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Post by low on May 21, 2010 19:23:33 GMT -5
Draw Muhammad Day is no more offensive than ridicule of any other religion. The point of Draw Muhammad Day is also not to offend Muslims, but something of what Ayaan Hirsi Ali said in this interview (start at around 5:46 if you don't want the full context):
If everyone draws Muhammad, then radical Muslims have no targets to choose while the rest of Muslims no longer retain a reputation of being violent for trying to kill everyone who insults them...or at least lose some of it. I'm disappointed that more people didn't draw Muhammad.
This video on the subject is the best I saw and talks about religions other than Islam as an introduction:
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Post by RandiKthxxx on May 21, 2010 19:27:54 GMT -5
Conclusion: If you don't like the rule, ignore it, don't go out of your way to break it. The premise of free speech was meant to share ideas, not to troll. Good premise, Terrible execution. Thank you.
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Post by Trey on May 21, 2010 19:31:28 GMT -5
already considered that possibility. I think "Draw Mohammed Day" is even bigger xD
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Post by newschooled on May 21, 2010 20:20:49 GMT -5
The biggest problem I see with this aside from the disrespect of Islamic scripture is that every racist and their dog is gonna run with it.
It started to supposedly be a statement about freedom of speech. Problem is it breeds hate from both sides. This will not bring freedom of speech to oppressive cultures. Period.
Granted some (not all, but some) are using this act as a step toward the greater good, the reality is that it is the wrong step. All that has been done is that an entire CULTURE has been antagonized. That's it. Nothing good will possibly come from this act, only more hate.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on May 21, 2010 20:53:16 GMT -5
DawahFilms seems to think differently.
And I don't think it's an attack on the entire culture. Oh, some of the drawings are, but those who remained with the spirit of the campaign weren't attacking Muslims at all. You cannot accuse Dan of attacking the Muslim culture with his video and sketch can you? I saw several rough sketches of Muhammed asking for peace. It's about saying that we won't back down from our fundamental rights.
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Post by thequirkyduo on May 21, 2010 21:40:13 GMT -5
i'm conflicted when it comes to draw Muhammad day. on one hand, i think it is great for people to be able to voice their opinions in whatever way they see fit. but on the other hand, i think that there are a lot of people out there participating in the event for the purpose of hurting Muslims, and that isn't right. so if you are participating as a protest, its fine by me. but if you are participating because you seek to hurt people of a faith different than yours, or racially stereotype all Muslims as terrorists- then I am very opposed.
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Post by newschooled on May 21, 2010 23:17:39 GMT -5
i'm conflicted when it comes to draw Muhammad day. on one hand, i think it is great for people to be able to voice their opinions in whatever way they see fit. but on the other hand, i think that there are a lot of people out there participating in the event for the purpose of hurting Muslims, and that isn't right. so if you are participating as a protest, its fine by me. but if you are participating because you seek to hurt people of a faith different than yours, or racially stereotype all Muslims as terrorists- then I am very opposed. True. Problem is, many people with ill intent will never admit (and sometimes even to themselves) that they have ill intent. Just like every douche who ever starts a sentance with "I'm not racist, BUT..."
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Post by generalroshambo on May 22, 2010 0:57:53 GMT -5
I can see why it could be taken offensively, but free speech is greater than this issue.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." --Voltaire
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Post by zAkAtAk on May 22, 2010 2:28:04 GMT -5
I am not Muslim. The whole point of Draw Muhammad Day is to troll a religion. Pretty sure that's the definition of trying to be offensive. I voted yes. People have no respect for people that are different from them.
EDIT: Please note that just because it is not offensive to you does not mean it isn't offensive. Muslims hold their vision of Mohammad very close to them. You don't see me going off and having the entire globe telling people "FUCKING JESUS FAGGOT" and "FUCK HIM IS HIS MOTHERF*CKING C*NT" to priests and bishops. Don't be dumb.
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Post by zAkAtAk on May 22, 2010 2:34:01 GMT -5
A drawing is offensive? PICTURE EDITTED UPON USER REQUEST ^-- That is offensive? If you say so, you don't make sense. Seriously though, what does that drawing have which might be considered offensive? The stick doll, the name "muhammad", the arrow?People can get easily offended with a lot of things. A teacher might get offended when a student says he/she doesn't like that teacher's class. Should that mean the student should be silenced? Of course not! It is in his/hers right to say their opinion. Politicians get "offended" with almost everything they disagree with. Does that mean we should stop disagreeing with politicians? No! That would be a catastrophe. Maybe sometimes it is necessary to offend people, so unjust things can stop. Maybe it was good to offend all the Muslims, so they can see that it is what it is, just a drawing. And so they stop making a big scandal out of it, which causes greater harm than the drawing itself, with the pain and suffering of people. Just my 2 cents. PS: Extremists exist everywhere. And the extremes made by Muslims out-weight the extremes made by the people who drew Muhammad. So saying people went overboard is not a good reason to think it was that wrong.I seriously want to punch you right now, you have no idea.
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RabbitWho
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Rebecca - How 'bout we all put or real names somewhere in our signatures or titles? [SKB:]
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Post by RabbitWho on May 22, 2010 4:31:00 GMT -5
This is what Douglas Adams meant when he said the babelfish was responsible for more deaths than anything in history. We have it now, we finally understand each other and can speak and communicate with people all over the world from all different cultures. And do we spread love and understanding? Do we inform and educate? Do we try to build our own understanding of other peoples feelings and beliefs? Do we respect each other? Do we accept our differences?
No, we waste our time on this. No we spit on it! We mock millions and millions of people because of the actions of a few. People actually fear Muslims and / or hate Muslims.
Just because people are free to do this, doesn't mean it's not disgusting and wrong. This whole thing will blow over, but the sentiments behind it and the "We are morally superior to you, we can do whatever the hell we want to you and the things you care about." attitude is endemic, it has already allowed war to happen and I can see it happening again. It's written near the start of the Qur'an that you're not supposed to convert other people to your way of thinking, you have to leave alone anyone who leaves you alone. What a pity we have no similar sentiments! We need everyone to be the same as us!
Of course the people who killed because of something like this were wrong, it's not okay to kill another person (for any reason other than direct self defense, and even then it's almost never necessary), but to mock an entire faith!? We're saying "you think this is important, AND YOU ARE WRONG TO THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT! Our value of free speech is more valuable to us than your value of dignity and other values we don't understand, ours are worth more and we are right about everything and can do what we want to your culture because we are western."
If someone wanted to organize a nonviolent action directed just at the murderers and violent people then I would be all for it, but this is an unsolicited action against an entire culture and millions and millions of good and innocent people who deserve our respect and empathy.
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Post by binini on May 22, 2010 5:21:16 GMT -5
Why should people care anyway as i said before, not being able to draw Muhammad doesn't effect us, we don't really NEED to draw him, so why bother?
extra note. all this hatred and misunderstanding, is it down to lack of education? Shouldn't education's purpose be to replace an empty mind with an open one?
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Post by takerusaleh on May 22, 2010 5:56:12 GMT -5
When you attack black people,they call it Racism. When you attack Jewish people,they call it Anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call it Sexism. When you attack homosexuality,they call it Intolerance. When you attack your country,they call it Treason. When you attack a religious sect,they call it Hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him),they call it freedom of speech!
tell me is this right??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2010 6:30:22 GMT -5
This post was seriously edited since first madeI am not Muslim. The whole point of Draw Muhammad Day is to troll a religion. Pretty sure that's the definition of trying to be offensive. I voted yes. People have no respect for people that are different from them. EDIT: Please note that just because it is not offensive to you does not mean it isn't offensive. Muslims hold their vision of Mohammad very close to them. You don't see me going off and having the entire globe telling people "FUCKING JESUS FAGGOT" and "FUCK HIM IS HIS MOTHERF*CKING C*NT" to priests and bishops. Don't be dumb. If this was "Draw Jesus Day" to oppose Christians who were overreacting, I would support it. If it was "Draw Buda Day" for overreacting Buddhists (what is unlikely), I would support it. If this was "Draw Darwin Day" to oppose atheists who were overreacting (even though atheism is not a religion), I would support it too, even if being an atheist myself. The bible explicitly says that God should not be depicted in any image or representation. But the most extreme Christians don't try to kill people who made images of God. I do know it is hard for certain Muslims to accept that not everybody sees their prophet as a holly figure, but that is no reason to take from people their freedom of expression and freedom of religion. Now, this even should also not be a hate event, but just a way to show a simple position, that not everybody worships Muhammad, and so, not everybody is offended with a drawing; and that therefore, it would be unjust for the most radical Muslims to "silence" those drawings just because they go against their religion. Just my 2 cents again. PS: Maybe I overreacted on my first post (the irony).
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ariya
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birthday cake mode.
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Post by ariya on May 22, 2010 6:36:00 GMT -5
I think if you offend this many people about something they truly believe in, some people are going to go a bit too far and start threatening. But what i really think is that we all have to calm down and think about it. Let's say, for example, in Japan, its rude to blow your nose in public. This is the equivalent of getting a crowd of people to blow their noses on a crowded train in Tokyo. It's just going to brew hate on both sides and this is far from free speech.
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Tido
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Post by Tido on May 22, 2010 10:25:15 GMT -5
Dan said that SouthPark was censored but in Season 5 Episode 3 Attachments:
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kshults
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Teach me what you can
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Post by kshults on May 22, 2010 10:49:13 GMT -5
can I just say that as somebody who participated in this event, I did not do it out of hatred for the muslim religion, nor did I want to get a reaction out of every muslim out there. My reason for participating was because of this - The way that particular group of extrimist muslims has gone about supporting their views is entirely wrong. The draw muhammed day was, and still is, at it's heart, just a way to give them a bigger target than they could ever hit.
In it, I took a scripture from the Qu'aran, "Alah is with those who restrain themselves," that isn't offensive, and to say that everybody who participated in this event is trying to troll islam, or that they're purposfully trying to offend an entire religion out of hatred or biggotry is simply not true.
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lydia
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Post by lydia on May 22, 2010 10:55:01 GMT -5
While I think it is stupid to be so offended over a cartoon to kill someone I don't think it's right to try to piss people off just because you think its funny.
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Post by reety on May 22, 2010 11:21:39 GMT -5
I know the idea behind the event wasn't to be offensive or discriminatory, and I'm sure that it wasn't anyone's intention either. The whole point was to stick it to the radicals, but it's being done the wrong way.
I guess the main thing here is that people don't get how a simple drawing could be so offensive, but it is. Killing someone over it is ridiculous and extreme, but it doesn't take away the fact it is rather upsetting to Muslims, radical and unradical alike. It may seem silly that a drawing Is considered sinful, but people believe it, they have their reasons and it should be respected.
Say South Park decided to air an Episode where the Quran is being flushed down the toilet with someone's faeces. Of course that's offensive! Muslims everywhere are going to be disturbed by it, as will the extremists. And they'll probably send time bombs through the mail. In response to the extremists would anyone here start a "Let's flush the Quran down the toilet with our poop" Day? And then call it NOT offensive? If yes, then revaluate what you call offensive.
That's basically what's going on here to a lesser extent.
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Nakor
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Post by Nakor on May 22, 2010 12:07:04 GMT -5
I am not Muslim. The whole point of Draw Muhammad Day is to troll a religion. Pretty sure that's the definition of trying to be offensive. I voted yes. People have no respect for people that are different from them. EDIT: Please note that just because it is not offensive to you does not mean it isn't offensive. Muslims hold their vision of Mohammad very close to them. You don't see me going off and having the entire globe telling people "FUCKING JESUS FAGGOT" and "FUCK HIM IS HIS MOTHERF*CKING C*NT" to priests and bishops. Don't be dumb. Jews hold a very strong belief that it's blasphemous to claim Jesus is god or the son of god. We'd best not allow anybody to express their Christian beliefs in public now! Well, hell, every religion could be offended by other religions' symbols; maybe we should take them all down. And frankly, I don't see how a stick man drawing at all can be considered on the scale of your quotes there. The whole point of Draw Muhammed Day is to demonstrate that we will not give up freedom of speech to threats of violence. Are you suggesting that we should rescind freedom of speech? Or are you suggesting that we merely shouldn't defend it when it's attacked? I haven't heard any better options for defending freedom of speech from these recent death threats yet. Well, one: if Viacom hadn't censored South Park in the first place, this might not have had to come about. I don't have a beef with Muslims in general, nor do I have a beef with any that find offensive Muhammed pictures offensive, but those who claim we shouldn't even be allowed to draw them? Them I have a problem with. (In fact, I find the very thought offensive; let's ban that too.)
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