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Post by Flags_Forever on Feb 9, 2011 21:46:35 GMT -5
Quoted from Wikipedia, in the Pearl Harbor bombings, 2,402 people were killed. Also, very few of those 2,402 victims were civilians, as opposed to the bombings, where ALL the victims were civilians.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 9, 2011 21:49:28 GMT -5
Sorry, that last post was ryan. Missed Alex. alex: In essence, yes. Remember how we were at war with them? @lighterside: Refer to my previous post
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 9, 2011 22:54:58 GMT -5
BTW, Aust, you persuaded me for it, but there was one problem I had with it..
Uh.. Didn't Einstein test the A-Bomb? In America? The Gov't may have not cared, which I'm still not sure about, but the Gov't definitely knew what it would do. However, I can see why you say they didn't care.. We thought our first test of A-bombs might set the atmosphere on fire, and destroy Earth..
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 9, 2011 23:28:23 GMT -5
We had only tried it underground in New Mexico
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 9, 2011 23:30:22 GMT -5
Sure, but there was still a risk of the atmosphere catching fire. I wouldn't take that risk.. :/
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 9, 2011 23:40:34 GMT -5
But it'd be a cool way to die. We're getting off topic
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 9, 2011 23:42:13 GMT -5
It's not really off-topic.. We're still talking about WWII and nukes.
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Post by Ryan on Feb 9, 2011 23:45:31 GMT -5
So Zang, by your logic, any country we are war with has the right to kill you, individually, because you are American, and your country is at war.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 9, 2011 23:46:52 GMT -5
Yep
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 9, 2011 23:53:38 GMT -5
I don't think that the intention of most governments that America has been at war with will want to kill you individually. There is one exception I can think of. The Nazis. They might not have the right, but that's not the point. If they want to kill you, they will find a way unless they are stopped. I know Iraq nor Afghanistan would like to kill me individually. I do know that Al Qaeda does want to kill me though. Hmm.. Actually they dont want to kill me.. They want to kill what I stand for by killing me.. This is getting deep.. I don't think we should be in the Middle East.. It's really America's fault though.. We interfered too much.. I'm tired, so if I said something crazy, correct me..
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 9, 2011 23:56:06 GMT -5
Well, let me clarify. We shouldn't just kill civilians to kill civilians. The atom bombs we dropped in World War Two was to prove a point. The point was "enough is enough". They got the message
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 10, 2011 0:00:11 GMT -5
I understand the first bombing. The second one is very debatable. I've heard that Japan said that they didn't care about the first bombing, but I've also heard that we just bombed them to bomb them the second time.
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Post by Ryan on Feb 10, 2011 0:01:17 GMT -5
We could have proven the point by dropping the atom bomb on a rural town or farmland, but we dropped it on a city.
We could have proven the point with just one, but we dropped two. Enough is enough Zang, but there is such a thing as too far. And America crossed a line dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - they did not do it to end a war, but rather to start one. Their actions did not justify the means, only their screwed up reasoning at the time (prove a point). We could have said enough is enough with a regular bomb, but we chose an atom bomb. We could have dropped it on a harbor and killed only 3000 people, but we dropped it on two cities.
Yes, we understand that you think there was a point - but the real point of dropping an atom bomb on Japan WAS NOT to get them to surrender. It was overkill and you know it (at least you should by now as all of your reasons are grasped for and hold no logical reasoning anymore).
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 10, 2011 0:06:41 GMT -5
I think dropping a bomb like a nuke anywhere would be overkill.. I mean you could say 9/11 was "overkill." However it affecte human society greatly. If it was just a plane crash in the middle of a field, they wouldn't get the point across. It was a very sad time for everyone. I think that even the people that attacked us were slightly quiet and not in the mood to do very much at all.. And I think this is true for our nuke on Japan..
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 10, 2011 0:15:00 GMT -5
Ok Ryan, I'm going to agree with you on most of that. It probably would have had the same effect (or is it affect I always forget) in a rural area or harbor. And maybe the second one was an overkill. I still think the first one was needed.
Also, I'm not gonna get into 9/11
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 10, 2011 0:17:24 GMT -5
9/11 isn't the point, Zang. The point is hate and war is overkill. Unfortunately due to it's nature, it cannot be, well, not overkill.
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Post by Freddy on Feb 10, 2011 0:17:32 GMT -5
Even the first one was overkill.
Whatever the reason, there's no excuse for killing that many innocent people.
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Post by SwimFellow on Feb 10, 2011 0:18:15 GMT -5
9/11 isn't the point, Zang. The point is hate and war is overkill. Unfortunately due to it's nature, it cannot be, well, not overkill. War is mostly killing innocent people. It sucks.
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Post by Insane_Zang on Feb 10, 2011 0:26:19 GMT -5
Even the first one was overkill. Whatever the reason, there's no excuse for killing that many innocent people. I see you're a bit late to the party. Please read the whole thread
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Post by krzych32 on Feb 10, 2011 1:19:26 GMT -5
I read few comments and I think that many people here are missing a very important point about war. War is War. Stop looking for morality in war, there is no morality in war. They took this action because it would profit them in one way or another and at the same time demage the enemy, how many people lost their lives is not important.
It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on. -Sun Tzu, the Art of War
We can all agree that Japan started this war, and when one is on a warpath he must accept that all moves become valid.
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