality, they wouldn't see homosexuality as a negative thing. For example, when I was younger, if someone insulted me by saying that I was gay, I would be offended and I'd try to prove my heterosexuality. Now that I've matured and I'm comfortable with my sexuality, I'm not affected by what people say about my sexuality. I know the truth, and I know that being gay is okay, so I have no reason to be offended.
But still, saying something like "I like penises," I don't see why a straight male would say that, just like I don't understand why a straight female would say, "I like vagina." I said earlier that boobs are different, because they aren't directly a sexual organ, and I still think that's true. I think context is important, and I just feel like there's a broader context in which a girl might say "I like boobs." than she might say "I like vagina." I like boobs. They're useful to hold things. Sometimes you can use them to get your way. There are plenty of reasons to say "I like boobs." But a vagina isn't as versatile as boobs. Vaginas are used for 3 things: Sex, menstruation, and child-birth. 2 of those things completely SUCK, so if you're saying "I like vagina," the only way you could mean that is in reference to sex. Girls that like having sex with girls are gay. And it's the same thing with penises. If anyone says "I like penis," I'm going to assume they mean sex, because there really aren't many other ways you could mean it.
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pink spider
Meteorite
i dont hurt you because i hate you, i hurt you because i do not have wings
Posts: 19
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Post by pink spider on May 9, 2010 18:56:22 GMT -5
...well, gee. sorry for offering my own insight from personal experience. .x.;
i'll uh.... leave the thread now >x>;;;
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Post by Trey on May 9, 2010 18:56:06 GMT -5
The people who meet the gay stereotypes (and often exceed them) are called Flamers. I actually find flamers annoying. Gay people in general? No.
I grew up knowing a man that got married, divorced, had girlfriends, everything. You would never think he was gay. He came out of the closet two years ago. He's 40. I don't like him any less because of his sexuality.
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Post by cooltiger413 on May 9, 2010 18:58:35 GMT -5
OK let me settle if being gay is a choice:
If your strait, you know being strait isn't a choice, so its likely that being gay isn't a choice, and vise versa.
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Post by Trey on May 9, 2010 19:08:41 GMT -5
OK let me settle if being gay is a choice: If your strait, you know being strait isn't a choice, so its likely that being gay isn't a choice, and vise versa. I'm no strait :\
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Cortney
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Post by Cortney on May 9, 2010 19:09:33 GMT -5
But your feelings have nothing to do with the fact that it is a choice effected by biological/social/psychological elements, as mentioned and that given those elements you can be straight. Um. I'd like to see where this is a fact that has been proven. The fact is that being gay CAN be a choice, usually resulting from abuse (such as rape) from the opposite sex. However, most of the time, it is as natural as being straight is to you and me. It's like trying to force yourself to be sexually aroused when looking at a tree. Can you? No. Why? Because your not attracted to trees, you're attracted to women. Nobody can control what they are attracted to.
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Post by Lex on May 9, 2010 19:39:44 GMT -5
But your feelings have nothing to do with the fact that it is a choice effected by biological/social/psychological elements, as mentioned and that given those elements you can be straight. Um. I'd like to see where this is a fact that has been proven. The fact is that being gay CAN be a choice, usually resulting from abuse (such as rape) from the opposite sex. I know someone like this. It's not really much of a choice, then. It's more of a result of a fear.
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Nakor
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Non-Prophet
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Post by Nakor on May 9, 2010 20:15:14 GMT -5
The only choice is whether you act on it. You are gay if you are attracted to your own gender and not the other. If you're attracted to men, but decide to have sex with women, you have not decided to be straight, you are just a gay who is acting straight. Which gender you feel sexual attraction towards is not a choice. You can't choose who you're sexually attracted to, only who you actually have sex with.
I can say with certainty that I could not choose to be gay. I doubt that it's any different for a gay man or lesbian in reverse.
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Post by Lex on May 9, 2010 21:01:43 GMT -5
You know what? I'm bisexual, but often just say 'gay' for the sake of not wanting to really discuss it too much when someone asks. Truthfully, I lack the understanding of how someone can be exclusively attracted to a certain gender, and not judge attraction on a case-by-case basis. During my lifetime, I could choose to only date girls, but it doesn't make me any less bisexual. I still have an attraction to certain members of either gender.
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Post by rialvestro on May 10, 2010 0:44:21 GMT -5
How is it in any way accurate!?!?!?!?!?! Ask any guy... I'm a guy, and I worked with a girl who claims to be straight but also has admitted to having pictures of naked women in her room and was looking up porn on her cell phone durring our break for pictures of naked women. I don't believe for a min. that she's really straight but I have met her boyfriend so I'm convinced that she's bi.
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