tamc1337
Meteorite
Has anyone seen tamc?...
Posts: 26
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Post by tamc1337 on Mar 28, 2010 13:38:27 GMT -5
I think that words only hold the the value that the people who use them put into them. If the word 'gay' is used in a way that does not use homosexuality in a negative connotation, then i think its acceptable to use.
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Post by stephen5000 on Mar 30, 2010 21:07:13 GMT -5
Fortunately, I don't hang around teenagers, so I don't hear this phrase often. The one time I recall someone using it, one of the people with him immediately corrected him.
Most of the time I consider it not to be individual words, but how they are used as potentially offensive. (Of course, ANY word used as an insult is offensive.)
On the other hand, some words have so much of a negative connotation associated with them that it's hard to consider them to not be offensive. I personally consider "fag" to be one of these words, but really this is particular to the person. I also hate the use of the term "queer" to mean homosexual (or the like), since I see the word as predominately meaning strange or weird, and thus not something I want to associate with homosexuality.
I've also noticed that many people (especially those who are not themselves homosexual) like to refer to homosexuality as a "lifestyle", something I find very offensive.
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Post by surfer2040 on Mar 30, 2010 21:14:31 GMT -5
I say that stuff is gay everyday. I say the word fag almost everyday. I say the word nigger almost everyday. This list goes on and on... If someone is offended by it, then I don't say it. The thing is, if you use gay as an insult, it means you consider being gay a bad thing. And if you are a gay person and you constantly hear people using gay as an insult, you won't be very happy. At least I think you won't. i personally think that being gay is a completly unethical, unnatural and horrible thing to do in our soceity. i think that if someone calls a gay person gay or says fag to them than i think its ok because there expressing there feeling to those people. i dont think i would do that myself because it's rude but gay people shouldnt make a big deal about stating the obvious. |
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 30, 2010 21:16:06 GMT -5
I've also noticed that many people (especially those who are not themselves homosexual) like to refer to homosexuality as a "lifestyle", something I find very offensive. Why? I'm gay and I think that they gay lifestyle is very different from the straight lifestyle. |
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Post by flyingmoosestudios on Mar 30, 2010 21:21:51 GMT -5
Not to bring up a racist issue in this debate, but black people have unoffically made the claim to, "nigger", and in the same way I think gay people have the right to make the claim to, "That's Gay" and can use it as they wish, but anyone else has no business throwing the word around. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of using gay out of context, but I'm not saying I'm proud of those moments.
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Post by stephen5000 on Mar 30, 2010 21:21:57 GMT -5
I've also noticed that many people (especially those who are not themselves homosexual) like to refer to homosexuality as a "lifestyle", something I find very offensive. Why? I'm gay and I think that they gay lifestyle is very different from the straight lifestyle. Ok, this clearly something we disagree about. I see gay people as being almost exactly like straight people, except for the few obvious things. My straight and gay friends act pretty much the same and certainly don't have different lifestyles. |
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Post by zAkAtAk on Mar 30, 2010 21:23:06 GMT -5
Why? I'm gay and I think that they gay lifestyle is very different from the straight lifestyle. Ok, this clearly something we disagree about. I see gay people as being almost exactly like straight people, except for the few obvious things. My straight and gay friends act pretty much the same and certainly don't have different lifestyles. So you are saying that your sample of 2 gay people that you know is enough rationale to make a claim about almost all gay people? You might want to re-evaluate your statistic. |
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Post by stephen5000 on Mar 30, 2010 21:29:40 GMT -5
Ok, this clearly something we disagree about. I see gay people as being almost exactly like straight people, except for the few obvious things. My straight and gay friends act pretty much the same and certainly don't have different lifestyles. So you are saying that your sample of 2 gay people that you know is enough rationale to make a claim about almost all gay people? You might want to re-evaluate your statistic. Well, I'm only commenting on how I see things. Also I didn't specify how many gay or straight people I know. But, nothing I've seen about the world would lead me to think that gay and straight people lead significantly different lifestyles. |
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Post by cadetpewpew on Mar 31, 2010 14:29:49 GMT -5
So you are saying that your sample of 2 gay people that you know is enough rationale to make a claim about almost all gay people? You might want to re-evaluate your statistic. Well, I'm only commenting on how I see things. Also I didn't specify how many gay or straight people I know. But, nothing I've seen about the world would lead me to think that gay and straight people lead significantly different lifestyles. I agree with Zakatak on this one. Being gay is not really exactly the same as straight,not only because of the name calling at school,but solely because you are not like majority of people. And really,it's not that easy,if not impossible finding someone who is comfortable enough with their sexuality at my age. And the other thing is that some people that are not your friends and SHIRT,but know you're gay act all conscientious around you,as if "not to offend" you... it's definitely different,but has its similarities of course. |
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jaw
Moon
Oh yeah!
Posts: 154
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Post by jaw on Apr 1, 2010 17:24:37 GMT -5
Well, using the word "gay" as in describing something you think is stupid, is so common now that I don't think it'll even be used as an insult to homosexuals anymore.
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TsukikoSuoh
Meteor
Slytherin. And proud of it.
Posts: 50
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Post by TsukikoSuoh on Apr 1, 2010 18:14:11 GMT -5
I think its interesting, because 'lame' was an actual scientific and medical designation at one point - but 'fag' and the n-word were both created from other words and used specifically as pejoratives. I'm fine if someone calls something 'gay' but just as long as they know exactly what they're insinuating - that the thing is happy. The N-word I'd give you, but fag was originally a tern for a cigar, sorry. I have no problem with it, though it does make no sense at some points in time. I have no problem with it BECAUSE I 1-cannot control what everyone says, and 2- It's not like it's meant as a personal offense, most of the time. I know it can be offensive, I know many people think it's the 'Ultimate Insult' but it's really not. The power it has concerning how it makes one feel is all up to you. If people stop caring about it, it'll die out for lack of reason to use it. When something loses its value is when people stop using it, so we just need to make it an insignificant insult. I understand that many people will take strong offense to it, but again it's only as powerful as you make it, so if we ignore it it will eventually die out. This is my opinion as a bi-sexual person, seeing as it CAN be directed towards me in a very derogatory manner. PDBAZ! |
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Post by mashuga31 on Apr 1, 2010 22:31:14 GMT -5
Today at my Gay-Straight Alliance meeting, we talked about using the words "gay" and "fag" as insults. I personally am against it, as I know many other people are. But I also know people (both gay and straight) that have no problem with it. So what do you guys think about using "gay" or "fag" as an insult? To me, using those words insinuates that homosexuality is bad. It's pejorative, just like the N word. However, I once heard someone argue that the meanings of words change over time, and it's just something that we have to let happen. The word "lame" used to mean crippled, but now no one takes offense if you call something lame. So, yeah.. What do you think? Do you use these words or get offended if you hear someone using them? (Please excuse the language. I would never had included it unless I was trying to make a point, thank you.) In my opinion people shouldn't get offended when they hear insults like this. To me the word has evolved to have a double meaning (Or in the case of gay a triple meaning.) Now please excuse my use of language but words such as fuck, SHIRT, bastard ect. have been removed from their origin meaning and are simply converted into an insult or a statement. When you say someone is gay, it shouldn't take a form being derogatory towards gay people, it's meaning should just simply be taken as "Insult." Now some insults carry more weight and some are more offensive and I understand that but they shouldn't. The word "Insult" doesn't carry any weight at all when used as one, even though it should. Also if you were to call someone a Taco or a Guitar it also wouldn't carry as much wight as gay simply because it hasn't been split yet to affirm the double meaning. The words gay and lesbian mean the same thing, however calling somebody a lesbian as an insult does not carry any weight as all, in fact it may be considered funny because no one has established that as an insult in society. The next time somebody calls you absolutely any generic insult refer to the triple meaning. 1.Gay = Happy 2.Gay = Having or relating to homosexuality 3.Gay = Generic Insult. Think about it this way. Bitch is an insult towards women (And men who whine a lot which i actually like because it's not singularly derogatory towards women anymore.) and the definition is a female dog. Now, the insult has been used for generations and people rarely use the original term. Bitch has two meaning. When using the meaning as female dog it is not (Or should not) be considered an insult or a cuss word. But, calling somebody a canine, is not a common insult and carries no weight at all. Now, let me take 'Generic insult' for gay and actually define it to show you once and for all that it isn't offensive towards gays. "Mr. Ficht is being gay." Said by my friends after he gave us an incredible amount of homework. Why use the word gay? Why not use any other generic insult such as bitch, prick, or douche? Because in this particular situation he is being unfair, not excessively mean (First two), or acting in a way people would find iriitating or offensive (Last one). "Your gay!" Said to my friend by me, after he was being an Xbox hog at his house and wouldn't let me play. Again, another unfair reference. "That guy is so freaking gay!" Said towards a guy in the background, whom everyone knows is not a homosexual, but is acting similar in behavior to one, thus insulting them. This one is a little different but it isn't insult gays it's actually showing that they are people too. I've seen this used multiple times and it's the most interesting type of insult i've ever seen that uses the word gay to protect gays. This guy who is over there making fun of gays, then gives you the reaction to use the word gay instead of other insults because he is being prejudice towards them. Your not calling him what he is mocking, rather you are calling him out for doing it, using the word gay to make a subconcious point that it's not cool and also referencing that he is in fact acting rude towards the gay community which in turn is unfair to them. The insult 'Gay' means unfair. I'm also pretty sure that when girls use it to describe clothing it means cheesy. Gay people are neither unfair nor cheesy, thus they shouldn't take offense because it LITERALLY has nothing to do with them. Example: My username Mashuga means crazy in yiddish, and tacky in hebrew. However whenever people are actually speaking hebrew or yiddish, or just putting the term in an english sentance doesn't offend me at all. If they were to call me Mashuga (As an insult, not as my name) I would take offense, but only because it is targeted at me. As for the word fag I'm going to make it short, sweet and to the point. It's only derogatory towards gays when the person being insulted is gay. Just like calling black people niggers, chinese chinks, or mexicans spiks. (Although personally I never found being called a greengo or a cracker offensive.) I call my friends niggers all the time. None of them are black. I call them crackers too. I'm white so it doesn't really matter. On a sidenote, i really think racism ins't an issue any more and people who think it is or try to contribute to it are stupid. Racism is a joke now, and thats why the only racism you see is benefactory racism and racism that is in the format of a joke. In short, if it doesn't offend you personally, don't take offense. Is calling someone gay because their being unfair, derogatory towards unfair people? It should be, because their not a minority. Is calling a gay person gay derogatory? no, because thats their lifestyle choice. Is calling a gay person a fag as an insult bad? Yes it is. Is calling someone gay because you think they act like a gay guy and you are trying to insult them then yet it is bad, but the thing is- people don't do that. Look into things before you bring stuff like this up, however i take that back because this was fun, trying to explain my opinion and I also think the the OP is a great person and would never insult her in any way shape or form. She's awesome for bringing this up and it's increased my respect for her to see that she actively takes part in protecting the names of her friends. I suggest that activeley as a community we make a 5th meaning for the word gay and turn it into a compliment. Any suggestions as to what it would mean? |
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Post by mashuga31 on Apr 1, 2010 22:58:22 GMT -5
I also hate the use of the term "queer" to mean homosexual (or the like), since I see the word as predominately meaning strange or weird, and thus not something I want to associate with homosexuality. I've always taken the word queer to mean a "Male" homosexual and lesbian as a "female." Gay being the Hypernym. Think of it this way, queer is a heteronym (HAHA THAT IS SO IRONIC! sorry i just had to point that out.) A heteronym is a word that is the same spelling and pronunciation as a different word. Queer 1 - Something Strange Queer 2 - Male Homosexual EXACTLY the same as Row 1 - A line of something Row 2 - To push a boat using an oar Now have you ever associated rows of soccer balls, or a row of sandwiches with rowing a boat? It might take enhanced comprehension skills to move past this whole 'Derogatory' stint that mankind seems to have set itself on but maybe its time for everyone to move on. No it's not derogatory towards queers (I am very comfortable using that word because that is simply the term. If Gay males were called roses then I would refer to them as such to be more specific). I think the whole issue is stupid. Some people in the world are dicks but you can't get hung up on it. Now if they go and threaten you that's different, but is taking something out of context or mixing definitions really a way to settle this once and for all.? I've also noticed that many people (especially those who are not themselves homosexual) like to refer to homosexuality as a "lifestyle", something I find very offensive. This sentence angers me greatly (Although I will be polite ((To an extent)) about it). First off it's just stupid. Why the hell is it not a lifestyle? Being a gamer is a lifestyle, so is going to this forum. Being a jock is a lifestyle and so is being a slut or being a virgin. Now tell me, why isn't being gay a lifestyle? This is a serious non rhetorical question stephen5000. I want to know why I'm suddenly offensive because I refer to gay as a lifestyle. You know there are people who hate gamers, jocks, forum-goers and the like. They have their own special emotional ties, goals, and such. They aspire to related things and enjoy what they do, just like Gays. It changes their lives unlike the lives of other people who do different things, just like Gays. Now tell me, *calm tome and serious interested question* why is Gay not a lifestyle and why in the bloody hell would it offend you? (Looking forward to see what you have to say Stephen =) ) |
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Post by mashuga31 on Apr 1, 2010 23:04:24 GMT -5
I think its interesting, because 'lame' was an actual scientific and medical designation at one point - but 'fag' and the n-word were both created from other words and used specifically as pejoratives. I'm fine if someone calls something 'gay' but just as long as they know exactly what they're insinuating - that the thing is happy. The N-word I'd give you, but fag was originally a tern for a cigar, sorry. I have no problem with it, though it does make no sense at some points in time. I have no problem with it BECAUSE I 1-cannot control what everyone says, and 2- It's not like it's meant as a personal offense, most of the time. I know it can be offensive, I know many people think it's the 'Ultimate Insult' but it's really not. The power it has concerning how it makes one feel is all up to you. If people stop caring about it, it'll die out for lack of reason to use it. When something loses its value is when people stop using it, so we just need to make it an insignificant insult. I understand that many people will take strong offense to it, but again it's only as powerful as you make it, so if we ignore it it will eventually die out. This is my opinion as a bi-sexual person, seeing as it CAN be directed towards me in a very derogatory manner. PDBAZ! The N Word was actually created to refer to black people. Originally neutral, but it grew to be unacceptable for some reason. I also heard it meant lazy but i don't think thats right... =P |
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Post by stephen5000 on Apr 2, 2010 1:43:50 GMT -5
mashuga31 wanted me to explain why I consider referring to homosexuality as a lifestyle as offensive, so I will do so here.
First we have to define what homosexuality means. There are three main definitions:
1. an identity
2. the romantic and/or sexual attraction to a member of the same sex and/or gender
3. engaging in sexual actions with a member of the same sex and/or gender
Now the first two are clearly not lifestyles. The third can be a contribution to a lifestyle, but is not one in and of itself. A lifestyle is (according to dictionary.com) the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.
To justify calling being gay a lifestyle, gay people would have to engage in many similar life practices. However, I would argue that the lives of gay people are too diverse to make that judgment. You could also justify calling being gay a lifestyle is if one's life revolved around having gay sex, which is far from the case for most gay people.
The reason I find calling being gay a lifestyle so offensive, is that I generally think of being gay as definition 2 above (and possibly definition 1) and as a small part of who someone is. Saying someone has a gay lifestyle implies that being gay dominates your whole life and that it is the most important thing about you, as seen by someone else. It also brings to mind the "lives" of gay stereotypes. For the same reasons I hate it when people use "gay" as a noun. "Gay" is an aspect of who we are; it is not who we are and it is not our whole life.
Also, "gay lifestyle" has traditionally often been paired with the word "choice". The association brings up bad feelings.
That leads me to respond to some of your other comments, mashuga31. Many of the insults we've discussed above have negative connotations associated with them. While we can take the usage of the word as being a separate definition, and thus a separate word, from its negative meaning, it is often difficult to do so, especially if the nature of the insult is personal to you.
Also, I think I should note that while it may not be as explicit as it was in the past, racism is still widespread in the world today, and still affects people's lives.
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Post by mashuga31 on Apr 2, 2010 2:22:08 GMT -5
Well stated.  I do however still feel that negative comments towards gays obviously is bad. Bu people should be free to use the word gay in the alternate definition simply for the reason, that not too many people these days would rather say "That's unfair" than "That's gay." Saying "That's gay" is also a statement of the individual who has said it's lifestyle. The dialect of our language we use is always changing and is always taking and adding words to and from it. I'd also like to bring up the point that while you have a valid argument as to why gay is not a lifestyle, you contradict yourself by finding it offensive to call it a lifestyle, assuming that you are ok with people being gay. If you take being gay as the definitions 1 and 2 then turn around and be offended when people call those two definitions a lifestyle (which by definition your right it's not.) either way you are saying that your offended by gays loving their fellow man/woman and being okay with their identity. I'm fairly confident that's not what you meant though lol. I believe i can make a connection between gay and lifestyle. All gays interact with eachother in that way. Otherwise they wouldn't be gay. Now lets take for example - all gamers play video games. Simple enough. Now we are going to add another aspect into that. Community, organization and friendship. The gamer, will typically go out and find people that like and respect him for who he is, same for the gay. When they interact with people in society does it not affect their life? Right now, gays are dedicating their time in order for it to be okay to be gay. They are fighting for the respect and dignity that the gamer has. Gay people have gay friends, and friends who support gays. Gay people participate in Gay interactions and as the OP said, certain gays will go to a Gay - Straight Alliance meeting or something like that. Going to something like this every Thursday or whatnot does indeed affect your life. Let's take a look at another lifestyle choice- the emo. most emos will cut themselves in secrecy. A lot of gays will try and hide the fact that they are gay. Emos are sailing in the same boat as gays as in sometimes, people will look at them and say, it isn't right to be emo. Finally, lets look at a lifestyle choice that most people overlook. Marriage. Seriously it is. When you marry someone and have a family, that is what your life revolves around. You can't go out and do other lifestyles because this is yours now. Gays can get married, and when they do it's a normal marriage except for one BIG detail. They're gay. This means that their life is completely different from any average joe. Instead of being like guy #1 and marrying marie and having beautiful daughter julie, Guy #2 is gay, goes off to marry Stan and has to adopt a child. This alters thier life. Guy# 2 and stan's love is the same as any other couple in the world but they are guys, which also changes their life dramatically. Husband and wife don't typically go bunjee jumping together or maybe do xtreme sports. Husband and wife cannot walk into the same bathroom together and share a moment in public. Gays lead a different kind of life, both gay men and gay women, than normal people or people with different lifestyles. Thus, it has to be a lifestyle. |
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Post by nowinterweather on Apr 2, 2010 8:13:39 GMT -5
i personally dont use it as an insult, but i know people who do. i ask them about it, and have found that most have nothing against gays. they just use it as an insult because other people do. in my opinion, most people who use gay as an insult are zombies.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Apr 2, 2010 8:42:37 GMT -5
Guy #2 is gay, goes off to marry Stan and has to adopt a child. This alters thier life. Guy# 2 and stan's love is the same as any other couple in the world but they are guys, which also changes their life dramatically.quote] I just got to say when I first read this over, I thought you said Satan instead of Stan and I was about to get super pissed. One thing you forgot to mention is that gay peolpe don't really have a choice. You can choose to be a gamer; you can get help if you're emo, but you can't really fix or change gay. |
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Post by mashuga31 on Apr 2, 2010 18:28:00 GMT -5
Actually i've always thought of gaming as choosing me. I couldn't just put down the controller and never play again. I'm not sure how the emo feels, but for me gaming isn't really a decision: it's part of me.
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Post by zAkAtAk on Apr 2, 2010 19:42:51 GMT -5
OK, so let me be a fag then.
lol
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