Nakor
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Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 26, 2010 15:41:57 GMT -5
Okay. If I were to sit down and debate the validity of the theory of evolution from the pro viewpoint, how would I prove my point? I'm looking for dead on concrete evidence. Similarities in DNA? What is it? I want to know what evidence drives you to hold this as true. Come on Nakor, I want you to do this Dan Brown-BlueOfficeChair style Frankly, you're asking for the entire history of biology in that post. DNA similarity is one way to show we're tied, but there's a lot more. I think I'm better off referring you to information by someone with more expertise in the field. The fact is, there are many ways to show the exact same tree of evolution. Every one of those methods -- independently -- is capable of producing the exact same tree.
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Post by RandiKthxxx on May 26, 2010 15:43:48 GMT -5
^ I think that's exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.
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Post by jmejia1187 on May 26, 2010 15:50:10 GMT -5
Okay. If I were to sit down and debate the validity of the theory of evolution from the pro viewpoint, how would I prove my point? I'm looking for dead on concrete evidence. Similarities in DNA? What is it? I want to know what evidence drives you to hold this as true. Come on Nakor, I want you to do this Dan Brown-BlueOfficeChair style The only way to do this would be for you to learn genetic concepts and to read scientific papers, as i do. Here are a few to get you started: www.jstor.org/pss/2408332www.jstor.org/pss/2405691www.jstor.org/pss/2408759Once you have read these three papers, and want to discuss how they prove evolution, come back
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Nakor
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Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 26, 2010 15:50:36 GMT -5
If you're interested in the field you might want to check out some of the other vids on that channel. He's actually an evolutionary biologist, and his channel is a mix of evolution vs creationism videos, and videos that are purely information about evolution.
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Silverrida
Moon
Infinity - So far away yet around us at the same time
Posts: 112
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Post by Silverrida on May 26, 2010 15:54:01 GMT -5
Okay. If I were to sit down and debate the validity of the theory of evolution from the pro viewpoint, how would I prove my point? I'm looking for dead on concrete evidence. Similarities in DNA? What is it? I want to know what evidence drives you to hold this as true. Come on Nakor, I want you to do this Dan Brown-BlueOfficeChair style The definition of evolution is change in gene frequency over time. The fact that you do not look exactly like your parents is proof of evolution, as your DNA is a mix of your parents and your DNA controls your genes. If we expand on this, macroevolution, what is being debated here, is just many changes over a period of time. A good example of this would be the italian wall lizard. We have much evidence of linking fossils between animal types that show progressive changes, such as the archeopteryx for the reptile to bird or therapsid for the reptile to mammal. DNA sequencing also allows us to see how similar our DNA is, and consequently how much we evolved from, another creature.
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Post by Joey on May 26, 2010 15:59:24 GMT -5
Hey, you keep saying you are in the field of Biology. What do you do? (Specific study?)
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Post by jeradjones on May 26, 2010 15:59:52 GMT -5
The problem with teaching both in school lies within the parents. If there was a creation class and a science class, the majority of the parents that go to my school would force their kid to sign up for the creation class.
Christianity may make up the majority, but there are also other religions out there who would complain that their beliefs are not taught in school. This would cause a lot of problems.
I believe science is best left in school and religions are best left to Sunday School.
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Post by jmejia1187 on May 26, 2010 16:01:42 GMT -5
And I am a ecologist.
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Post by RandiKthxxx on May 26, 2010 16:01:47 GMT -5
Okay. If I were to sit down and debate the validity of the theory of evolution from the pro viewpoint, how would I prove my point? I'm looking for dead on concrete evidence. Similarities in DNA? What is it? I want to know what evidence drives you to hold this as true. Come on Nakor, I want you to do this Dan Brown-BlueOfficeChair style The only way to do this would be for you to learn genetic concepts and to read scientific papers, as i do. Here are a few to get you started: www.jstor.org/pss/2408332www.jstor.org/pss/2405691www.jstor.org/pss/2408759Once you have read these three papers, and want to discuss how they prove evolution, come back On second thought, I'll never understand it ha Nakor, Nah I wanna be an athletic trainer. I may still check out some of the other videos though. Silverrida, Thanks for your input as well. Thanks even more for putting it into terms I can understand. The reason I don't want to claim to be an evolutionist is because I don't know what it is about. On paper, it sounds like a great idea, but I don't just want to accept it blindly. That'd be just as bad as blind creationists, IMO. And to whoever asked about weird agnostic beliefs. I take the Deistic approach, that way I can have my cake and eat it too
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Post by Joey on May 26, 2010 16:01:58 GMT -5
The problem with teaching both in school lies within the parents. If there was a creation class and a science class, the majority of the parents that go to my school would force their kid to sign up for the creation class. Christianity may make up the majority, but there are also other religions out there who would complain that their beliefs are not taught in school. This would cause a lot of problems. I believe science is best left in school and religions are best left to Sunday School. Well Sunday School/Private School. Right?
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Post by jeradjones on May 26, 2010 16:06:27 GMT -5
The problem with teaching both in school lies within the parents. If there was a creation class and a science class, the majority of the parents that go to my school would force their kid to sign up for the creation class. Christianity may make up the majority, but there are also other religions out there who would complain that their beliefs are not taught in school. This would cause a lot of problems. I believe science is best left in school and religions are best left to Sunday School. Well Sunday School/Private School. Right? Yeah. I use to go to a private school, and ever since 6th grade I've started having my doubts about a god. I know that parents will force you to believe what they want you to believe. They still try to get me to go to church. They've even grounded me for not believing in their god. I felt frustrated for the longest time because they didn't understand "tolerance." It took them almost five years to accept the fact that I was atheist. It's a hard subject to find a solution for, and I hope in the future the world can come to some sort of agreement.
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 26, 2010 16:06:36 GMT -5
I disagree with creationism being taught in schools. The only evidence for it is that some book says it's real. Um.. ok? That doesn't mean it's true. I'm not insulting anyone that believes in creationism, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to teach something which has no real evidence. And in this case, (as in most cases, I would expect), only Christian creationism is being taught, thereby advocating Christianity. I don't even see why they feel like it needs to be taught. Obviously most people there are already Christians, so why learn about it, when they already know all about it?
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Post by Joey on May 26, 2010 16:08:55 GMT -5
I disagree with creationism being taught in schools. The only evidence for it is that some book says it's real. Um.. ok? That doesn't mean it's true. I'm not insulting anyone that believes in creationism, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to teach something which has no real evidence. And in this case, (as in most cases, I would expect), only Christian creationism is being taught, thereby advocating Christianity. I don't even see why they feel like it needs to be taught. Obviously most people there are already Christians, so why learn about it, when they already know all about it? Ok I am just checking but you do mean Public school right? Because I dont think your saying that Private schools shouldnt be allowe to, but Im making sure.
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Post by jmejia1187 on May 26, 2010 16:10:09 GMT -5
I think the video i posted explains it ALL!!! Watch it!
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 26, 2010 16:10:30 GMT -5
Frankly I don't think it should be allowed to be taught to kids even in private school. It's intentionally indoctrinating minors into a proven lie. Why should we allow that?
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Post by chelseeyuh on May 26, 2010 16:11:13 GMT -5
I disagree with creationism being taught in schools. The only evidence for it is that some book says it's real. Um.. ok? That doesn't mean it's true. I'm not insulting anyone that believes in creationism, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to teach something which has no real evidence. And in this case, (as in most cases, I would expect), only Christian creationism is being taught, thereby advocating Christianity. I don't even see why they feel like it needs to be taught. Obviously most people there are already Christians, so why learn about it, when they already know all about it? Ok I am just checking but you do mean Public school right? Because I dont think your saying that Private schools shouldnt be allowe to, but Im making sure. Yeah, private schools can do whatever they want, although I still don't understand why you'd want to teach it to anyone. But the school in the first video was public, right?
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Post by Joey on May 26, 2010 16:12:05 GMT -5
Frankly I don't think it should be allowed to be taught to kids even in private school. It's intentionally indoctrinating minors into a proven lie. Why should we allow that? Freedom of religion. They choose to not get tax dollars, they choose to have a tuition, so why shouldnt they be allowed to teach what they believe?
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Post by jeradjones on May 26, 2010 16:13:42 GMT -5
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Post by jmejia1187 on May 26, 2010 16:14:34 GMT -5
On another note, there are people who think the earth is flat! In 2010!!!! Here is their website: theflatearthsociety.org/cms/They want their views to be taught in school too! Holocaust deniers also want their revision of history taught in schools too! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denialYeah, let us teach creationism with evolution, the earth is flat AND round, and that the holocaust both did and did not happen. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? There is a reason we teach certain things and not others. Evolution is a fact: Just like the earth being round is a fact, as proven by the many satellite pictures. Just like the holocaust happening is a fact as proven by many actual pictures, and the horrific stories, and historical structures and mass graves... I am done here. If anyone wants to refute this pm me...
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Post by Ryan on May 26, 2010 16:36:11 GMT -5
1. Evolution is a scientific theory, it has a lot of evidence that supports it, and is considered to be a fact of life by the scientific community of the world. 2. Creationism IS A RELIGIOUS STORY. I'll say the important part again, ITS A STORY. 3. Creationism might hold some truth, but the story should not be accepted as truth, and should only be read as a story with metaphoric value
Since Creationism is not a necessarily true story, it should most certainly not be taught in ANY science class. It does not matter if it is taught in other classes (history? theology? those would be good places to learn about creationism). But all in all, creationism is simply an idea, its not a theory, its not a fact, it might hold truth, but it's just an idea, and an out-dated one at that.
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